PT Coleman Trebor could have potentially ended the Clone Wars?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Jordan1Kenobi, Oct 5, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Moderators: Bazinga'd
  1. Kenneth Morgan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 27, 1999
    star 4
    Sorry, for a minute I thought the title of this thread was "Coleman Francis could have potentially ended the Clone Wars?"

    Flag on Geonosis. How did it get there?
    Last edited by Kenneth Morgan, Oct 6, 2012
    Jordan1Kenobi likes this.
  2. CircaCitadel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Sidious would have found someone temporary. Because he was planning on taking Dooku out eventually anyway. Anakin was going to be the replacement all along.

    He probably could have just stuck with Grievous for awhile and Ventress.
    Jordan1Kenobi likes this.
  3. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    No. If Dooku had been able to defeat Anakin, Palpatine wouldn't stop him from being killed. Survival of the fittest.
  4. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Not according to the RoTS novel, and the last part of Labyrinth of Evil- in that, Dooku's instructions were specifically not to kill Anakin- but to push him into falling (by killing Kenobi).

    If he'd been able to defeat Anakin easily, then yes, Palpatine might have written Anakin off as an apprentice. But there are strong hints that Palpatine's been cultivating Anakin for a long time- and considers Dooku to be a temporary placeholder until Anakin's ready.
    Jordan1Kenobi likes this.
  5. Jordan1Kenobi Host of EUC Battle of... Games

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    Exactly, Palpatine starting watching Anakin since he was a child in TPM before Dooku was even his apprentice.
  6. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    That said, in Darth Plagueis, the two of them (Palpatine and his own master) had been watching Dooku for a while- and saw he was on the brink of leaving the Jedi Order.

    Dooku left right after TPM (having decided that "if one more Jedi dies because of political scheming in the Republic- he'll leave and never look back"). The death of Qui-Gon was what convinced him.

    Palpatine promptly recruited him, sent him to murder Sifo-Dyas, erase Kamino from the archives- and dispatch Jango to Kamino to be cloned.

    Dooku was "of interest" to Palpatine, for his plans, before he even knew of Anakin. But once he knew- Anakin's corruption became the long-term goal, over and above making use of Dooku.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Oct 12, 2012
  7. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    But according to George (or at least his feedback), which is more relevant to this part of the forum.

    That doesn't deny anything. Of course he sees potential in Anakin, but Dooku wasn't a mere placeholder. If Anakin hadn't live up to Palpatine's expectations, he would rule the Empire with Dooku.
    Last edited by Alexrd, Oct 12, 2012
  8. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    When did he say that the fight between Anakin & Dooku was simply "survival of the fittest"? Labyrinth of Evil, as the immediate prequel to RoTS, had more Lucas input than is usual for an EU book- so if it states that Dooku was under orders to provoke Anakin into rage- leading him into corruption- rather than to kill him- it seems reasonable to take this seriously.

    Novelizations are more likely to include stuff Lucas "wanted, but couldn't fit into a short movie".
  9. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    I'm saying the way of the Sith is "survival of the fittest". If Dooku had proven to be better than Anakin, who would you think would be at Palpatine side at the formation of the Empire?

    First, we don't know the extent of Lucas input in the novel. Second, if you want to go with the novel as a source, here's an excerpt that proves my point:

    "He had no doubt that Skywalker would fall. Dooku understood this was more than a test for Skywalker; though Sidious had never said so directly, Dooku was certain that he himself was being tested as well. Success today would show his Master that he was worthy of the mantle of Mastery himself.".
  10. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    Source?

    It's said in the Official Fact File #106 that Dooku was too busy monitoring the battle below that he was caught unaware by Trebor, thus Fett shot him - Dooku didn't know he was coming. So yes, he could have changed the outcome of the or potentially ended there and then.
    Jordan1Kenobi likes this.
  11. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    There is no source, it's my opinion. He was defeated by Jango, and Dooku was able to hold his own against Yoda. And I've already explained my stance before:

    It's not like Dooku could have been easily defeated. Palpatine wouldn't have chosen/trained an apprentice like that.
    Last edited by Alexrd, Oct 13, 2012
  12. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    But at the end of the fight- Dooku realises that he's the one that fell into the trap- that his master never had any intention of using him long-term- and that everything was built up to this- just to be victim of Anakin's first cold-blooded murder.

    In The Clone Wars: Wild Space - Palpatine's musings include that Dooku is "just a placeholder" as well.
  13. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Again, Palpatine had great confidence in Anakin's power. But if he had been defeated by Dooku, you could bet that Palpatine would keep him as his apprentice since he had proven himself.
  14. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    Exactly. Although Dooku had political clout, he like anyone else, would have been replaceable. I'm sure Palpatine had someone else lined up to take his place -- maybe another disgruntled Jedi Knight.
    Jordan1Kenobi likes this.
  15. CircaCitadel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Yeah, Palpatine had been watching Anakin since he arrived. I'm sure that he could sense how strong he was in the Force just as the Council did. He just needed an apprentice for the time being. Why else would he let himself get captured by Dooku and Grievous? He knew Anakin was stronger than Dooku.

    And no, I have no source. That's just what I've gathered.
    Jordan1Kenobi likes this.
  16. Jordan1Kenobi Host of EUC Battle of... Games

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    And that is correct, Dooku and Grievous were just there for the time being, until Anakin was old enough for Palpatine to start convincing him to join the dark side. And he needed to get rid of Dooku, Grievous, Ventress, Maul and Savage some how first so he could rule the galaxy with just one very strong apprentice.
  17. Zer0 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    I really don't think striking Dooku down would've been so simple. Not paying attention or not, all he had to do was lift his hand and fill Trebor with Lightning.
  18. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Or just block the attacks with his own lightsaber.
Moderators: Bazinga'd
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.