[COMM/JCC] The purpose of this forum

I'm only interested in replacing the October 2003 stuff with the April 2003 stuff. I haven't dug into both sets to compare them in detail.

My use of "rubbish", "garbage" and "abomination" for the October stuff, is only meant in hyperbole. But, I suppose, specifically of relevant importance to the issue which caused all this - the "spam" definition in the October rules is inadequate and off-base in terms of the progress and changes made since that bit was *originally* written.

See the Spam v. Fluff thread for the changes.

Vertical

 

once again, KK, you are trying to fix something that isn't really broken. you did it to comms and now you want to do it to JCC. everything is fine, just leave things alone. situation normal, etc.

but what really bothers me is the fact that there is very little support for KK's "vision" of the JC. where are all the mods who agree with all of this? we have 3 admins- one of whom disagrees with KK and one of whom is the "head admin" yet never shows up for the game, so to speak (does the "head admin" position even mean anything anymore??). we have many ex-mods, who have absolutely proven the value of their knowledge and experience, and many intelligent members, who have all been completely disagreeing with and picking apart the blatant flaws and illogic of this one man mission to "fix" the JC.

so who is really running the show here? one admin, with little to no public support from the rest of the MS, and a lot of dissent from the regular members and ex-mods, seems to be trying to run the show by himself. there's something wrong with this picture.

 

yes^^^^^

this is why raven needs to start his own dictatorship, starting with the removal of his fellow admins.

 

Kimball - I'm not saying anything new here, but you have said that your knowledge of YJCC is limited and that you prefer to leave the discretion of a given forum's rules (in this case, YJCC) to the moderators in charge.

Yes, along with 95% of everyone else here, I wish that at least one YJCC mod would provide their point of view on this matter. But this forum is called Communications for a reason... if the mods responsible aren't communicating, then why the hell is this forum even in existence?

Nobody's stopping you from spending just a few minutes a week to familiarize yourself with YJCC. I know it's not one of your priority forums, but as far as the JC as a whole is concerned, it is. It is one of the three largest forums this board has, and also one of the most sporadically and inconsistently moderated.

Nobody's stopping you from taking a stand and at least considering holding a discussion to add a moderator to YJCC - of the four mods I see two of them on a good day - one that knows the ins-and-outs of the forum, one that's not afraid to voice their opinions in Communications, and one that is aware of the most current rules - yes, the April 03 rules, not those archaic "helpful hints" that don't really do all that much good. Vertical's right, take that sticky out, and replace it with the rules that were set up in April of last year. They can be easily changed or added to as necessary.

 

By dismissing them, you are setting a tone for anyone else giving their input into this, or any other discussion and that tone says, "If you aren't a part of the current administration, don't bother posting."

I would agree that we shouldn't dismiss our hard working former administrators so easily.


And the fact that no YJCC mods are making their presence felt is kinda sad. Especially the one who started this whole mess.

Well, I understand why they don't come and post in Comms more often. Folks in Comms are often very brutual to the YJCC mods.


Rules that sit hidden under 6 months of posts without even a link might as well not exist.

So true.

 

Well, I understand why they don't come and post in Comms more often. Folks in Comms are often very brutual to the YJCC mods.

I used to think people here were too tough on the YJCC mods too. Now, I really don't think that's the case. There seems to be real ongoing problems going on. Sometimes where there's smoke, there really is fire. A fire that could be helped to be put out if some YJCC mods start showing up here and joining in on the conversation.

 

Well, I understand why they don't come and post in Comms more often. Folks in Comms are often very brutual to the YJCC mods.

Well, what do you expect, when they don't post here, and problems involving the YJCC don't get resolved to people's satisfaction. I mean, there's a REASON for the "brutal" treatment.

 

Well, I understand why they don't come and post in Comms more often. Folks in Comms are often very brutual to the YJCC mods.

All the more reason for them to come into Comms and try to build a relationship / dialogue with their detractors (and at the juncture we're at now, a public relationship is key). Because at the moment, (and from reading the threads in here), that relationship seems non-existant. It seems like it's only ex-mods and regular users who come in and endlessly debate the JCC, not the JCC mods themselves. Which is unbelievable! And so the hostility grows. The longer the silence lasts, the worse things will get.

 

This treatment has nothing to do with their frequency of posting in Comms. That's talking two separate issues.


All the more reason for them to come into Comms and try to build a relationship / dialogue with their detractors (and at the juncture we're at now, a public relationship is key).

I'm not saying they should avoid Comms, I'm saying it's a natural reaction to many of the posts which are made towards them and/or their forum. Like it or not, they should be checking in to the discussion, but I don't blame them for not wanting to.

Of course, there is a solution...

**Reaches for Delete Comms button**

**Raven slaps hand away**

**Reaches for it again**

**Raven slaps hand again**

Darn it, I was reaching for the "post" button!

 

Yeah, it's two separate causes for the same thing, in my opinion. Not showing up in Comms very often (if at all) often certainly doesn't HELP their brutal treatment, does it?

 

Like it or not, they should be checking in to the discussion, but I don't blame them for not wanting to.

There we are then. They may not find it a pleasant thing to have to do now that it's come this far, but they still must. And they're not.

Not posting here and not contributing to concerned discussion taking place about their forum only makes the brutal treatment even more brutal when they finally do arrive. It's like putting off doing something you don't want to do, the longer you leave it, the worse it gets.

 

I'm not saying they should avoid Comms, I'm saying it's a natural reaction to many of the posts which are made towards them and/or their forum. Like it or not, they should be checking in to the discussion, but I don't blame them for not wanting to.

IT'S PART OF THE JOB. Apparently the YJCC moderation staff has yet to grasp this concept that there's more to being a moderator than posting in the Mod Squad 50% of the time, and edit posts and lock threads the rest of the time (an exaggeration, yes, but I'm trying to make a point)

When a thread concerning their forum is created in Comms, the forums' mod(s) are obligated to read the thread and post how they feel about the specified issue.

People here have requested the YJCC mods to participate, but not one of the four have said so much as a peep yet. As I said before, this is the Communications forum, and when the communicating is one-sided, you know there's a problem.

This problem will NOT have a chance of resolution unless a YJCC mod steps in here and gives their explanation as to why there's so many inconsistencies in moderation there. If they say " My decision stands and that's final", then that's that, at least there's a sense of closure that the member who questioned the mod's actions did all that he could do even though he personally may not agree with the mod's decision.

 

IT'S PART OF THE JOB.

quoted for emphasis.

 

IT'S PART OF THE JOB.

See, there you go. I agreed they will have to come and post (exact words were "Like it or not, they should be checking in to the discussion"), and yet I get bold posts thrown in my face, and honestly I think they'll be treated much more harshly than this (as I have seen in the past).

Try having a busy life (school/work, depending) then logging onto a forum with your free time only to have to spend a good amount of that time dealing with rule violations and drama in said forum, then see how eager you are to come into Comms and face the masses.

I'm not saying they shouldn't post here. They need to deal with this topic, and they will, but you can't blame them for not even wanting to click the "Comms" link to see if their forum's being discussed each and every day.

My point: All I'm saying is do you guys have to give them so much grief when you have concerns? The hostilities achieve little aside from creating bitter ex-mods.

And with that, I will now delete Comms.

**Slapped by Raven**

Ow! I was only joking.

**waits for Raven to log off**

 

See, there you go. I agreed they will have to come and post (exact words were "Like it or not, they should be checking in to the discussion"), and yet I get bold posts thrown in my face, and honestly I think they'll be treated much more harshly than this (as I have seen in the past).

Puh-leeze. That is hardly harsh at all. What you call harsh I call reality. I meant nothing by it on a personal level, I was simply emphasizing the fact that dealing with people and issues in Comms. is unavoidable. They will obviously see things they might not like, but hey, this is just an Star Wars message board and 9 times out of 10, no matter how complicated things get here, real life gets far hairier.

Try having a busy life (school/work, depending) then logging onto a forum with your free time only to have to spend a good amount of that time dealing with rule violations and drama in said forum, then see how eager you are to come into Comms and face the masses.

I satisfy the first part of your statement for sure.

Although drama and discussing forum policy isn't exactly uncommon here, it could be a lot worse. Every once in a while there's going to be a controversial and/or heated discussion in Comms. (and this is one of them) and since these don't happen every day, the mods should count their lucky stars how good they have it most of the time.

My point: All I'm saying is do you guys have to give them so much grief when you have concerns? The hostilities achieve little aside from creating bitter ex-mods.

My post in no way meant to be derogatory, inflammatory, harsh or *insert big, fancy word*-tory. I *could* have put it in a harsher, meaner tone, but fortunately I have the diplomacy not to do so. I'm trying to be frank without coming across as a jerk, and I'm sure many others are in the same boat as I am.

And as Cheri stated, the 'harshness' seen here is not as much of a problem as the lack of YJCC moderator input. Nothing can be truly resolved without them.

 

I'm always for open communication, I'm not going to be 'harsh' on anyone. I know what it's like being on the other side of the fence.

I just want discussion to be possible.

Vertical

 

Yeah, the place is quite harsh to the JCC mods.

But...well, the best way to deal with it is to front up, and talk to the members. Like it or not, them pointing out your flaws is the best way to learn what you need to improve on to make you a better mod.

When I started here, I had a lot of arguments in my first month or 6 weeks. I had 2 ways to deal with it: Keep fighting, or talk to those that I was arguing with, and try to discuss things with them. I went with the latter option, and I approached them. I let them know why I was having issues with them, and they let me know why they were having issues with me.

We talked, we saw each others points, and we all made the effort to clean up our acts. It was for the best for them, for me, and for the JCC.

I didnt have to do it, but I figured it was the best thing for all concerned.

Avoiding the people that have issues isnt always the best idea. Talk to them, and learn from it.


EDIT: And Vert, stop stealing my icon, dammit!

 

Seriously, I can't tell you two apart!

Avoiding the people that have issues isnt always the best idea. Talk to them, and learn from it.

Very true. The JCC gets hammered because it's a very active forum with the most "catch-all" purpose. So, of course, if you've got a place where people can joke about everything under the sun except Star Wars there are going to be disagreements. But you don't solve anything by ignoring people who want to discuss things. That just contributes to the feeling that the mods don't give a crap. Which, by the way, is bad.

 

A good way to avoid assumptions, ill will, miscommunication and misunderstandings is just to be here, participating in discussion. Just being here goes a good ways to helping matters. Even if people don't agree with a particular view on something, at least you're here.

 

[image=http://realgar.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/alan/pix/grand-canyon.jpg]

Echo... echo... echo... ec

 

Yellow leader reporting in.

 

Alright, I'm going to go off on a slightly related tangent here...

I don't understand why some moderators (not limited to only those currently helping... this is true for all the years I've been here) don't frequent this forum. It's really bizarre to me.

When I was asked to be a moderator, I was only too eager to help out, and to offer my assistance in both my 'home' forum and Communications. I mean, people volunteer because they want to help, right? Well, helping shouldn't be limited to just keeping redundant posts off the boards... it should be showing up here, addressing issues that members have.

If there was a problem being discussed in Comms, I was always happy to discuss it, and work it out, or at least come to an understanding. I see only a small handful of moderators do this now. Where did the desire to help go?

I ask this in hopes of an answer - why do so few mods come to Communications?

Do you think it's because they don't want to enter the 'drama' pit that some think it is (it *is* possible to post as a moderator here and remain above the drama, you know)?

Do moderators simply not feel it necessary to explain rules, respond to ideas, field suggestions, etc?

Should it be impressed upon new moderators that it is part of their job to come in here and respond to issues? Should it be part of a moderator's job to come in here and respond to issues?

I think it should.

Part of me feels that perhaps this is simply due to the whole concept of distributed responsibility... There are so many moderators, that there could possibly be a feeling of "Well, I'm sure someone is looking in on Communications and handling things, I don't need to worry about it"... It has become the 'group's' responsibility, as opposed to falling to each individual moderator.

I'm rambling.

I just wish I saw more moderators *wanting* to take an active role in this forum. I mean, they volunteered to help, so help us resolve these issues! Sure, we can't always agree on everything, but we should at least give everything a chance at discussion...

Vertical

 

Vert, this is more approros than you could know. I've been hammering this point all morning in the MS along with Raven. Comms is the responsibility of all moderators, ESPECIALLY when it's regarding you or your own forum.

 

Ok, at what point are the YJCC mods going to grace us with their presence here? To me, this is beyond absurd. Not one word from three of the mods in there. How is this acceptable??? This thread has been going on three days now. Is it really too much to ask, to have someone who is supposed to be keeping up with their forum? I've been very moderate with my comments so far, but this is like a kick in the face. I used to think it's a learning curve type thing, but it clearly isn't the case now. If you are too busy to post, step down. It's time to end this nonsense. I'm sorry if the tone of this is too harsh, but enough is enough!

edit: Well damn, I didn't see Vert and Sape's comments before I posted my little rant here.

 

I note that JMT hasn't logged on since the early morning of the 27th, and that nashira has been online since this thread was active and hasn't set foot in it.

Both are just facts.