Senate College: Free Exchange of Ideas or Indoctrination for the Left?

Discussion in 'Community' started by J-Rod, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. J-Rod Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
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    Right-leaning opinions seem to fire people up on these boards. And I understand that most of you hold degrees of varying levels. Can this be a coincidence?

    Does being educated simply lead to "progressive" thought? Is it a natural extension of an education? Or are our young and impressionable children being lead to a certain way of thinking? To certain conclusions that they wouldn't otherwise come to?

    Why can Micheal Moore speak on a campus and not be harassed while Ann Coulter gets a pie thrown at her? Aren't each equally toxic and venomous?

    Chick_fil_A can't be on campus?? http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016...another-american-university.html?intcmp=hpbt4

    And students don't want to hear opposing viewpoints. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/02/u...tic-oklahoma-college-president-says.html?_r=0

    Why is that?

    And what ever happened to campuses being places to push boundaries? http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/08/jerry-seinfeld-politically-correct-college-campuses

    That seems to have gone by the wayside. Along with free speech. Allowing colleges to set the thoughts unopposed.
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  2. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 10
    You're conflating two separate issues.

    1) Chick-fil-a gives money for speech, as a function of its corporate charter. As a private company, it is subject to freedom to practice it's religion from government interference, not from protest, or anyone else exercising their free rights in the country.

    2) Conversely, I do think there is something to the safe space / trigger warning / college campuses lacking freedom of independent viewpoints in aggregate but that an evangelical college complaining about not respecting the viewpoints of others forced to listen to an on-campus sermon is probably not the hill to die on here.

    EDIT: also...

    Last edited by dp4m, Feb 23, 2016
  3. Boba_Fett_2001 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 8
    LOL oh man....
  4. J-Rod Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 6
    I reposted this in The Senate. I messed up. LOL
  5. FatBurt Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 6
    A good College/University will encourage debate and discussion of idea's. Just like a good scientist will happily allow his conclusions to be tested for their validity.

    Being educated and the process of being educated encourages you to be inquisitive and open minded. Fact are facts but challenging and questioning them is valid as once those facts stand up to the challenge then they become an accepted truth.

    If however you are taught without being given the chance to question/challenge or test, you will never truly learn the ability to be inquisitive and open minded.

    Anecdote alert..... The most closed minded people I have ever come across are the ones who are so certain they are right. They are also the ones who find it hardest to deal with being questioned or back up their statements. They are the ones most often proven wrong by the majority but also the ones least likely to change their stance even when presented with a mountain of evidence.




    I don't like the idea of "Safe Spaces" in Colleges/University. All ideas should be challenged and once you get into the dark hazy world of adulthood there are no safe spaces, college/university is the place oyu learn how to deal with these challenges in a controlled environment.

    But that's just my humble opinion
  6. Chancellor_Ewok Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    And no, its not fair to compare Michael Moore and Anne Coulter. The difference between being a liberal and a conservative is that liberals are open to and accepting of change, while conservatives want things to stay exactly as they are forever, which is a non-viable philosophical framework because everything changes over time.
  7. Boba_Fett_2001 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 8
    You can ask a mod to change the tag on your thread. If you went to college you would've known this.
  8. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms

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    There are many, many highly educated fiscal conservatives here, with degrees in economics or business.

    Nothing to do with the type of chicken sandwich the food court served at the food court.
  9. tom Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 7
    itt a campus decides not to serve chicken sandwiches, a bible school student is sad and and probably sheltered and a little weird, and jerry seinfeld "hears colleges are too pc".

    great sources j-rod. you're definitely right on the cusp of uncovering the truth behind that nefarious left indoctrination plot.
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  10. Lord Vivec Force Ghost

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    Apr 17, 2006
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  11. PRENNTACULAR VIP

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    Dec 21, 2005
    star 6
    I don't think it's a coincidence that most of the smart, educated people tend to be progressive, in almost every field.
  12. Todd the Jedi Mod and Soliloquist of SWTV

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  13. Chancellor_Ewok Jedi Grand Master

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    The smartest, best educated people seem to be the most compassionate as well. I doubt that that's a coincidence either.
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  14. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
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    J-Rod I think part of the issue is that social conservatism is inherently driven by its reactionary status and so it absolutely provides shelter to people who are generally less educated and more inherently sceptical/fearful of change.

    I am quite liberal in the proper sense of the term - so, centrist, socially and economically progressive, in favour of a free society, free press, free market, and social equity and equality (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism). It was at university that I discovered JS Mill and the ideas which have shaped my philosophy.

    By relaying this I hope to add illustrative context. I was already interested in learning. I have a diploma, a Bachelors and a Masters degree. I'm comparatively highly educated (by qualification alone, I mean - in quantitative terms, I make no judgements of a qualitative nature).

    These two factors - liberalism as a general opponent to conservatism (and a buffer against outright socialism or Marxism) and as someone who is generally not fearful of change, I'm never going to find myself at home with right wing ideas though I voted for the conservative party here and would support David Cameron over Jeremy Corbyn in the UK.

    Your implication here seems like university education automatically leads to Bolshevism, which is false. The left here (and you have actual left vs US left, which is much more centrist) would not call me one of their own. Yet nor would you say I am sympathetic to your political views.

    Tertiary education encourages one to think, to research, and to consider a wide range of options and opinions. Conservatism doesn't. It cannot be a surprise that the educated conservative is not into the same kind of chest thumping nationalism as the non-educated one, nor that more educated people favour more inclusive worldviews.
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  15. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms

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    Regarding "safe spaces": I don't agree with safe spaces regarding IDEAS either (sexual harassment, a big problem on college campuses, is another issue).

    But that also means that bigots do not get a "safe space" from reactions to their ideas.
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  16. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
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    If that was only so.... It's very strange but when I now hear the term 'conservative' I immediately ask myself how they intend to re-invent the wheel badly. Why? For the entirety of my lifetime supposedly 'conservative' politicians have ripped up, changed greatly, blasted away - frankly done anything but stick with the status quo their name says they will.

    At the same time, their political and individual outlook now tends to be of the dog-eat-dog, look-out-for-no.1-screw-everyone-else and they are mystified as to why that is not universally appealing. (In this respect Cameron really did have a rare opportunity to re-invent the Conservatives in 2010, as there was a new generation of voters open to them, he didn't take it, so the Tories are back to being known as the nasty party.)

    Maybe it's different in the US but my university experience was being encouraged to expand my outlook, learn how to research and then argue a case in essay form. Contrary to what many think, there's nothing easy about essay-writing and I only really mastered it a couple of times in a lot of attempts. I'm never going to be able to go along with an outlook that says look out for yourself above all else because I have been helped, without it I'd never have got anywhere, so I'm obliged to help others in turn.
  17. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
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    Part of the issue though is that you do get a handful of loud, slightly annoying types who do shout down dissenting viewpoints rather than engaging them but that's not a majority. Was it Germaine Greer who had regressive views abouts trans people? She was basically barred from any speaking engagement on a campuses as a result. Why not engage and persuade her? Why create an echo chamber? It's as bad as going to the Oral Roberts bible school and only hearing Oral (seriously, America. Stoo it) talk about Jesus.

    In any event I'm sure we'll get personal anecdotes about Texas Wesleyan college, sorority sisters, Mrs Fitzgerald and jealous hooters girls that have nothing to do with the topic very shortly .
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  18. Chancellor_Ewok Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
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    Which means they either have to learn how to actually defend their point of view or, more likely, abandon it.
  19. Lord Vivec Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 8
    There is no nefarious plot by the left to suppress ideas the 'Big Left' disagrees with. What we're seeing instead are groups of college students that are unable to handle ideas they disagree with and get vocally belligerent or violent towards people who speak those ideas out loud. The sad thing is that this is something one generally sees on the right.
  20. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
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    I learned much more about different ways of thinking (and seeing) than I did about what to think, or about any kind of ideological agenda.
  21. Adam of Nuchtern Jedi Master

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    Dead dove, do not eat.
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  22. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Observations?
    1. The right once had highly educated advocates like William F. Buckley, Jr. His frequent use of polysyllabic words puts the lie to the notion that education ensures a left wing outcome.

    2. The growing intolerance of different viewpoints on college campuses is something worth talking about, but it's not a result of "indoctrination" so much as a bully mentality among those who suggest they're actually anti-bully.

    3. Freedom of speech means freedom to express ideas, but not protection or insulation from criticism of those ideas.
    Last edited by GrandAdmiralJello, Feb 23, 2016
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  23. Luigi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2006
    star 4
    I am struggling to understand how a young adult is more susceptible to indoctrination than an actual child being indoctrinated by their parents (e.g. church camps, homeschooling, refusing to allow professionals to teach them sex ed, etc.).
    Last edited by Luigi, Feb 23, 2016
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  24. Darth Guy Chosen One

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    Aug 16, 2002
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    1. Someone who's probably never taken a single college course criticizes colleges for being "indoctrination for the Left." News at 11.

    2. In the United States all you need to do is step inside a business or economics course as well as a good number of criminal justice and law courses.just to see how "left" colleges really are. And I doubt math and science courses are big on political leanings either way-- most of those students can barely even write, so how can they express political opinions?

    3. Ann Coulter and Michael Moore are not equivalent. It's fine to criticize him, but he doesn't preach hatred of people for their religion, color of their skin, sex, poverty, etc.

    4. Of course the President of the University of Oklahoma calls student protesters "narcissistic." He probably disagrees with them. Campus administrators tend to have a problem with anyone who raises a stink.

    5. **** Chik-Fil-A. Why shouldn't campuses be able to choose which businesses they allow?

    6. Jerry Seinfeld is an out of touch rich old white guy and doesn't understand what he's talking about. Old man yells at cloud, basically.
    Last edited by Darth Guy, Feb 23, 2016
  25. slightly_unhinged Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2014
    star 4
    Chicken makes you weak. Makes absolute sense to remove the wretched stuff and replace it with real meat.

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
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  26. Luigi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2006
    star 4
    Real meat gives you cancer.