Communism in Star Wars

My teacher was blabbering on about communism in Star Wars but has not seen the movies. Is there any truth to that George made some characters to represent commies or is it just a farse to burn class time? Thanks.

 

Communism? I found these definitions of Communism:

1 a: a theory advocating elimination of private property b: a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed 2 a: a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics b: a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production

There are four definitions of Communism, and none of them describe what's going on in Star Wars.

In Star Wars, characters do own private property (privately owned speeders, starships, farms, etc.).
They seem to have a free-market economy (markets on Tatooine, farms, gas mines on Bespin).
The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is not a location that appears in Star Wars (it happens in this whole other galaxy).
The Empire is a totalitarian system of government, but does not own all means of production (farms again, gas mines again).

The Republic seemed to have the same type of economic system in place. The closest thing I can imagine referring to as Communist may be the Rebellion. It seems that given their on-the-go lifestyle, property and goods would have shared ownership and be distributed as needed. This would be because they are pooling their resources to survive, not because they see it as a superior system of government/economics. Their goal is to restore the Republic.

I think one of two things is occurring: 1) Your teacher hasn't the faintest clue about Star Wars (which is his or her right). He/she simply enjoys spewing meaningless opinions because it makes him/her feel cool to say things that will cause a stir.
2) Your teacher doesn't understand Communism. This is fine, so long as this person is not teaching history, political science/government, or economics.

I encourage you not to call your teacher out on this unless you are sure that he or she can be very cool about it. This is too silly to be worth creating an uncomfortable situation for you.

 

can't see it myself .

But didn't Reagan once call Russia "The evil empire" , I seem to remember some cartoons playing up the gag with vader on the russians side of the table .

 

Reagan had an ongoing Star Wars theme. The Soviet Union was deliberately compared to the Empire of Star Wars. This was propaganda used to make us fear and hate them to justify the outrageous spending on "defense". I don't know of any direct parallels ever being drawn.

 

I'm sure she will be cool about it, she regularly has to be corrected anyway by people when she is wrong, which is most of the time.

 

Communism is by no means a central or even prominent theme in the films. The economics of the galaxy are not covered in any depth. The closest example I can think of might be Kamino. This is mostly arising out of ignorance, but it seemed to be a centrally planned economy with communual and somewhat egalitarian living conditions. It was the planet responsible for the clone creation and development rather than a private company. I'm not saying that Kamino is a communist state--merely that there isn't a lot of information and it is possible. Lucas uses many historical examples to construct his stories.

That is a stretch and a very minor point in the six films.

-Seldon

 

I think Kamino isn't necessarily planned out in a sense that way, but that they don't have a big population if I recall correctly. Not to diverse of an economy when there isn't many people.

 

Star Trek (TNG era) is communist. Your teacher is simply confusing Wars and Trek

 

OMG, I think you're right! How many times was it said that production, knowledge, and economics all work for the common good, not for the benefit of the individual? The Federation is a Communist Utopia. Of course we have to realize that the theory of Communism was not conceived as the conduit of evil its image has evolved into.

 

Sounds like your teacher is evaluating SWs with the wrong label. Try:

fascism: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

GL makes many references to the Nazi Party from WWII. Officers with Gray Uniforms, stormtroopers who install fear in the public, and an Emporer who maintains domination with fear and who contols all aspects of the Republic/Empire.

 

While I don't want to turn this into a debate about what is and isn't communism or whether it's a good or bad thing, one slight correction. I've studied communist theory, and you do have private possessions such as vehicles and land to live on and use. You don't have private property with which to make profit. Also, Much of what the CCCP did was not true to communist theory.
That being said, Star Wars does not really have any communist themes. The closest thing you could probably find is Biggs discussing nationalization of commerce in the deleted Tatooine scenes, but nationalization isn't something exclusive to communist regimes.

 

The ANH novel seems to paint a very USSR-ian stripe across the Empire, when Biggs comes to visit Luke; he tells him that eventually, even Owen's farm would be owned by the Empire.

 

Star Trek's United Federation of Planets (or at least Earth) is supposed to be a socialist utopia, perhaps made possible at last due to replicator technology.

In Star Wars, the Trade Federation and its associates are portrayed as greedy, evil, and rather simple-minded. If Lucas is lampooning capitalism, he should remember that he is a billionaire thanks to a free market system that allowed the Star Wars saga to make him his fortune.

Perhaps one of these is what your teacher is referring to.

 

Maybe the Ewoks or Jawas are Communists

But seriously, she's never seen the movies but comment them?

 

I'd say it's a farce. My assumption is that as has been mentioned your teacher is drawing upon Reagan's old rhetoric that "The Force is with us(the U.S.)" and that the Soviet Union was "the evil Empire." The films to address authoritarian beliefs as a whole but nothing that would be so specific to the USSR that it wouldn't apply to other authoritarian regimes such as the Nazis(which were one of the main inspirations for the Empire.)

 

In the deleted scene with Biggs and Luke at Tosche Station (and in the novelisation as stated), Biggs mentions to Luke that the Empire is 'nationalising commerce'.


LUKE: I know, but he's got enough vaporators going to make the place
pay off. He needs me for just one more season. I can't leave him now.

BIGGS: I feel for you, Luke, you're going to have to learn what seems
to be important or what really is important. What good is all your
uncle's work if it's taken over by the Empire?...You know they're
starting to nationalize commerce in the central systems...it won't be
long before your uncle is merely a tenant, slaving for the greater
glory of the Empire.

LUKE: It couldn't happen here. You said it yourself. The Empire won't
bother with this rock.

BIGGS: Things always change.



That scene's not in the film but apparently what Biggs described did happen as noted here.

 

True, but given that Jedi_of_Valor's teacher hasn't even seen the movies I assume that he wasn't referencing the novelization.

 

Communism, what has become known as capitalism, fascism and many other rigid ideologies fostered on populations are usually controlled and promoted by the same types of people.

 

No communism. Dictator? Yes.

 

Capitalism is not a rigid ideology and does not even necessarily address the government structure (as there could conceivably be an oligarchy, democratic republic, monarch or autocrat ruling that society.)

Fascism and communism are totalitarian ideologies that seek to create a society of utter unanimity and single purpose and both practice politics as mass social movements of personal transformation as part of a collective and hold the State (call it what you will, effectively, the authority becomes the state) as supreme to all other considerations and the individual as of little worth except insofar as it supports it or is part of that collective movement.

 

Communism isn't totalitarian and you've demonstrated you know nothing about the ideology. I'd suggest at least doing some research before you try to engage in a political debate on a Star Wars forum. The debate in this thread is whether or not the Empire was a take on communism, which it isn't. It may draw some inspiration from totalitarian socialist states that, despite claiming to be communists, never were.

 

Don't tell me what I need to study. Communism, despite your take, has 'never been tried' because of the fact that in order to institute it, you need to engage in AT LEAST authoritarian measures, including wide-scale indoctrination of the citizenry.

The distinctions you draw are ones without meaning when it comes the real world application of those principles.

Just because you've studied something doesn't make you an expert. Hell, a couple of Marx's basic theories, let alone deviations from his ideas (Leninism, Maoism, Pol Pot's bizarre absolutist peasant-agrarian take on it) were disproven and discredited from jump. And if one looks at the Manifesto, it's clear the State is heavily involved as a 'transition'---a totalitarian one--- and oddly enough, when people get absolute power they don't give it over to some mythological 'class heroes.' Strange inn't?

Talk about not knowing anything. Study page ONE of history and get back to us.

 

While you didn't mention a specific history book, I'm almost certain page one in most of them doesn't start with Marx. I'm not going to fill this forum with citations and counterpoints because that isn't the point of this thread. I'm not coming here to be some champion of communist theory (nor do I even advocate them), but if you're going to engage in a thread drawing parallels between Star Wars and communism, at least know the basis of the ideals without relying on historical examples that deviated from the ideal (thus nullifying them as historical examples of said ideal).

P.S. At this point I will not reply to you unless you reply with regard to the original point of the thread.

 

In theory, the goal of communism is the 'greater good' over the individual. Communism has more to do with economics than it does with political idealogy. Communism promotes the establishment of a classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production. It started more as an economic theory but it leaders often must use force and suppression to get everyone on the same page to give up their individuality for the greater good. That is not the case with the Empire. I posted earlier that that the Empire is better described as a fascist regime based upon the above definition, and GL has given interviews in the past about the similarities of the Empire to the Nazi regime.