College Students Too PC?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Lord Bane, Jul 15, 2002.

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  1. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    It is easy for you to say that about pakistan, but i doubt you would make the same assumption on german culture. It is the fact that pakistan is so alien to you that you think this way. I have had the opportunity to know many pakistanis in my life and they most certainly did not treat their women that way. Lets not forget how many women get beaten in the USA. You cant judge an entire culture by the actions of a few.
  2. JediLord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2000
    star 4
    You are misssing the point. i am not talking about all pakistanians or even just one. i am talking about their GOVERNMENT, which endorses the gangrape of a woman for something she didn't even do!

    I am talking about how pakistanians treat their wives, I am talking about how can anyone justify this state sponsered rape? It has nothing to do with me not knowing their culture. it has to do with it being cruel and inhumane.

    Yes, I am aware that men in the U.S beat their wives. Guess what? They get arrested for it. Why? B/C it is ILLEGAL here. That was a sentence handed down by a council. Am the only one who sees the difference?
  3. Ardens_Furore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
  4. AJA Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 1998
    star 4
    Eh...unless I'm mistaken, the incident in question was not sanctioned by the government of Pakistan, but was rather the action of a local tribal warlord in a remote region of the country, and those involved were arrested by the Pakistani authorities.

    There's nothing like people getting violently enraged over false information.
  5. Darkside_Spirit Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 3
    What is "Muslim culture"? You do realise that there are many Muslims who live in the west and have presumably adapted to Western culture, don't you?
  6. shds Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2000
    star 2
    "I am talking about how pakistanis treat their wives..."

    How do Pakistanis treat their wives?
  7. JediLord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2000
    star 4
    I am sorry. i meant to say that I am NOT talking about how pakistanis treat their wives. That is not the issue.

    And yes, I am aware of that Muslims have adapted. This is not about Muslim culture. Stop amking it about it.

    And even if it was a remote warlord, thsi happens all the time. Women are circumcised there against their will. Before you say that we do the same to men, we do it whne they are babies, they do it when they are older and for different reasons.
  8. shds Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2000
    star 2
    ok.

    " And even if it was a remote warlord, this happens all the time. Women are circumcised there against their will."

    You are right. This takes place in Pakistani tribal culture fairly frequently. The only reason why this particular case made headlines was because it was ordered by a [illegal] tribal council. This all has to do with tribal "honor" etc etc. In pre-Islamic Arabia, the Arab tribes used to bury their female children alive because of the "shame" of having females and not males. Which reminds me to ask that people should make a clear distinction between tribal culture and Islamic culture. This type of thing has absolutely no sanction in Islam and those who perpetrated it would probably be given a penalty of death by stoning.

    As for the question of which culture is superior. I would think that "Islamic culture" is superior to both "Eastern culture" and "Western culture."
  9. JediLord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2000
    star 4
    Now, i know all the facts, i understand. But, i still do no believe that their way of life is better. You can say that here, but over there if you said the USA is better, you could be killed or aressted. that makes the difference for me.
  10. sharkdawg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2000
    star 4
    "You can say that here, but over there if you said the USA is better, you could be killed or aressted. that makes the difference for me."


    You are correct.
  11. bedada3 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2002
    star 4
    Liberal - as opposed to what? Constricted, stingy, possessive?

    I'd say most universities in the USA have become PC. IE, if you're a heterosexual white male, either you commot a hate crime and rape women, or you shut up and let the minorities talk about you.
  12. LUH-3417 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2001
    star 4
    waaaayyyy too PC.

    seriously, you know that PC is out of control when liberals care more about wooing the illegal immigrants in this country than taking care of the regular tax paying workers.
  13. chibiangi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2002
    star 4
    Agreed, LUH. Come on over to the immigration thread.
  14. jiabaoyu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2000
    star 3

    i made no generalization about eastern cultures. I was talking about Pakistan and any who condone such treatment of women.


    If that is your reason for believing that Western culture is "superior" to eastern culture, then that is a very poor reason for it.

    Perhaps a better analogy for the atrocious treatment meted out to the Pakistani women would be the numerous lynchings suffered by blacks at the hands of their fellow citizens who believed it was their Christian duty to "put blacks in their place". Do you believe that is reflective of the "inferiority" of American culture?

    Like the Pakistani women's case, the lynchings were not state sanctioned, yet it received widespread local support. Does that make Southern American culture 'bad'? Is that reflective of the inferiority of the Christian religion?

    Cultures are not the same has governments and local practices. I could say that Western culture is inferior for all the fatty foods that Westerners seem to ingest. It's obvious that overeating---and eating junk foods---are bad, why do you do it? It must be the bad culture. :)

    Or I could say sorry state of math and science education in Western schools reflects an inferior academic (Western) culture.

    But are those things reflective of the general culture? Do these things make the culture bad? inferior?

    To me, culture consists of languages, literature, and a set of moral beliefs....and I don't believe I know any major religion (Islam included) or set of beliefs that would call for the treatment of the Pakistani women that you had described.

    To judge "eastern culture" by a remote village's treatment of its women would be to judge Western culture by the Holocuast---how's that for state sanctioned atrocity?


    But look at this: most people flee from oppressive cultures and come to the Us or Europe. Now, these people would be qualified to make a judgement as to which is superior. i wonder what they would say>?


    Well, my parents came over to this country from China...and they will unevokably tell you that Chinese culture is superior to any other culture (including Western culture). And I don't know many first generation Chinese immigrant who would disagree. They believe America has a better system of government, which offers them economic opportunities not afforded to them in their native land. My parents, like the majority of immigrants, didn't come because they understood the "superiority" of Western culture. They came because of better economic opportunities....which they do not equate with a superior culture.

    So, those college students who right, IMO, about not believing in the superiority of western culture. They did not state the inferiority of western culture to eastern culture, merely that western culture was not better.

    To me, comparing cultures is like comparing two works of art....it's completely subjective and dependent on the viewpoint your bring with you, to say one is superior to the other would only make it...your opinion.

    Just my two cents. :)

  15. MarvinTheMartian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2002
    star 5
    Being heavily involved in student politics, I can assure you that about 80% of university students are left wing or liberals or socialists.

    The entire student association is just one hell of a PC institution in its own right. There is even a clause in the consitution that says there must be a certain ratio of homosexual, indigenous and female students represented on the council.

    This is generally a phase with young students. Most of the students in question come from reasonably well off families, thus they have everything paid fro them by their parents, and don't fully appreciate money. Quite a few grow up into conservative voters, and call their left-wing days the 'university experiment' LOL
  16. jiabaoyu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2000
    star 3
    Colleges do tend to be liberal, but that's always where new ideas are fermented and/or discussed. I believe, because colleges tend to foster a global perspective on things, it does tend to err on the side of liberalism, but only because it shows another side to the argument.

    Some of the new ideas are discarded, others are not, and since college students are the first ones exposed to those ideas (and b/c they are young and impressionable), they are the first to espouse it.

    Some new ideas are 'good', while others are not. Because colleges tend to experiment with new ideas, they represent a contradiction in the old ways of thinking, which makes some adherents of these old ways angry and resentful.

    I think the anti-intellectual air on this board reflects some of this anger.

    I think some valid points have been made, but there is no need to speak disparagingly of 'academics'.

    Many intellectuals I have encountered have travelled to other countries, and been exposed to various cultures, so I find their observations to be just as valid---if not moreso---then the so-called people who live in the 'real world'.

    My two cents. ;)
  17. MarvinTheMartian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2002
    star 5
    Well, I have had about one right-leaning lecturer in my two years at university so far.

    I have met a few academics and other students with right wing views, and they have no less experience in the world than the left-wingers.

    But yeah, i am very resentful at the way conservatives are treated. being a straight white male, i am pretty much encouraged to feel like an opressor (which I certainly do NOT) because this whole approach to Political Correctness has been taken too far.
  18. Darth Mischievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    Universities are way too PC.

    And they are mostly left-wingers. That's because these guys have all day to think abou things and are so far removed from the real world that they become idealogues. Reality just ain't so, as they say.

    90% of college professors are Democrats and vote so. What does that say about colleges?

    Bill O'Reilly did an excellent segment the other night on this very issue.
  19. Joey7F Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2000
    star 4
    Western culture is vastly superior to anything else going on ANYWHERE.

    American Culture is superior to the culture of most other countries. Though there are aspects of other cultures that beat aspects of our own, due to America's diverse background, we often get the benefits without the drawbacks.

    It is absurd to see students not be more adamant about the inferioriy muslim culture. Though I am prejudiced infavor of American culture, any objective observer would draw the same conclusion

    If you hear people talk about racism with regard to Arabs please correct them for me.

    There are 3 races Caucasoids, Negroids, and Mongoloids.

    Arabs fall into one of the three categories, most of which are Caucasoids.

    --Joey


  20. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    90% of college professors are Democrats and vote so. What does that say about colleges?

    You assume too much. Educated people, especially academics, tend to be very liberal because liberalism, by definition, is openness to change, and a major part of being an academic is learning to stretch your mind around new and strange things that others would immediately reject from their world view. There is a correlation there, but correlation does not imply causality in either direction.
  21. 1stAD Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2001
    star 5
    The old colonialist-era labels on races with regards to caucasoids, et. al. is quite outdated [face_plain]
  22. Darth Mischievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    because liberalism, by definition, is openness to change,


    Not by reality.

  23. jiabaoyu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2000
    star 3
    American Culture is superior to the culture of most other countries. Though there are aspects of other cultures that beat aspects of our own, due to America's diverse background, we often get the benefits without the drawbacks.

    And you are basing this on what? The McDonalds? The overconsumption? The fact that a significant number of Americans can't do fractions?

    To say that American culture is 'superior' to other cultures is like deciding that Star Wars is the best movie ever made....sure, many would agree it's a good movie series, but most would disagree with your assessment that it is the best.

    Cultural superiority is your opinion based on your personal experiences, just as someone who disagrees with you will base their opinion on their views. There are no right or wrong answer to which culture is superior, there are only opinions.

    It is absurd to see students not be more adamant about the inferioriy muslim culture. Though I am prejudiced infavor of American culture, any objective observer would draw the same conclusion

    If you are 'prejudiced' in favor of American culture...how can you be certain that an 'objective' observer would 'draw the same conclusion'? If your conclusion is tainted by your subjectivity, how would you expect objective viewers to come to that same conclusion?

    As for 'objective viewer', by that, do you mean people who have lived in various countries around the world? If that is the standard, then I doubt many of these 'objective viewers' would believe in the inerrant superiority of American culture. I have always found that the more people travel, the more people generally come to respect and appreciate what other cultures has to offer.
  24. Kit' Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 1999
    star 5
    And they are mostly left-wingers. That's because these guys have all day to think abou things and are so far removed from the real world that they become idealogues. Reality just ain't so, as they say.

    Yeah, because Students and Lectures are just given ivory towers the moment they are let into Uni [face_plain] [roll eyes] Having grown up in a household where my dad was a Uni proffessor, I'd actually have to say that most of the lecturers down here seem to be conservative.

    The thing is, is that people on here seem to be basing their opinions on a vocal minority as opposed to the silent majority. I think that if you actually talk to most University students you'll find them to be much more rounded in their political views then people here seem to think.

    Kithera
  25. MarvinTheMartian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2002
    star 5
    ^ It depend on what kind of faculty, and what kind of university.

    If it is a smaller, private university where the courses are law, economics, coimmerce etc then there is a good chance it is going to be much more conservative.

    The larger unis where you have a range of stuff, then you will get students and staff from all over the political spectrum.

    Faculties that are generally more liberal usually include Political Science, the Arts, Literature, Social Sciences, and most humanities subjects. of course there are going to be a few conservaties in them, but the majority are radicals or liberals.

    And also - yes, there is a lare silent majority out there. I beleive the reason for this, is that I have observed the left-leaning students to be much louder, and agressive, than the right-wing ones.

    And of course, sometimes you get student councils which are quite dictatorial, and pretty much tell students exactly what to believe. This is exceptionally obvious when you ask some students for their opinions on things, then ask them why and they cant give you a straight answer.
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