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Senate College: Free Exchange of Ideas or Liberals Cancelling Chicken Sandwiches?

Discussion in 'Community' started by J-Rod, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. GregMcP

    GregMcP Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2015
    She's doing "Arts", which is pretty much anything you like. I am grateful that we don't have an American loans system here in Australia and I am not getting a $100K debt out if this.
     
    Rogue1-and-a-half likes this.
  2. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    [face_laugh]
     
  3. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001

    "Arts" is not "pretty much anything you like," although I recognize that what's true in the U.S. may not be true elsewhere. Having said that, are we talking fine arts, or something closer to "liberal arts"?
     
  4. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    I think we all recognize that when we think about it but it does have a little kernel of truth for some Fine Arts majors. It sounded funny to me how he wrote it nonchalantly.
     
  5. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    In what way? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but I'd like to see you expand on this.
     
  6. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001

    Some I've known have taken forvever to graduate. It's very difficult to tanslate for students how arts = a career sometimes. It take a special group of faculty to do it well and to make the students feel confident that what they are doing is self enriching and will also have a future payoff. That's also why he said it was a good thing he didn't have to worry about the U.S. loan system else he'd run up a 100k. [face_laugh]
     
  7. Penguinator

    Penguinator Former Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    College is a magical place where young people can interact with ideas. A lot of those ideas are really only great in theory, but some of them, like "don't be racist," "don't be sexist," and "hey, student loans are ********" are pretty valid.
     
  8. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    That's not necessarily a problem, however. I would ask why they took "forever" to graduate. What did they do after graduation? Not just immediately, but within five years. It doesn't have to be within the arts-- a lot of art-based people go into other fields and do well off their different perspective.
     
  9. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    Yes, but the question is whether they might've done just as well with a much more abbreviated course of study.
     
  10. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Oh yes I agree. That's part of the challenge of giving people an idea about why their career prospects are positive.
     
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  11. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001

    I disagree that it's "the" question. I think it's a legitimate question, but it's not above and beyond any others.
     
  12. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    I've always adhered to the idea that you go to college, first and foremost, to learn how to think. After that, you learn specific skills. But if you want skills without learning how to move through the world in a thoughtful and intelligent fashion, there are technical schools. But then for some jobs, the ability to reason and think critically is actually a handicap. If you go to college and end up just regurgitating the ideas and philosophies of your teachers, it's not working properly. Both the classes/interactions with teachers & the broadened cultural surroundings of the social life have the same goal at the end of the day: making you examine your preconceived notions about the world and the world itself with more thoughtfulness. Some of the notions you come into college with, you keep, which a lot of people seem to think isn't the case. I changed my mind about a lot of things in college, but my opinions about some things remained or, in some instances, even strengthened themselves. College is only indoctrination if that's what you're looking for.
     
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  13. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    An Arts degree here, KnightWriter, is a degree with very little job prospects attached.

    You can specialise literally in the arts; in political science; in history; in English lit, etc.
     
  14. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001

    Job prospects in anything at all, or prospects in the arts specifically? In the U.S., those with fine arts backgrounds are increasingly in demand, as corporations and other organizations seek more people who think outside the main boxes of the past several decades.
     
  15. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    No, in general. Our education system is a lot more mercantile than yours.
     
  16. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    I'm not sure I know what that means.
     
  17. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    it means they hoard gold and sit on it because they haven't discovered proper capitalism yet
     
  18. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    I'm trying in a polite and euphemistic way to castigate our approach to tertiary education which is basically go study this narrow field and work in that narrow field.

    Want to be a lawyer? Enrol in a law degree, where you will only study law. No languages, mathematics, humanities etc.

    It's really quite limiting. The best way around it is to do an arts/law combined double degree and take 5 years to graduate.
     
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  19. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001

    I could be mistaken, but I think the narrow approach is gradually on its way out (at least here). If not with actual schooling, then on the job market.
     
  20. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    I thought at least in your first year, maybe second, you have an actual education rather than a series of academic attempts to instruct you in a career?
     
  21. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Bachelor's degrees tend to have significant general education requirements that students tend to take in their first two years, yes, and given my own experience with them I'm highly supportive of that approach.
     
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  22. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001

    I think we may be talking about different things. I was just attempting to say that the narrow pathway to a successful career via one specific degree may be closing down, or not be as successful as it was in the past. Getting an MBA, or law degree, or any number of other graduate degrees, may not be enough anymore. Better to have a versatile educational background, perhaps including degrees that don't necessarily seem like they have a lot to do with each other. Not necessarily, but I don't think it's looked at as being a problem.

    I think what I'm saying is that tailoring your education for one specific outcome may not be enough, or advisible.
     
  23. LostOnHoth

    LostOnHoth Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2000
    Yes double degrees are the way to go if you want a more rounded education by having a broad range of subjects in your first degree to balance the law subjects you will have to do in your law degree. I did a double Social Sciences/Law degree and the Social Sciences bit allowed me to do sociology, pol sci, economics, law etc. Having said that law degrees are being seen more and more as a 'general' degree for people who have no intention of practising law but find it a useful thing to have on a transcript.
     
    Ender Sai likes this.
  24. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    You mean, "law degrees are increasingly the degree of choice by half the grad intake at PwC, KPMG et al"?
     
  25. MarcusP2

    MarcusP2 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 2004
    "Law degrees are increasingly the degree of choice for universities who view law schools as the ability to extract huge funds from the government"?

    My uni loved me, I have a law/engineering double. It was actually mandated that you had to do a double degree to do law at my uni to avoid this problem.