Combining the Film Forums (Revisited)

This topic came up last year, and I just wanted to chime in in favour of a single forum for all the films. I agree with the reason Binary gave, and can only add that after another year, all three forums have slowed down, and most of their threads quickly devolve into PT vs CT vs O-OT vs Saga, ad infinitum...

Putting these three, now small, forums together (can it be done so that all current threads remain active?) would, I think, reduce this endless derailment. You could keep all the current mods, especially as the single forum might very well become more active (especially if all the interesting threads and questions can open up without becoming PT vs CT). Now, I'd call it "Star Wars Films", "Star Wars Big Screen", "Star Wars Trilogies", or the like. On reflection, I wouldn't use the word "Saga" (although I like it), because it is a debatable term, and plays into the whole problem of PT vs CT vs Saga vs Tragedy vs "My reading of GL's intentions", and so on.

I hate to say it, but the current three separate forums have fueled the gusher vs basher problem, and as such, each have become less and less interesting of late. Let me stress: Waiting for and speculating about new films was not the only thing which made these forums fun to post in and read years ago. It was the theorizing, intellectual debate, and all manner of interesting observations, none of which have been exhausted, but all of which are frequently squelched by the divisiveness, thus spoiling the fun. Combining the three forums would, at the very least, cease fueling the bickering, and in my view, would help all posters rise above "this destructive conflict".

Thanks for considering it!

 

Having them combined would fuel the basher gusher debate even more I feel.

And I don't think the traffic in them is slow at all. I regularly get my little "!" appearing on those forums before the others in my favourites.

Personally, I don't see this happening

 

Not to be argumentative, let me add another premise: There is essentially one forum for discussing all of the EU Literature in detail (the review forum is a different animal, IMHO), and the EU is body of work made up of a good bit more material than the films are made of. How many novels and other EU materials are out there? Uh...lots. How many of the Lit posters have their favorites and various conflicting opinions on portions of the novels? I'm sure many do. So, how many threads in Lit are derailed by petty disputes? Few that I've seen. Why then, do we still have three separate (and separating) forums for only six films, films which are meant to be viewed as one? The very names of the forums obviously fuel divisions, so how could combining them produce anything other than a Lit-like tolerance for various views??

 

o, how many threads in Lit are derailed by petty disputes? Few that I've seen. Why then, do we still have three separate (and separating) forums for only six films, films which are meant to be viewed as one

According to one man. Others may feel differently.

 

If I could add a [face_headpalm] in support to your statement, I most certainly would. I'm actively in the process of trying to CUT DOWN the number of threads in Lit sidetracked by petty disputes, so perhaps not the best analogy you could have chosen, DarthMatter.

Certainly, on the surface, your proposal (or that of Binary_Sunset) may appear to have merit. But one must consider ALL aspects, not just the narrow, dogmatic view of the Mergists if one is to become a wise leader! For example, what would happen to the individual community of ALL THREE forums in such a merge? How does this affect the topics per day (i.e. one topic that may stand out in one forum which gets, say, 25 new topics a day may not in a combined forum where there are 150 new topics per day and turnover is higher, etc.)? Things of that nature. I don't know the answer to this question (and I suspect no one really does without mass research), but these are the types of forward-thinking I'd expect before this occurred beyond a pipe dream phase.

 

No problem, I strike those 9 words from the explanation of my added premise, and this is part of the never-ending dispute, and why "Saga" should not be in this single forum's title. Thanks for illustrating the problem.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply there are no petty disputes in other forums. Of course there are. I'm saying that, from what I've read over the years, Lit isn't filled with the exact-same petty dispute over and over, ad infinitum. Is it? Not from what I see. Lit (among others) is a discussion forum, sure, but not some kind of....Groundhog Day in the GFFA.

Okay then, put the shoe on the other foot - why don't you all split up the Lit forum into "Old Republic Era Literature", "Prequel Era Literature", "Classic Era Literature", "New Jedi Order Literature", "Legacy Era Literature", etc? Because it would be silly, probably. Why then does it not seem just as silly with respect to three divisive forums for six films??

 

This would be an even worse idea, as EU is pretty much one entity, and is linked together throughout, including the movies. It polarizes and creates barriers and quite frankly that exactly what this fandom DOESN'T need any more of.

I think it wouldn't be a big deal if we all realized that we can all like some of the movies or all of the movies or some of the OT and some of the PT, and not begrudge anyone else their opinion. THAT is what makes these forums have a toxic atmosphere. Like what you want, as long as it doesn't affect me personally, I don't care. Stop paying attention to someone's opinion of a set of movies. They aren't speaking for you and they never can.

Ignore is a awesome way to deal with those pesky type posts on either side of the argument. If it gets to be about you instead of your opinion, then by all means that can and will be dealt with.

 

Yeah, but I can't SEE those at work. Hence I do it the other way.

You're right, it's not one petty dispute. It's pretty much just three of them (anti/pro-specific author, anti/pro-numbers or anti/pro-character), with "author" and "character" usually narrowed down to only one or two choices.

Quite frankly because, I'd wager, that there are orders of magnitude more fans of Star Wars because of the films than the books and there -- in the movie forums combined -- is probably an order of magnitude more traffic on a daily basis (at least in terms of new thread/discussion creation) than in the Literature Forum. Not saying that's the only explanation, but if you asked me (and you kinda did), that would be my response. But I'm not the one you have to convince.

 

Yes, that was exactly my point, not to mention the point of revisiting this thread. Simply ignoring, as you suggest, means that I just ignore TF.N much of the time, as I tire of watching not just mine, but nearly all threads turn to PT vs CT again and again. If that is the purpose of those forums, then I was in the wrong place, I guess.

And a good response, thanks. It's a good reason, but the film forums are still divisive.

I know, I've said too much already. I'm an outsider proposing change. It's only natural to reject it automatically. You're all good people running these forums, but that doesn't mean outsiders like me can't have good ideas about how to make them better. Just consider the idea, and take a look around those film forums - what they used to be, gone they are, consumed by the darkside fangasms...


edit: (ps), didn't mean for that to sound spiteful, btw...

 

There have been a lot of "outside" ideas adopted over the years. To attempt to play that card won't get you anywhere good.

 

CT has two threads that are PT vs CT by design (more or less) and one that currently has a problem staying away from that dreadful topic. All others are about something else entirely, with no mention of it, and if they do, there are no fights.

I don't know what problems PT and/or Saga have, but I'm not sure they'll be fixed by throwing "us" into them. We're not that peaceful.

Also, I'm just recovering from the accusations that we ruined the forum by driving away everybody with an opinion. You say it's a terrible place because of all the fighting. Which one is it?

 

Well I would think that combining PT, CT and Saga would worsen the PT vs. CT bickering, as everything would be thrown in together. I think the setup we currently have strikes the best balance between keeping the saga unified and trying to mediate the PT vs. CT split in the fanbase.

 

Of course, I wasn't suggesting otherwise...

I know, KW, you don't like me, got it. But, I'm not into card games.

Well, if I may be bold, it's kinda both. From what I've seen, most of the people with interesting opinions have been driven off (I was one of them for a good while), for one reason or another, the passage of time, the end of the films, something more interesting somewhere else, or just exhaustion with the endless bickering I'm talking about. Most of what seems to be going on now is "I hate Jar-Jar" vs "The OT effects are meh", and so on, and you know what I mean. I'm just suggesting that a combined film forum just might attract back the people who have more to contribute than PT vs CT, and that it shouldn't be the TF.N position to reinforce the PT vs CT distinction, since it doesn't do it with Lit.

So, perhaps I've given the decision-makers reason to consider the idea.

 

Edit: nevermind.

 

Well, we have a combined forum for those types of discussions. It's called Star Wars Saga and you should find more serious in depth Saga discussion there. It's part of the striking a balance to which I was referring.

As for the PT/CT distinction, well... Lucasfilm themselves make this distinction constantly. Why shouldn't we follow suit?

 

I agree. And its not like we're strapped for space and need to consolidate or anything. We have a place to discuss only the CT, only the PT and the saga as a whole. They work well in three separate forums and there's really no need to combine them all.

 

KW, I was obviously joking (hence the winky face), so can you back off a bit? If it wasn't funny enough for you, or this group, I'm sorry, but you're getting way too personal, and you don't even know me

Sarcastic, but another good point, anyway. Yet, in the Saga forum, you will find that nearly every thread becomes PT vs CT quickly enough. Of course, some threads are designed that way, but many which are not quickly devolve, regardless of the OP's topic.

Then you should be in favour of splitting up the Lit board that way. As I was pointing out above, what's good for one should be good for the other (putting them together, I mean), so the fact that EU and the films are treated so differently doesn't make complete sense. The problem with the "Saga" board, with respect to this question, is that it is in favour of the two trilogies as a Saga, which also plays into the larger debate. Don't get me wrong, I like the notion of SW being a Saga, and I've been a regular on that board recently (and have usually gravitated there), but the threads still devolve, and then, the PT and CT forums seem even more divisive.

So, thanks again. You all probably had this same debate last year, so no need to keep shooting me down, so to speak. I just wanted to voice support for the idea.

edit:typo

 

No I was not being sarcastic at all. I have no how well people know what each of the forums on the JC are for. Maybe you've spent no time in Saga and don't know what type of discussion takes place there. Maybe you do. There was no sarcasm intended however. As for splitting Lit, I know enough to know that I am completely unfamiliar with that forum. How can I say anything about how it should be structured. As a Star Wars fan, though, I am unaware of any sort of deeply rooted division that permeates many levels of fandom and is structured that way by Lucasfilm themselves.

 

I don't doubt that the threads devolve, but honestly if its turning into a basher vs gusher war, that's more about moderation and should be handled in the thread. We don't like bashing to bash or gushing to gush. We'd rather have real genuine discussion and real opinions, given with thought and then debated respectfully. My suggestion is when you see that, PM a Saga, a CT or a PT mod. Believe me, I used to mod PT and I've hung around CT enough to know you're not just seeing things, it happens. But again, all it takes is some facilitation, some moderation and some pointing to the rules to get it back to where it should be. It takes a lot of work on part of the mods and sometimes we don't catch everything, though, because unfortunately a lot of SW fans hate SW as the joke goes.

 

Rhonda, would there be a thread where I can find out why Luke refuses to fight, why Vader stops killing men in ESB, why Vader doesn't kill Luke in ESB and why the catwalk scene is so important in ROTJ?

I'd hate to turn in my plastic lightsaber.

 

Did I miss something?

 

I agree with Darth Dark Helmet on this issue. I appreciate that you brought the issue to Comms. The thing is, we know that after 30 years a forum dedicated to each film can't stand alone or generate enough traffic. The PT and OT have fans that like both, one or the other, or a little from each that separating it into the PT and OT is a natural break that works well. And anything that's over-arching is best suited for Saga. Though consolidation may seem to bring all topics together, I personally believe you're not going to see the synergy you expect. I think it'll do more to divide than unite. I would prefer not to combine the PT and OT, et. al.

 

Touché.

 

Thanks again to all. Perhaps my perspective comes from being less active here than most. Maybe it's like the frog in the boiling water analogy? Maybe you didn't notice the water coming to a boil, as it were, but as I wasn't around here for many months, I noticed it right away? Still, if there's no general will to make such a change, then that's that. Oh, and by the way, I wouldn't put any of this down to modding. I think it's just an overall "lowered expectations" thing among everyone posting in those forums, due as I said, to the passage of time, completion of the films, less to speculate over, etc. The heights of heady discussion from years back is still there in the film forums, it's just a good deal harder to find and enjoy among all the "Fan Wars".