College Students Too PC?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Lord Bane, Jul 15, 2002.

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  1. Patriot_Wookiee Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    I am a conservative student at Ohio university, which is a liberal school. This is not to say the students are all PC liberal. I have several friends here who are conservative or moderate (non-PC) liberal.

    What I have noticed is it is more the profs that are PC than the students. They tell the students that they should be open minded, but the truth is that they only things they want you to open your mind to are their beliefs. It is the narrow and weak minded students who begin to believe their BS, and become politically correct.

    The residence staff are also is very politically correct. They love to hang propaganda in the dorms. They have these signs that say, "to think critically is to question," and that's it. I considered being an RA (resident assistant), but I decided against it because if I became an RA, then I would have to support all of their political corectness.

    I have pissed some people off. A lot of other people respond like I am just some ignorant redneck from Chillicothe (OH). No matter what they say, I will always stand up for what I believe.
  2. Joey7F Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2000
    star 4
    And you are basing this on what? The McDonalds? The overconsumption? The fact that a significant number of Americans can't do fractions?

    To say that American culture is 'superior' to other cultures is like deciding that Star Wars is the best movie ever made....sure, many would agree it's a good movie series, but most would disagree with your assessment that it is the best.

    Cultural superiority is your opinion based on your personal experiences, just as someone who disagrees with you will base their opinion on their views. There are no right or wrong answer to which culture is superior, there are only opinions.


    The majority of Americans can do fractions. McDonald's and other American companies rule, as evidenced by their worldwide presence. One of the most popular chains in Japan and China is KFC. Overconsumption? We have more people and more resources so naturally we will consume more.

    Name a culture superior to ours.

    I admitted there were some that I would consider "close".

    I believe your Star Wars analogy is incorrect because there are so many other fantastic movies available. However if you would say, American Cinema is the best in the world, few would disagree (do we produce crap? Yup!)

    If you are 'prejudiced' in favor of American culture...how can you be certain that an 'objective' observer would 'draw the same conclusion'? If your conclusion is tainted by your subjectivity, how would you expect objective viewers to come to that same conclusion?

    As for 'objective viewer', by that, do you mean people who have lived in various countries around the world? If that is the standard, then I doubt many of these 'objective viewers' would believe in the inerrant superiority of American culture. I have always found that the more people travel, the more people generally come to respect and appreciate what other cultures has to offer.



    And I find the more math and science a person has been exposed to, the more likely they are to have lucid though processes.

    If every "good" opinion had to be objective, we could never make any opinion of any kind and represent it as a "fact". For example, "We should expose Kindergartners to lethal doses of radiation if they won't stay quiet". I would assume most people would call that stupidest suggestion of all time. However it isn't any worse than saying "Discipline is needed" because after all, we have different experiences and backgrounds.

    I have travelled to Norway, Netherlands, Germany, France, and Switzerland. Those are all nations (except for France and the Netherlands) which I consider to be "close to us". I would not mind living in any of those (except for the two I excluded earlier). But there is no place like the US...

    --Joey

  3. Darth Fierce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2000
    star 4
    "Educated people, especially academics, tend to be very liberal because liberalism, by definition, is openness to change, and a major part of being an academic is learning to stretch your mind around new and strange things that others would immediately reject from their world view."

    I see this argument all the time, that liberalism is about open-mindedness and acceptance of new ideas. But, at least on these boards, I don't see a whole lot of new ideas and theories being offered by liberals.

    So help me open my mind. Throw out two or three "new and strange things" for me to stretch my mind around.
  4. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    Well, if we are going by definition, that is right. Definitions:

    Conservative:

    Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.

    Liberal:

    Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry; favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.

    Those ARE the dictionary definitions. Now whether actual liberals or conservatives follow these is up for debate.
  5. Kyle Katarn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 1998
    star 6
    I'd love to see a liberal who was tolerant of my conservative views. Or is asking them to change their "We're right, everyone who opposes us us wrong." approach, asking too much of them??
  6. Joey7F Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2000
    star 4
    Actually most conservatives are "liberal". The "liberal" ideals were in support of freedom from a central government.

    --Joey

  7. Joey7F Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2000
    star 4
    1st-adThe old colonialist-era labels on races with regards to caucasoids, et. al. is quite outdated

    I disagree. It is the anthropologic descriptions we have for the races.

    What would you suggest?

    --Joey
  8. jiabaoyu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2000
    star 3
    The majority of Americans can do fractions.

    I was referring to the fact that American students continually lag behind their industrialized counterparts....and that, despite mandatory instructions through 10th grade, there are still a significant number of Americans who cannot do basic math.

    McDonald's and other American companies rule, as evidenced by their worldwide presence. One of the most popular chains in Japan and China is KFC.

    I was not arguing about America's economic superiority, which I consider to be a SEPERATE issue from culture, culture, IMHO, has little to do with a country's buying power. I was arguing that these items we export (fast food, movies) are not always high brow fare.

    Since when did even Americans consider hamburgers to be elite crusine? Or non-sensical, violent movies overdosed on sex to be the representative of the best of American theater?

    Yes, America produced many wonderful things, but we also produce crap, and that, I believe puts us in the "one of the best culture" category, not "the best".

    Overconsumption? We have more people and more resources so naturally we will consume more.

    America is considered one of the fattest nation in the world. We also expend a disporportionate amount of the world's resources. Frugality is a virtue, gluttony, last I checked, is not.

    Name a culture superior to ours.

    Well, my parents, having lived here for 17 years, along with some of my Chinese friends, all believe that China still has the greatest culture in the world. Many speak distaste of American's 'lack of respect for education'.

    My friend who just got back from an internship in Thailand and a summer of Asia hopping has decided Thailand has the greatest culture on this planet.

    I have an Egyptian roommate who believes that Egypt's culture, although not superior to any nation's, is at least superior to America's.

    My Korean friend tells me that most wealthy Koreans (including ones she knows) who come here to study as an undergraduate will go back to Korea, they like it better there. Ditto for Japanese students. And certainly, many East Asians who live here or not, just consider Asian culture to be superior to Western culture.

    When I was doing a summer workshop, a third of the people there were from Europe, and they spoke somewhat disparagingly of American culture. They asked what kind of food was truly 'American'? Most, they believe, were 'stolen' from Europe....the rest were corrupted forms of the original recipe. They liked many aspects of American life, but found the cultural aspects lacking.

    I have travelled to Norway, Netherlands, Germany, France, and Switzerland. Those are all nations (except for France and the Netherlands) which I consider to be "close to us". I would not mind living in any of those (except for the two I excluded earlier). But there is no place like the US...

    Those countries, along with the US, might be the best country for you, but not for others who might not be used to the country's cultures and practices.

    My grandparents begged to be sent back to China after only a few weeks here. They hated the food, the clothes, and surbubia living. They left a year later.

    But I believe we are mixing the 'living standards' of American with the 'cultural standard' of America. America culture is not everyone having a house and two SUV---most people in other countries would like those too, but cannot afford to.

    "Culture", to me, has been the practices and habits that are uniquely of that country. Loving one's children is not a cultural trait as every culture shares that, having an independent streak is a mark of cultural differences, as that is uniquely American (shared with a few other countries).

    In the end, most people who come here do not come for the "superior" culture of America, but for the economic opportunity that America offers, and that, they consider to be a seperate issue from culture.

    Just my two cents. :)
  9. The Butler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 1999
    star 4
    Well, jiabaoyu, my perspective is the exact opposite of yours. I'm a student in Taiwan who plans to study in the U.S. before coming back to work in Taiwan. However, I think the Han Chinese culture is far from the best in the world. I prefer Taiwan's food, clothing, etc. (but not the entertainment. Oh, Light, spare me from Taiwanese soap operas!)--but I find Western values preferable (dare I say superior?) to Chinese values.

    I live in a society which defines me by my relationships to others. I am a daughter, a granddaughter, a sister, a niece, and a student. I'm "____, the daughter of ____, who got first place in the exams" not "____, crazy Star Wars fan." It might not mean a lot to you guys, but the concept of individual freedom is liberating, inspiring.

    Yes, I'm Westernized and proud of it. My mother, who's grown up with standard Chinese values, is currently at loose ends. For most of her adult life, she has been "the wife and mother." Now that we kids are grown and almost gone, she doesn't have anything to base her life on. She's never thought of herself as an autonomous individual. I don't want to live like that, and I'm glad I won't have to.
  10. Joey7F Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2000
    star 4
    I was not arguing about America's economic superiority, which I consider to be a SEPERATE issue from culture, culture, IMHO, has little to do with a country's buying power. I was arguing that these items we export (fast food, movies) are not always high brow fare.

    Since when did even Americans consider hamburgers to be elite crusine? Or non-sensical, violent movies overdosed on sex to be the representative of the best of American theater?

    Yes, America produced many wonderful things, but we also produce crap, and that, I believe puts us in the "one of the best culture" category, not "the best".


    Why concentrate on the "crap"? Name 10 good movies made outside of the US during the last year. Name 10 foreign restaurants.

    Well, my parents, having lived here for 17 years, along with some of my Chinese friends, all believe that China still has the greatest culture in the world. Many speak distaste of American's 'lack of respect for education'.

    And I speak of China's lack of respect for basic human rights...so what?

    My friend who just got back from an internship in Thailand and a summer of Asia hopping has decided Thailand has the greatest culture on this planet.

    Apparently Thailand is very nice, but there is something called the honeymoon period. Anytime you travel for a foreign country to get wrapped up in the good new things (assuming you aren't visiting a total crap hole).

    I have an Egyptian roommate who believes that Egypt's culture, although not superior to any nation's, is at least superior to America's.

    Umm...Egypt is not superior to any country except America? Is America no longer a country?


    My Korean friend tells me that most wealthy Koreans (including ones she knows) who come here to study as an undergraduate will go back to Korea, they like it better there. Ditto for Japanese students. And certainly, many East Asians who live here or not, just consider Asian culture to be superior to Western culture.

    I assume you mean South Korea? Wealthy Koreans think that eh? What about your average Korean?

    When I was doing a summer workshop, a third of the people there were from Europe, and they spoke somewhat disparagingly of American culture. They asked what kind of food was truly 'American'? Most, they believe, were 'stolen' from Europe....the rest were corrupted forms of the original recipe. They liked many aspects of American life, but found the cultural aspects lacking.

    We didn't steal food, we brought it with us, and to be more specific, we brought the best with us. Meatloaf and Fried Chicken seem to be fairly "American" but in all honesty, we have only been around for a fraction of the time other country's have. A lot of our culture features a fusion. Jazz a fusion of various European styles and African Percussion, Fusion restaurants, Cherry and Mountain Dew the list goes on ;)

    The more you travel, the more you appreciate the United States.

    --Joey
  11. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    Why put cultures into terms of "best" and "worst" at all? It's like music. You have a prefrence, you have something that you grew up with, but it's certainly not better than anything else out there.

    American Culture certainly has its good points, but for the most part there isn't anything culture wise that didn't already exist in some other western country. Alot of people would argue, for example, that the whole rock culture originated in Britain.

    When looking at cultures, i prefer to look at the whole picture, and not pick favourites with countries culture wise.
  12. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    Why concentrate on the "crap"? Name 10 good movies made outside of the US during the last year. Name 10 foreign restaurants.

    Name me 10 good movies made inside the US in the last year.

    Name me 10 American restaurants that are good. (McDonalds, Quick, Burgerking and co are crap. ugh)



    Actually, nevermind, this is stupid, a *culture* is NEVER superior. You could compare it to music genre's.

    Commercially successful is not an indicator of quality, e.g. Britney Spears.
  13. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Most foreign countries dont have their own disgusting chain restarants. They have restaurants that serve food that is much better than that. This is no way to argue american superiority. AMerican chains are absolutley disgusting.

    And the US does not have the largest population, so that is not the reason why we consume the most. America is a gluttonous country.


    The reason you have not heard of movies produced outside of the US speakes more to your ignorance in that realm(as most americans have an aversion to foreign filmks) than it does to the quality of cinema outside the US.
  14. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    There is good foreign film if you care, some good ones playing right now in the theaters are "Meisje" , "Elf September", or "Y Tu Mama Tambien" or "Le Fabuleux Destin D'Amélie Poulain"...

  15. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    GAP the point is he doesnt care. Most americans do not care about films made outside of america. Instead they pile in to see garbage like MIB 2 or Austin Powers 3.


    Amelie and Y Tu Mama Tabien were both really good movies by the way.
  16. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    I've heard Amelie is a really good movie, but unfortunately i haven't had the chance to see it. Foreign films rarely get a chance to shine though.
  17. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    There are more decent non-US films than there are decent US films (IMO).

    I feel many americans do not appreciate movies made in another language because they cannot watch the picture and read the words at the same time.

    However, there are a few good British movies that have been popular in the US in recent years; Lock Stock...., Snatch, Bridget Jones, Billy Elliot, Full Monty, Harry Potter to name a few. (I said popular, not decent ;) ). Perhaps their popularity is due to them being in English.

    There are many many more decent movies that are in another language. Perhaps the biggest success story recently was Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon although I believe it was dubbed into english in the US :( . Central Station and Life is Beautiful are perhaps classics of modern cinema, Brazilian and Italian respectively.

    What bothers me is when they dub foreign movies into English, or remake the entire film. Can anyone explain why americans remade Luc Besson's classic La Femme Nikita just because it was in French ?

    M
  18. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    I enjoyed both Y Tu Mama Tambien and Amelie Poulain. Amelie Poulain was the better of the 2 though.

    Hey, don't worry about America dubbing things, the French and the Germans do that too, we here in Belgium we usually just use subtitles.
  19. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    good point - thats true. I've seen American shows in Spanish and French.

    I personally prefer to see a movie in its original language with sutitles. I feel you get more emotion from listening to the voices, even if you can't understand the words.

    M
  20. Darth Mischievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    How did this topic go from PC in colleges to American bashing?
  21. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    Who's bashing America?

    He said that the American culture was superior to any other because McDonalds has restaurants all over the world, we prove him wrong, so now we're bashing America?

  22. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    I agree with GAP its a little out of hand to suggest that America has the best culture because there are McDonalds around the world...........

    Many americans think they invented the hamburger [face_plain]

    M

    edit: McDonalds is ranked the 124th largest company in the world. WOW, thats total global dominance. [/sarcasm]
  23. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    What audacity to suggest that america is the greatest country in the world becuase of the poison known as mcdonalds. Yet again i thank god i am from NYC where you can get good food everywhere.
  24. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    How did you get American Bashing from us suggesting that the American culture isn't superior????
  25. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Because too many americans think that if you dispute anything about america you are bashing it. Utter nonsense
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