ST Common Misconceptions about TFA and TLJ

I've noticed, pretty frequently in fact, that in discussions about Star Wars there are plot points, story beats, moments that get repeated as fact, but that actually didn't happen in the films. Some are seemingly implied, and some just widely mis-remembered. This is true saga wide.

What are some of the discrepancies you've noticed about how people recollect TFA/TLJ?

I'll start:

Luke never tried to kill Ben. He had a brief temptations that passed, like a shadow.

Your turn!

 

1) TFA
The map to Skywalker was not a map to Skywalker. Luke never left a map on R2 waiting to be found later.

It was a map to the first Jedi temple, and R2 had a piece of it. R2 downloaded that piece from the archives of DS1.
This is why the First Order also had the first piece of the map.

People close to Luke said he was trying to find the first Jedi temple, therefore concluded that he would be there.

2) TLJ
Luke did not "merely sensed darkness in Ben".

Luke did see moments of dark side during his training, but did not understood how severe it was until the point when he looked inside him and saw that his darkness was way beyond the point where he even imagined.

 

To be fair, the whole map thing is borderline incoherent. It’s definitely a map to the first Jedi temple, but there are numerous references to it being a map to Luke Skywalker. Realistically, it seems to be a portion of a map that shows Luke’s likely location. But maybe a distinction without a meaningful difference.

What is really confusing is (1) why LST has the missing portion of the map; (2) why the Empire has a map with all but the missing section; and (3) whether and how the complete map shows Luke’s location with any precision.

If Luke indeed “went looking” for the first Jedi temple, that implies that he did not have a map to the exact location. At best he had a map of an otherwise uncharted portion of the galaxy, and somewhere in that portion of the galaxy was the first Jedi temple. Depending on how many systems/plants were in that portion of the galaxy, the size of the search area could vary pretty widely.

Of course, it’s possible that Luke went searching without any map, and that LST independently obtained a an actual map to Ach-To, which as it happens, also fills in a blank spot (one of many?) in the Empire’s master navigational chart downloaded by R2.

Which is all to say that TFA is generally very vague about the “map.”

 

As best as I can see, pre-Ben's far Luke and LST spend time looking for clues to the first Jedi Temple.

Luke later finds his own way to the Temple, without telling anyone how to get there.

Luke has vanished.

LST is eventually able to piece together a partial map to the Temple - hoping that it can lead Leia to Luke so that the Jedi can return to the galaxy.

The other half of the map that enables the other fragment to be oriented was in the Imperial archives - which Artoo had downloaded and had in his memory.

Presumably the Imperial archives never had the references to the first Jedi temple in the first place. I'm assuming the puzzle/ missing piece feel is purely for a simple visual, but I guess you could extrapolate that at some point someone erased that section from the archives for whatever reason.

It is a bit refrigerator logic, but I think it holds up for the purposed of the films.

 

One thing that was definately very popular was the "Kylo Ren got beaten badly by Finn and Rey" myth.
The movie played it all out in a rather obvious way, yet people somehow ended up with this weird conclusion.

The first hint we are getting is Han trying out Chewie's bowcaster. Multiple times we get to see how powerful that weapon is, and how it can blast people away. Later on, Chewie fires at Kylo Ren and injuries him badly. That he even managed to stand afterwards was a miracle, and should have shown anyone how strong he actually is. This whole injury thing was made even more clear when he was punching himself multiple times, with blood appearing.

Then we get to the fight between Kylo Ren and Finn. Finn is brash, but that's about it. Kylo Ren completely toys with him, barely giving an effort. He's using only one hand, and is prancing around instead of trying to finish off Finn. Finn manages to get one shot in, a lucky blow to the shoulder. This is basically mirroring Vader vs. Luke in ESB. In the later stages of that fight, Luke has no chance whatsoever, but manages to land once swing that hits Vader's shoulder. Once Kylo Ren gets hit by Finn, he actually turns serious, and the fight is over quickly.

Then Rey comes in. She tries a few swings, but nothing of that bothers Kylo Ren at all. The entire time up until they end up on the widening trench, Rey is falling back, almost running away from Kylo Ren. Then, and only then, when she opens herself up to the force, does she gain the strength to overpower Kylo Ren. That may have come rather quickly, but one shouldn't forget that Kylo Ren was far from being healthy.

In conclusion: a badly wounded Kylo Ren, who probably shouldn't even be alive after taking such a hit, toys with Finn and Rey, until Rey has her "awakening". Finn wasn't anywhere close to even competing with him, and Rey wasn't beating him easily either.

 

"Poe's mutiny happened because Holdo didn't share her plans with him."

Wrong : Poe only organized his mutiny after learning Holdo's plan. He rebels against her because he fundamentally disagrees with her plan : to him abandonning the Raddus is nothing short of treason.
(which only proves Holdo's decision to "put Poe on the bench" was the right call)

 

The best of these will also be added to the FAQ and character motivation thread in time. So, please keep them coming. Even if posted as responses in the plot holes thread. This is a great start and easy to read.

 

I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that Poe knew only about the ships, but he didn't know about the planet, which was the only reason why the plan actually made sense. So I disagree with you.

 

"Luke saved the resistance"

The Resistance no longer exists. It literally has no ships or allies or army or resources. The Resistance lost the war. Luke even says, "the rebellion is reborn today." What was the rebellion? A ragtag group of people trying to overthrow the status quo evil fascist regime ruling the galaxy. The Resistance, OTOH, was a military organization defending the status quo Republic. The Resistance lost, the Republic is dead, the Resistance no longer exists. Luke saved a handful of survivors from the losing, massacred, decimated side of a war.

Didn't he say that abandoning the raddus was suicide? I thought Poe's position was that the FO would look out the window and see them escaping and shoot them. Leia told him that the FO wouldn't notice, and then the FO only noticed after DJ inexplicably knew and told them what they could have just looked out the window and seen. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I don't recall Poe's objection having anything to do with not knowing about Crait. He couldn't look out the window either?

 

That's a really good one. I see that posted at length here. I never blamed Holdo, and yet even I couldn't have put this so succinctly.

 

Oh, while we're on that point, here's another misconception: "The sequel trilogy reinvents Star Wars."

 

Don't stress too much the fact that they were few people, otherwise we'll have to start again discussing about who the hell publicized the Legend of Luke Skywalker to the whole galaxy

 

Must have been one of those people who never came to the Resistance's aid.

 

Do you have a misconception you'd like to share?

 

You do realise that most things that are happening are only being seen by a very small number of people, yes?
That's how spreading information works. One person tells other people, those tell yet another group of people, and so on. Basically all the information out there came from a tiny group and spread from there. How else do you think do people become popular? They don't suddenly pop into existence with everyone knowing about them. They are popular among a tiny group who spread the word, and the more people who get told about them, the quicker the message can spread. It simply snowballs from there.

 

You're right sorry for the spam.
Here it is:
The Jedi books were not burnt "in the temple but saved by Rey
Better?

 

Wow thank you for this enlightening and educational response. All I did is state fact after fact after fact. If the message of the saga is contrary to facts that occurred in the movie, is it my fault that I missed it or the writer's?

 

Kylo Ren was not only wounded and not actually trying to kill Rey, but he was also emotionally unhinged at that point. He killed his father in an attempt to put an end to the inner conflict that was tearing him apart, but instead he just ripped that psychological wound open even further.

Rey was clumsily trying to hold her ground against Kylo throughout the first part of the duel; even in his wounded and unstable state, he could have ended it any time he wanted to. Rey has a moment where she quiets her mind and connects with the Force, allowing it to guide her and give her focus -- just inches in front of Kylo's face -- but he is so wrapped up in his own inner turmoil that he is totally oblivious to what has happened until it is too late. This duel is a spiritual battle as much as it is a physical one; Kylo is "lost in the woods" while Rey discovers her path forward. Harping on how much lightsaber training each participant has is missing the forest for the trees.

 

Well, we're clearly lacking the IQ required to enjoy Rick and Mo-I mean, the sequel trilogy. Sorry, I'm getting both fanbases confused at this point.

 

Ahsoko's right though.

The Resistance, for all intents and purposes, seems to be dead by the close of TLJ. It looks like we're back in Rebellion territory.

Just like the Republic died at the close of ROTS. There was still just enough left of it, thanks to a core group of dedicated senators, to mount a Rebellion.

 

You want to know the difference though? That was actually part of a much better story than this one. Not to mention that those Senators actually had...you know...connections, resources and political power.

 

Exactly. I have been saying all along. The appropriate comparison to the state of the galaxy at the end of TLJ is RotS, not ESB or R1 or any of the other comparisons people have tried to make.

Wait, you're going to ban me for reacting to you being so personally condescending toward me with a non-substantive response? Wow.

I wasn't talking about what SW was about. I stated a fact that Luke didn't save the Resistance. Despite everything that you just said, he still didn't save the Resistance. It's still gone.

 

Could you troll somewhere else?