Amph Come with me if you want to live: The Terminator Thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by Darth_Ignant, Jan 6, 2006.

  1. gonzoforce Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2002
    star 5
    which is why it's about on par with T3, but nowhere near the The Terminator and T2.

    But out of all the actors in the film, I think Yelchin was the best.
  2. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    Yes! Finally, a worthy sequel to T2! A solid concept, full-throated performances from a topnotch cast, and some gripping, gritty, bone-crunchy action sequences, and we have a damn fine Terminator film that could act as a direct sequel/prequel to any or all of the previous films, including (why not?) the TV series. Color me impressed.

    My gripes are the score, which is too warm and orchestral for a T film -- it should have been more mechanistic and synthesized -- and the occasional clunky moments in the action (such as the scout-disk chase), along with a few moments of accent-faltering from the otherwise excellent Worthington.

    I'm giving it a provisional 4 stars (out of 5), which may change depending on future viewings.
  3. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Just got back from seeing it a second time and, much like Star Trek, it's much more enjoyable the second time around after you can properly atune your expectations.

    The film really, really works for the first hour or so (with, IMO still, the misplaced opening scene) and is damn worthy of the Terminator name. Basically everything up until just after the harvester/moto sequence. It's when Blair and Marcus get to the hillbilly station that the film hits some speed bumps with a subpar amount of character moments- which, I believe, is the result of a lot of deleted material (besides the sex scene, there is something most obviously deleted between the rainy arrival at the hillbilly station and the rainless rape fight; there's also several John or John/Kate lines/scenes used in trailers and Tv spots that are not in the film, also the T-1 rising up from the sewer water that was in early trailers is not here at all)- and I think this hurts the film overall).

    The escape from the base seems like a semi-pointless action sequence until Connor arrives (though McG does another wonderful single-take sequence there I didn't notice the first time 'round), and a distraction (especially for Williams, who recieves no consequences from her actions and basically vanishes from the film at this point). I think if they ahd removed that (or turnd the minefield thing into a "escape from Skynet" type deal, it would have worked better.

    This time around I also really started liking Marcus's character and wish they had explored his backstory more thrououghly. A couple added flashback sequences (in addition to the opening execution scene, repurposed as a flashback) fleshing out the murders that haunted him, his feelings towards his brother (and the Alice In Chains song), and his relationship with Carter's character, would have all built up his struggle for redemption as well as made SkyCarter's appearance and scene a bit more devasttaing (and, as an added benefit, make it be able to be far less exposition-heavy, which would have made it more dramatic). This character shortcoming is the major flaw of the film, IMO- and, had they rectified it, this film would have been much closer in company to the first two films.

    I'm hoping the DVD will have an extended cut that will provide the needed fleshing out.

    I'm also digging some of Elfman's work here with the music- Marcus's theme is very catchy, and he does a decent job with the other themes (though I would have preferred they use the T-800 theme during the T-800 brawl). He's not my ideal choice for the material (I'd love to have Hans Zimmer or one of his Pirate brethern take a stab at a Terminator film score).

    Visually, I also like how things are still gritty, even for Skynet- it hasn't yet attained the clean silver chrome look to it's Hunter-Killers, Terminators and Perimeter defense turrets that we see in T1, T2, Y2-3D and T3.

    Hpefully that's something we'll see come to be in future sequels, alongside both factions developing more plasma-based weaponry (we gets hints of this with the Harvester's shoulder weapon and HK's sub targeting).

    On a smaller note, I first saw T2 before T1 back when T2 first hit video, so after I had obssessed over a copy of T2 on VHS long enough, I rented T1 from the video store, and, not knowing what to expect, but absed on the still pics and description on the box, I got the impression there'd be more of a glimpse at the evil corporation behind Skynet and I envisioned Skynet's HQ to be a certain way (certainly different than the Pyramid we've all come to know and love).

    So, I was very pleasantly surprised to see that the depiction of the San Fransico Skynet HQ as being more of an office tower design matched pretty closely what I had envisioned way back then off the back of the T1 VHS sleeve. i love it when things work out like that. :D

    (naturally, though, the eventual LA Annex will have to have that pyramid :cool: )
  4. mrmdee23 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2009
    Saw it and totally dug it! It's not as good as the first two... but seriously, those are two of the best sci-fi films of all time.

    I wrote a full review on my blog, but I'm just glad people seem to generally disagree with the critics on this one.
  5. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    The critics can get stoppered. Sure, the film's not perfect -- there isn't a single moment of humor in the entire thing, which is a problem in a T movie -- but it's a sight better than T3 in both concept and execution.
  6. gonzoforce Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2002
    star 5
    thinking back after seeing it, I've come to the conclusion, that this movie sucked big time. The Characters were boring, with the exception of Yelchin's Kyle Reese, the music was horrible, what has happened to Danny Elfman? They should of just let this franchise dead when Cameron decided not to direct T3. Heck, the Sarah Connor Chronicles, is 10 times better than this film.

    The action was boring, mainly because I just wasn't interested in what happened to the characters. The alley chase scene in T2 is better than every action scene in this film. Oh and the future scene at the beginning of T2 was much better than this film. I hope they don't make a T5, or if they do, the only way I'll see it is if Cameron comes back as director, which most likely will never happen.

    oh and Bale is not even the lead of this movie, that was the only reason why I checked out this movie, was cause of Bale and even he was rather boring.
  7. Jedi Vince Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 1999
    star 3
    I found The Sarah Connor Chronicles superior in every single aspect -- especially Bear McReary's score. That's along with the performances of Lena Heady, Summer Glau, Thomas Dekker and Brian Austin Green -- and the amazing writing.

    That being said, I enjoyed Terminator Salvation a lot. However, I think a lot of my enjoyment was due to the fact that I read Timothy Zahn's lead-in novel, From the Ashes, which does a fantastic job introducing us to these characters.

    I was still surprised at how effective Anton Yelchin was as young Kyle Reese. He really conveyed Michael Biehn's mannerisms well, and portrayed the character's loyalty and bravery.

    The action scenes did a fine of job of capturing that grinding-metal feel of the first three films.

    What I didn't like was Christian Bale as John Connor. You could do a lot worse, but Bale just doesn't convey that leadership quality found in John Connor. He grunts and screams a lot, and I never want to follow him into battle. To be fair, I'm not a fan of any of his work as an actor. He's passable as Batman to me because of Christopher Nolan, David Goyer, Michael Caine, Liam Neeson, the great Gary Oldman, and others around him.
  8. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    I also noted the lack of humor (though I think this was just to balance out the over-abundance of humor in T3 that bordered on self-parody), but there are a few moments of humor in the film that got consistent laughs in both screenings I attended:

    -Marcus's "So that's what death tastes like." (not outright humor, but gets a chcukel in a "oooh-burn!" kinda way)
    -Marcus's "If the idea is to stay alive, I'm driving."
    -Kyle reitterating Marcus's "if you pull a gun on someone, you better be ready to use it" line and Marcus's reaction to it.
    -"I'll be back."


    Apparently the movie originally didn't have much of Connor in it and Bale was going to play Marcus, but Bale wanted to play Connor so they rewrote the movie to be half-Marcus-half-Connor. Sadly, I think that was partially the undoing of the film (though I think Bale was good as Connor- he evokes aspects of Furlong, but the unsteadiness of Stahl's version for continuity, which works well with the "Connor doesn't know what is going on and is kinda freaking out" angle in the film). Really, he's Sarah Connor in T2.

    Presuming the next movie follows Connor after this movie's events (and not the idiotic "big machines come back to our time" suggestion floating around) I can see him steadying the character into what we glimpsed at in T2 (we'll ignore that embarassing T3 depiction).
  9. Jedi-Anakin-Solo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2001
    star 6
    Continuity is my biggest concern here. Time travel needs to only come into play in the last film because it's after Skynet realizes that's it's going to lose does it get desperate and send the T-800 back to kill Sarah. Kyle says, "It had no choice. Skynet's defense grid was smashed. We'd won. Taking out Connor then would have made no difference." So Skynet's still there but with no defense.

    That's my biggest issue with T3. With T2, maybe the T-1000 was a prototype they already had (much like the T-800 in Salvation) to send back after they know the first one failed. I don't think they would have had time to develop the "all-powerful" T-X.

    But if they start messing with continuity and start sending more and more stuff back in time, I'm jumping off. That's why I never watched TSCC.
  10. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    With T3, the idea is that the T-X was sent back several years after Kyle and co- I think the related books suggested Skynet was pushed back to backup cores and was still losing, just not outright destroyed, and that's when the T-X was developed and sent back (they say it was after Connor was killed). But, yeah, I don't like the idea of the machines lasting that long.

    With TSCC, they're obviously switching up a few ideas (Kyle and Uncle Bob don't go through immediately after the T-800 and T-1000, since there's time for all the other Terminators and resistance soldiers to go back in- unless they were all sent through AFTER Kyle and Uncle Bob through another time vortex (for Skynet) or the captured one (for the resistance).



    [image=http://www.dieselsweeties.com/hstrips/0/2/2/8/02289.png]
  11. -Phoenix- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2005
    star 5
    Saw it. Thought it was really cool. I've never seen a Terminator movie before but I've heard about each one and understand the characters and concepts of the whole thing. So for me this was a very good movie indeed.
  12. WormieSaber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2000
    star 5
    It rocked. Far superior to T3 which I didn't like that much - T3 copied too many things from T2. T-X was like the T-1000 ... whatever.
  13. Jedi-Anakin-Solo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2001
    star 6
    Exactly. T2 was like the opposite of the first one which is what made it cool, but T3 was just a ripoff of T2. This was it's own thing.
  14. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Umm, T2 was practically a remake.

    Warrior from the future comes back to the present to try preventing a seemingly-unstoppable machine from destroying John Connor. The final confrontation takes place in an industrial complex, where facilities designed to aid in creating machines are used to destroy the assassin. The warrior sacrifices his life, and his charge is left to face an uncertain future.
  15. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    T2 is more like Evil Dead 2- there are similarities to it almost beinga remake, but then it expands and goes in new directions.


    While I grant the cliax is similar, the initial concept similarities between T2 and T1 only exist for T2 to turn them on their end- if you never saw any trailers, ads or other info on T2, when watching that movie you're mant to think Arjold is the bad guy and the T-1000 is the good guy, up until "Get down!", and instead of eternally running away, T2 turns the corner and has the protaganists fight back against Skynet.

    If T2 was a straight remake, you'd go from the hospital to the freeway chase/metal works finale.
  16. JEDI-SOLO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 5
    Saw it yesterday. That was an exicting movie to see on the big screen. I hated Star Trek but this was rockin!
  17. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    I agree that the 'taking the fight to Cyberdyne' element is the big thing that distinguishes T2, but don't forget the parallels of character development that take place between action scenes.

    The T1/T2 formula:

    -Time travelers come back to present
    -Hero rescues Connor from assassin just in the nick of time; chase ensues
    -Escape from government building
    T1: Sarah and "crazy" Kyle break out of police station when assassin shows up
    T2: John and T800 break "crazy" Sarah out of hospital when assassin shows up
    -In hiding
    T1: Sarah and Kyle hide at the motel and stock up on weapons, they fall in love
    T2: Sarah, John, and T800 hide in desert and stock up on weapons, T800 becomes John's 'father' figure
    -*T2 only* Dyson and Cyberdyne section
    -Truck chase and final fight at industrial complex

    So the scenes with Dyson and Cyberdyne are really the only places where T2 really diverges from the formula of the original film. Interestingly enough, there's a deleted scene from the first film in which Sarah suggests taking the fight to Cyberdyne, pretty much spelling out everything that they do in T2. If that scene had remained in the film, we'd have a nice parallel between 'talking about taking the fight to Cyberdyne' and 'taking the fight to Cyberdyne'.
  18. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    But those parallels are all reversals to T1, with the majority of the similarities being there to make it feel like the same series of films.

    -Hero rescues Connor from assassin just in the nick of time; chase ensues: this time who you think is the hero is not and vice versa.

    -Escape from government building: assassins arrival permits Kyle to break free, Sarah does it on her own (and probably would have gotten away) before assassins arrival, also the character reversal of Sarah now being the strong solider and being *actually* a little crazy, whereas they just *thought* Kyle was crazy.

    -In hiding: Kyle becomes more human, Sarah becomes less human. Though both having the presence of a love story (man/woman or father/son) is a staple of Cameron films moreso than just Terminator specificly.
  19. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    So I just started watching T1 again, and was reminded that the opening titles refer to that film's events as the "final battle" of the war with the machines.

    I can't recall anything in T2 that explicitly says Uncle Bob was sent -after- Kyle. So it occurred to me that it might be really cool if the Bale-as-Connor trilogy worked out some way in which Uncle Bob is sent back before the final victory over the machines, and the last film ends with that victory as described by Kyle in T1 and it's truly a last-ditch effort by the machines when they send the T-800 to kill Sarah.

    Of course, this scenario would have to ignore the events of T3, unless they DID go with the 'robot John' bit. I don't know WHY these T3/TS writers are so hellbent on killing John!

    Anyway, here's my ideal layout (throwing T3 out of the mix)

    T1: Kyle saves Sarah from T-800
    T2: Uncle Bob saves John from T-1000
    Terminator Salvation
    TS2: Skynet develops time-machine; sends T-1000 while Connor manages to send Uncle Bob
    TS3: Humans defeat Skynet; Skynet in its death throes sends T-800 while Connor sends Kyle

    Nice symmetry, eh?

    I just really like the idea of the 'last' Terminator movie having a cliffhanger ending the resolution of which is the FIRST movie.
  20. Jedi_Master_Conor Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 6
    I approve of this idea [face_flag]
  21. yodas_waiter Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2006
    star 3
    So, I'm pretty new to this whole series (yeah I know, shame on me [face_blush])

    I watched the first one today and I plan on renting T2 soon. All this in preparation for seeing Salvation with some mates.

    But my question, do I have to see T3? Most of my co-worker (I work at a cinema) think I should just skip it and reading some quotes by McG, it seems they didn't really take it into consideration alongside the tv-series. Can I just watch watch T1 and T2 and go straight into Salvation without too much confusion?
  22. Jedi_Master_Conor Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 6
    T3 can be avoided. I don't see it as absolutely necessary in terms of continuity of the series. However, it is still an entertaining film that is enjoyable to watch.
  23. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    T3 can be avoided. It is absolutely unnecessary in terms of continuity of the series. In addition, it is a silly film that is frustrating to watch.:p

    I just thought of something that might be fun. Given the often contradictory nature of subsequent Terminator installments, it would be neat to compare preferences for what we individually prefer as personal 'canon' for Terminator.

    Canon Possibilities (and yes, I realize I COULD include T2:3D and the novels in here but that would just get too ridiculous. I've included a description of T2:3D below, if anyone wants to tack it on to one of the other timelines - ex. "B plus T2:3D"):

    A. The Terminator only. The machine war ended just before Kyle went back, and his defense of Sarah is truly the 'final battle' of the war. Sarah will train her son for the inevitable Judgment Day.
    B. T1 and T2 only. John and Sarah live to fight another day, unsure whether or not they've stopped Judgment Day.
    C. T1, T2, and T3. Judgment Day happens, John learns of his future demise in a future war that continues to rage. Everyone is just a player acting out their part in a chain of inevitability.
    D. T1, T2, T3, and Terminator Salvation. C plus the uneventful events of Salvation.
    E. T1, T2, and Terminator Salvation. John only ever sent Kyle and Uncle Bob, and as far as we know he will survive to win the war.
    F. T1, T2, and TSCC. Sarah and John continue to fight the future in the present. The timeline of the future is a malleable one. Some time travel events facilitate the original future (Kyle fathering John) while others alter the chain of events (Derek killing Andy Goode).
    G. T1, T2, TSCC, and Terminator Salvation. Theoretically plausible. Obviously there are some sizable date/timeline discrepancies, but those exist even between T1 and T2.

    T2:3D. Several years after T2, Cyberdyne starts back up, and another Uncle Bob model saves John and Sarah from another T-1000. New Uncle Bob briefly takes John to the future where they destroy Skynet headquarters just as John returns to the present.

    My personal order of preference (best to worst):
    F, B plus T2:3D, B, A, G, E, D, C.
  24. The_Smirking_Revenge Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2008
    star 2
    Oh well thank the lord for small favors....


    -T_S_R
  25. Darth_Sidious- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2005
    star 2
    The last Terminator film won't end like that because McG has said that if he directs anymore of them then he would eventually kill off John Connor(as it's stated in T3). Connor is still alive in the future during the events of T1 as it was him who sent Reese back.