Coming to terms with continuity; EU insights.

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by Dark-Fox, Nov 3, 2012.

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  1. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    I think largely we deal with it by still trying to make it all fit, or as much of it fit, as we can.

    For instance most of everything revolving around Mandalore is still canon on some level or another. The Pacifists & TCW version of Death Watch have been added to the mix but everything else still remains as well so far as the EU is concerned. When the new guide books like the Guide to Warfare come out, they still contain as much as possible, though some of it of course gets tweeked(and the odd bit changed or erased).

    Do I like it? No I don't, but there really isn't another option available. Add to that of course that I've been following Star Wars for a long time and have seen a lot of stuff come and go.

    Now if it was official, not just theory based on OOU comments from Filoni, that Jango Fett was never a Mandalorian that would be a big mountain to climb since it would invalidate a lot(from RC to LOTF) - but as it currently stands Jango is still Mandalorian so it doesn't matter.Open Seasons, RC, and even the Mandalorian Marvel stuff is mostly(almost all) still canon.

    The biggest issue coming out of The New Mandalorian episodes were geographical ones. How could Keldabe be the biggest city on Mandalore when Sundari is there? If Mandalore was a nuclear wasteland where were the massive forests and varied terrain that housed the true Mandalorians and their culture?

    Since then it has been determined that Keldabe is still on Mandalore, and that the whole planet is not a nuclear wasteland. It still makes it difficult to reconcile character POV's from the RC/IC series - but none the less it is still all there.

    Other TCW continuity issues are harder to fix. Even Piell, well that pretty much is unworkable short of some deletions - Adi Gallia, much the same. Darth Maul not being dead? Well, thats just nonsense - but its nonsense one has to put up with if they want to move forward with the story.

    I used to have a more personal canon myself but have moved away from that over the past decade or so to try and include as much as possible, something which is also still the LFL view(at least for now).
    Last edited by Robimus, Nov 13, 2012
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  2. Dark-Fox Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2008
    star 2
    I was wondering what status Jango held now. At first i didn't put much stock in the traitor Prime Minister Almec's opinions on Fett's heritage, but when Filoni alluded to it's truthfulness, I accepted that as the new canon and was not happy.

    One of the reasons I've always liked Jango so much is because he is an example of the EU getting a character's backstory 100% right in my opinion. Bounty Hunter was such a good game with an awesome story, KT's Mando history and how it tied in with Open Seasons all led to Jango's loaded line to Kenobi: "always a pleasure to meet a jedi". Take away his mando heritage and a link in that chain is broken.
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  3. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Mandos seem to be more of a culture than a nation in recent times - if Concord Dawn was mentioned, then that's pretty much the same as Manda'yaim {Sp?) as far as being a Mando goes.
  4. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    As I say its still intact at this point. A Filoni interview isn't a canonical source.

    I agree, all that stuff is waht makes his character great.
  5. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    It's true from Almec's PoV. The New Mandalorians are 'the' Mandalorians of the time period. But that doesn't mean that Jango is any more or less valid a Mandalorian because he pulls it from a different source. It's just like the Sith; there are at least six factions at any one time, all Sith in their own right. Are they considered Sith by each other? Of course not.
  6. Dark-Fox Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2008
    star 2
    Good to hear. Canonical or not, is what he says the way George Lucas sees it or wants it? Do you think there was a discussion in which George starts messing with Fett's backstory but the changes thankfully didn't make it into the final cut?


    It's a good point about perspective, Obi-Wan Sinrebirth, and is true in retrospect. At the time though, Almec's comment and Dave's interview had me a little nervous I admit. It's hard to say now what the original intention for Fett was; maybe TCW team stepped back from that dark abyss just in time? Or Filioni was just having a giggle messing with our heads in that behind the scenes comment.
  7. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    star 7
    Filoni, interviews suggest, is caught between doing his best for the EU and George. Thus, New Mandalorians, Ryloth's new rotation, Mortis, Evan Piell and Adi Gallia. All of which came from George directly.
  8. Dark-Fox Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2008
    star 2
    Strangely, I don't hate the Mortis trilogy despite how little sense it makes. If I see it as a force dream or vision I can except it and enjoy it without trying to figure out it's impact on the saga beyond being allegory of the fall of the jedi and sith. Plus, it had Qui-Gon in it!

    I understand poor Dave Filoni is in a difficult position and I think he is doing a good job. In fact, I have been inspired to re-read the Thrawn trilogy because of the Star Destroyer manoeuvre he mentions in one of the dvd extras. I didn't enjoy the Thrawn books when I first read them but that was a long time ago now, maybe I'll see them with fresh eyes.

    I know a little about Ali Gallia, Evan Piell, Eeth Koth and the Mandalorians but what is this about Ryloth, Sinre? Was it a massive change? Is there any major change to EU material that really irked you but which you accepted over time?
  9. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    Oh, don't mistake me - I love Mortis and Abeloth.

    Ryloth wasn't the biggest thing. But it was supposed to be tidally locked so it has no day or night over the same location. But TCW did. It's surmountable, but it's a change. The New Mandalorian stuff has been retconned, but Evan and Adi I have no idea about until its fixed.
  10. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    I just don't see the point of Mortis and Abeloth, because I don't believe the balance of the Force needed to be personified. The Order of the Whills and the Celestials are only higher beings that I can deal with.
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  11. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    Well, the Ones are Celestials.
  12. Mitth_Fisto Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 6
    I always thought from the rare Rhyloth episode that I watched that instead of it being a true night, the region might of invested in sun blocking satelights similar to those used in Center Station to rotate around the globe giving the investing cities/towns temporary night conditions to ease living conditions a little. An easy re-retcon I think ;)

    And Sinre, that connection I believe has so far only been hinted at, not confirmed.
    Last edited by Mitth_Fisto, Nov 14, 2012
  13. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    The Celestials engineered the Maw and the Corellian system, not this Throne of Balance osik.
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  14. Dark-Fox Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2008
    star 2
    I confess to having been lost for quite a bit of this conversation but reading wookieepedia has given me the basics. Those controversial elements like Abeloth, Throne of Balance, Celestials and Ones are all quite new ideas to the SW universe. Are they indicative of a shift in thought for the powers that be behind the scenes at Lucasfilm? I ask because anything that has such major revelations into the origin and workings of the force, that can either add to or diminish some of it's mystery must surely have been a subject of much debate for being given the thumbs up?

    But it was a change that wasn't necessary, surely? I'm struggling to recall when any story plotpoint on Ryloth hinged on it's rotational cycle. You'll have to remind me. Maybe it was just an oversight?
  15. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    But if Ryloth had no rotation, would it have no gravity too? ISTR that the rotation of our lump of rock is the major component of our 'standard G'.
  16. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    The Celestials aren't new, they have been around for a while, and were thought to have engineered the Maw and the Corellian system long before the likes of Mortis existed.

    Ryloth is tidal locked, like our moon, Luna, meaning its axial rotation is as long as its orbit.
  17. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Thanks, Zeta. However when the Rogues went there in Bacta War, they weren't bouncing all over the place in low G, were they? Our moon is, ISTR, 1/6 of Earth Standard G.
  18. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Nope- if anything rotation reduces effective gravity.

    That's why gravity is very, very slightly higher at the poles on Earth. Part of it has to do with the poles being closer to the core than the equator is (since gravitational strength is inversely proportional to distance from centre of planet) but part of it's to do with lack of centripetal force.

    If the Earth was not rotating at all- then the "pull" would be very slightly higher at the equator than it is now, but not by much.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Nov 18, 2012
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  19. Dark-Fox Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2008
    star 2
    ^ Nice bit of science Iron_Lord :-BI'm going to have to take your word on it.

    @Zeta1127 was Mortis an attempt to tie two pieces of lore into one? I'm struggling to understand why anything that goes deep into the nature of the force, especially if it involves god-like beings, was allowed into the series without being expanded upon.
  20. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    Mortis came before Abeloth, and Mortis was dictated by George Lucas himself. Abeloth was revealed to be the fourth member of the Ones Family in her latest outing. The novels in Luke's time were going to feature a fallen Celestial in some shape or form which was attached to Centerpoint and the Maw, and the canon-lords decided merging them made sense - which is does.

    The TCW is controversial anyway, and the direction Luke's era has gone in post-NJO has also been quite controversial. I, on the other hand, love the 22 books after the NJO... The so-called Tragedy of Jacen Solo.
  21. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    I am definitely one of those people who feels alienated by all of that.
  22. zark Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2009
    star 4
    I feel alienated by parts. I mean, I can't stand the abeloth/throne of balance stuff, but I really enjoyed the character progression for a lot of the FotJ. I loved Ben for instance. And I like the subtle and not so subtle hints toward the one Sith that is emerging. I'm actually really looking forward to that. Though I speculate that they herald Luke's death.

    Sent from the future using psychic implants.
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