Communism: Can it work or is it a pipe dream?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by KaineDamo, Jul 7, 2002.

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  1. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    Ok, thats the question. What are your answers?



    Thread shift...
  2. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    America is a capitalist country.

    Capitalism and communism are the opposite extremes of the political spectrum.

    Hence American (capitalist) hates anything communist.
  3. Warsloth Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 1
    yeah, you probably like communism dont you kaine...

    communism gives everyone the same miniscule wages no matter what, no one owns anything, and there is absolutely NO freedom of religion, or other freedoms for that matter.
    religions are something that communists try hard to supress.
    communism is basically a form of slavery, and your owners are the members of the political regime.

    yeah, and that capitolism thing...
  4. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    I actually like the idea of everyone earning the same as everybody else. But as with every political system, there are some faults in communism. But these can be overcome if so many people just didn't dismiss the whole idea of communism altogether without giving it a second fault.
  5. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    I neither like Capitalism and Communism.

    I'm more in between.

    I think complete freedom is wrong, the goverment should control some stuff in order to let everything work...

    I think if the USSR and USA worked everything between them. Then they could perhaps create a system that does work correctly and prevent having poorverty(sp?)

    That's my opinion....

  6. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    communism gives everyone the same miniscule wages no matter what, no one owns anything, and there is absolutely NO freedom of religion, or other freedoms for that matter.
    religions are something that communists try hard to supress.
    communism is basically a form of slavery, and your owners are the members of the political regime.


    And that just goes to show how little you know about communism.

    USSR was NEVER a true communist country.
  7. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    Communism is good in theory, but when implemented into the real world, rarely does it work out.

    Why do we hate it?

    It's a different type of government compared to ours. Sort of an "Us against Them" mentality.

    We have only seen the negative results that have come about when countries adopt this type of government.

    Our government made a big deal about it for a long time. (The Cold War)

    I personally don't hate it. Like I said, if it worked as well in the real world as it does in theory, it would be great.

    Our government doesn't work as well in the real world as it does in theory either, but it keeps trying.

    That's just my thoughts.

    Latre! :D

  8. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    There is a difference between Communism and Socialism.

    The USSR under Stalin was Communist, had Leon Trotsky won his bid for power it would have been Socialist.

    China under Mao was Communist, China is still has a Communist government, but with a Capitalist market.
  9. Warsloth Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 1
    from the sound of things omega is a socialist.
    I was just pointing out why I hate communism. I know a lot more about communism than you think, so get off it.
    capitolism is the best, most up to date system of government. Communism was a great fantasy, that in reality became a farse.
  10. Ariana Lang Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 1999
    star 5
    Well, Communism in theory is a very nice system. Unfortunately, true Marxist communism relies on the fact that the people in power will happily give up their power -- which has never happened in a communist country. USSR, Chinese, and Vietnamese "communism" have basically just been corrupt dictatorships masquerading under the name of communism.




    And KaineDamo -- I know you are not fond of America, that's quite obvious in the two threads you have posted, but couldn't you be just a TAD less condescending? I mean, you're telling Americans that we have this view of "We're better than everyone else" but frankly, those are the vibes I'm getting from YOU.
  11. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    War Sloth, it's Capitalism, not Capitolism...you've said that twice.

    Secondly, if you know so much about Communism then why is it so bad? In theory, Communism is the best system of them all, but, it will not work due to human nature.

    Capitalism on the other hand, IMO, is a horrible system, yes it works, nice, but it's not good, do you think it's good that 10% of the people have 90% of the wealth? I don't. Give me healthcare, I'd rather pay some more taxes and not die because I couldn't afford to pay the docter then the other way around.
  12. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    If people won't give up their freedom voluntarily, then in theory it's not so great either, how can a theory that has no basis in reality be good?

    Communism is anti individual, pro hive mind. I can't speak for all Americans, but for me it's not the type of society i would choose to live in. Another question would be 'why do communists hate captialism?' In the end the system they continually try to implement is always harsher and more inhumane than any "earn your success" system they were retaliating against. Captialism =more individual freedom, better general standard of life.
    Communism= the opposite.

    Edit-

    Give me healthcare, I'd rather pay some more taxes and not die because I couldn't afford to pay the docter then the other way around.

    What percentage in taxes of your income do you think is fair to ensure you get good health care?
  13. Yodave27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2001
    star 4
    So how many of these "Why does the US hate/kill/maim threads are we gonna have?

    Hey, KaineDamo, if you're going to start a thread in the Senate, try not to have such biased statements in your subject line.

  14. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    Secondly, if you know so much about Communism then why is it so bad? In theory, Communism is the best system of them all, but, it will not work due to human nature.

    Try telling that to my parents. God dang did they chew me to bits after I had said something like that to them.

    I couldn't even get past the words "In theory" before they started chewing me out.

    The mentioning of the word is like taboo in my household.
  15. TOUCHPUMP Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2002
    star 1
    I do not hate communists. I do not think American's hate communists or communism, but our perception of communism is based on realities of totalitarian communist states.

    The problem with communism is that it is against human nature. Humans like gratification. Getting paid for what you do is gratifying.

    Even in an ideal communist "state" it is difficult to find motivation. As an auto maker what would be your motivation for making new and safer automobiles for a population? It would have to be a pure desire for engineering improvement and caring for the population's safety. While capitalist auto makers may have those motivations, they also have profit and laws to motivate them.

    It will take a great world event for societies to accept a form of communism. Think of the movie "Contact." If humanity had a common unifying goal then it might happen. It would take a massive event, and even then I think it would only be temporary as power hungry people can't ever be eliminated.
  16. Herman Snerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 1999
    star 6
    I actually like the idea of everyone earning the same as everybody else.

    I have to ask: Why?


    Assume two people.

    PersonA works on the assembly line lifting widgets off the conveyor and placing them in a box for transport. His job requires no skill and he could be replaced by anyone off the street without a drop in job performance.

    PersonB invented the aforementioned widget, and parlayed his idea into a multi-billion company that provides jobs for tens of thousands of people and has been a boon for society. PersonB is the driving force behind the company's success, and if he is removed the company would experience financial ruin.


    Now, should these two (admittedly extremely stereotypical) people really receive the same compensation for their efforts?
  17. Garli Pesan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2000
    star 4
    I think commies are stupid for being idealists. Since we've all seen the results of communism and we all know, it doesn't rid the world of poverty, we know it doesn't work. (Except on extremely small scales, such as kibbutzes.)

    Since I have a distaste for all people who can't face up to reality, it's a natural progression to dislike communists.
  18. Face Loran Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 1999
    star 4
    I don't hate communists. I'm not a fan of communism, but I have no ill will towards the people who believe in it.
  19. EnforcerSG Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2001
    star 4
    What I like about capatalism is that it lets a person who works hard should suceed. With communism, someone said it above, how two people of extream oppisists in terms of skills/intelegence..ect will get the exact same life.

    In the modern versions of Communism, the fact that one cannot suceed will also in a way hurt society. I mean, there is little motavation to do well or develop new stuff, especally if it is not your place to develope new stuff.

    Communism is good in theory, but in practis it wont work. Why? A great line form George Orwell, "Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others."
  20. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Human nature will keep communism from ever truly working. That's a fact set in stone.

  21. Coolguy4522 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    First of all, we don't hate communists, we hate communism, but we don't really hate it so much as totally disagree with it.

    However, I would say that in THEORY, it works out nicely, but there is simply NO way for man to impliment it. Capitalism may give a few a large percentage of the wealth to a relative few, but it also gives greater wealth to everyone. In Russia, the rich have everything, while the poor have nothing. In America, the rich have alot, but the poor are pretty well off, and we have a large middle class.

    For me, the ideal state would be one in which God would rule us, and we would willingly follow and all be one big happy family. We would have no excess or poor and everything would be great, but it isn't going to happen with the way man is today.
  22. Vaderbait Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 6
    It's not "Americans vs. Communists" it's Capitalists vs. Communists.

    In case you're completely ignorant to history, communism promises a Utopia that can't exist. They say people are equal, yet hold the peasants where they are, and the leaders drink the finest beverages, treat themselves to all these nice things.

    In essence, Capitalism and Communism is the same thing, just that in Capitalism, everyone can enjoy the wealth, in Communism, only who the leader wants to.

  23. Obi Anne FF admin Celebrations, Europe

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 1998
    star 7
    Hmm, I don't think that the workers in the 19th century would say that capitalism was the best way.

    Untamed capitalism is just as bad a communism, but please remember that no state in the world has never been truly communist, the USSR and it's allies were Marxist-Leninist.
  24. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    I was just pointing out why I hate communism. I know a lot more about communism than you think, so get off it.

    WTF!

    I never attacked you!

    What gave you that idea?!

    I was just saying my opinion! [face_plain]

    from the sound of things omega is a socialist.

    Is there something wrong with that?
  25. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    To him Omega, yes there is. Why do you think he said to me in his first reply to this topic "you would like communism Kaine, wouldn't you." He dislikes anyone with a different political view from his own. Hes used "commie" as an insult to me on a different topic aswell.

    Anyway, the subject of communism seems to be almost taboo to alot of Americans. Some people tend to dismiss it as "evil", or "wrong", without even really knowing the basics of what its all about, but just knowing what it can be used for if greedy politicians use it.

    To answer someones question from before, why do i like the idea of two people earning the same amount of money? Well, im sure that the PersonA example you used works really hard, and really long hours. PersonB has already done most of the work he needs to do. Why can't the both of them just live with what they need, and a little bit more? Do you want PersonA to live on 1 meal a day and a small house while PersonB has 7 meals a day and a really large mansion? Why can't they both have 3 meals a day, and live in comfortable houses? See, if all the wealth in the world was spread around, everyone would live not richly, but comfortably. But it wouldn't work in todays society.

    PS: I don't hate americans, i just strongly disagree with some of the politics. And i hate George Bush.
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