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Saga Compilation of direct trilogy mirrors (1-4, 2-5, 3-6) (Note: Image heavy)

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by HevyDevy, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. Dartht Punk

    Dartht Punk Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 17, 2014
    I sincerely hope so, as its part of the way Star Wars works.

    We can be reasonably sure Luke will be doing some Obi-Wan style stuff, and no doubt reusing the odd line or action.

    And surely we'll see some arms being cut off.
     
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  2. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Just something that came to mind yesterday...


    ROTJ

    Han peers at Lando's new insignia on his chest, and is amused.
    HAN
    "Well, look at you, a general, huh?"
    LANDO
    Oh, well, someone must have told them about my little maneuver at the battle of Taanab.
    HAN
    Well, don't look at me, pal. I just said you were a fair pilot. I didn't know they were lookin' for somebody to lead this crazy attack.
    LANDO
    I'm surprised they didn't ask you to do it.
    HAN
    Well, who says they didn't. But I ain't crazy. You're the respectable one, remember?


    ROTS
    Contrast this with Obi-Wan being chosen over Anakin to take on Grievous in ROTS.
     
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  3. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    I love this [face_love] Great work, HevyDevy!

    It would indeed be awesome if the third trilogy sticks to this mirroring tradition (I think we can safely consider it tradition since there's always been intentional mirroring within the trilogies as well). I'm sure some themes, scenes and pieces of dialogue will be repeated/inverted/twisted, but perhaps not to the insane extent that we've now gotten used to. Probably enough to make us feel at home, though!
     
  4. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Thanx!
    Sorry I didn't respond before, had to go to work right after posting on another thread.

    Yeah, I'm looking forward to episode seven despite the possibly grim outlook for intentional references to the PT. I understand that the OT is more popular, mostly IMO because it was executed better, so I am sure if the film is good I will still enjoy it. But I think JJ and crew are likely really missing an opportunity if they aren't particularly considering the prequels while making it. The reworking of the narrative (1-6) Lucas attempted when making the prequels was really quite ambitious, and you have to watch the six films together a fair bit to really appreciate it.

    Have you read the ring theory essay? Its the best solid theory on parallels I've seen, particularly the ones between 1-6, 2-5, and 3-4.
    I used to put in some input on the Galactic Symphony site years back, that was a pretty solid effort on the part of the creator as well. Really helped me see the films in a more complex light.
    My favourite mirrors are largely still between Ep1 and Ep3. Those two films kind of have a yin/yang thing going on. Very symbiotic, like the TPM theme perhaps hints at, also similarly with ROTS and ROTJ.
     
  5. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Oh, no worries. I'm a patient sort ;)

    I have now and I'm glad you recommended it! I saw it referenced when it was brand new, but didn't bother to look it up then.
    You know, I've always known that the saga was complex, but... wow! Consider my mind blown.
    Mike Klimo is absolutely right; The Star Wars Saga as created by George Lucas is truly brilliant. I'll never look at it the same way again.
    In fact, I think I'm going to try out a sort of inside-out viewing order to really open my mind a bit more: IV-III-V-II-VI-I.

    What does this mean for the new movies, though? I mean, now I truly understand just how complete the saga already is. It would seem, with the ring perspective in mind, that further episodes are basically meaningless, that nothing more could possibly be said, that a continuation will potentially disrupt the balance of the saga.
    On the other hand, it is possible that the Anakin ring will be overlapped by a Luke ring and that they together will form an even bigger ring. Then, the Luke ring could be overlapped by the next one and so on.
    That would, of course, require a conscious effort on the part of Lucasfilm to make it so and well, I guess it's possible that Lucas has let Kennedy in on the secret and that she'll try to keep the ring composition going. However, is it probable?

    Maybe Lucas himself prefers to just let his own six-episode saga be the perfectly balanced, self-contained story that it is and see the rest of the series as merely an amusing add-on.
     
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  6. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011

    Hmm. If I'm not mistaken, wouldn't this necessitate that TFA's plot structure be both a mirror and an inversion of ROTJ's plot? They would occupy the same place in the new ring that ANH and ROTS do in the old ring, after all.

    Could be hints of this in the trailer. The Falcon being chased through the engines of that starship very strongly echoes the Falcon's flight through the second Death Star's superstructure.

    But that could just be one of many helter-skelter references to the OT littered throughout the film. Personally, I find it kind of unlikely that Kennedy, Abrams, and co. would care that much about adhering to the structure, even if they knew about it.
     
  7. ThisHurricane

    ThisHurricane Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Great thread.
     
  8. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 10, 2005
    The_Phantom_Calamari: Yeah, I wouldn't bet on that either. It would be a nice surprise, though! Imagine George telling KK and JJ (heh) about the ring structure and them going "That's kind of cool. Worth looking into". I would never expect them to go to such extreme lengths as Lucas did, of course - and frankly, Lucas probably doesn't, either.
    There'll probably be a bit of parallellism in TFA and its successors, though. I think the makers know their Star Wars well enough to ensure that.
     
  9. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    I'm not even entirely sure how much of this Lucas himself does consciously, honestly. We know he's primarily a visual director in a lot of ways - it's possible he creates mirroring imagery without always being aware he's doing it, because that's just how he naturally directs.
     
  10. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    With both the visuals and the audio, I noticed a resemblence between the Radiant boarding the Saak'ak and the Millenium Falcon boarding the Death Star.
     
  11. BriXman

    BriXman Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015
    Don't know if this has been posted yet, but:
    RotS and RotJ:
    Two of the main villains die in the beginning of the movie (Dooku and Boba Fett).
     
  12. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Also, in AOTC Dooku reacts to Jango's death, paralleling Jabba reacting to Boba's death.
    Then a Skywalker takes out Dooku in Ep3, and a Skywalker takes out Jabba in Ep6.
     
  13. Heero_Yuy

    Heero_Yuy Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
  14. darthtimetraveller

    darthtimetraveller Jedi Knight star 3

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    Aug 9, 2015
    Nice analysis! Great thread!
     
  15. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 13, 2011
    Thanx!
     
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  16. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 20, 2005
    It's actually a fusion of that moment and the opening shot of ROTS, where Anakin and Obi-Wan's Jedi starfighters fly through an explosion with a cloud of smoke lashing the camera and momentarily obscuring the field of view.


    Might be helter-skelter, yes. All I'll say is, it's interesting, despite their tactical maligning of the prequel trilogy in certain comments at particular gatherings, and to the press, that some of the imagery is partly PT-derived (and that they've executed it in a similar way: e.g., digital ships and particle effects).

    What I mean is, it's actually not that interesting, and, in fact, rather predictable. But interesting in the sense that, they played to the mob, slyly rubbishing the prequels and telling the mob what it wanted to hear, only to then draw on prequel imagery and pull it off in the same way.
     
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  17. Hilal

    Hilal Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Nov 2, 2015
    Well, Cyrogenic, if anyone will appreciate this you will... I think I found something. I can't be the first person to notice this but the topic of "ring theory" really had me thinking. Also, there's "rings within rings".

    So basically, considering the OT, you have a "rhyme" where Yoda dies in 6, just as Ben died in 4. A lot of people think Qui-Gon died in 1 to mirror Ben dying in 4, but I disagree.
    Take the exact inversion of Ben and Yoda - two Jedi masters dying. What's the exact opposite of a Jedi master... a Sith apprentice.
    So, just as the first and last movie in the OT featured the death of a Jedi master, the first and last movies of the prequels feature the death of a Sith apprentice.
    Ben doesn't die until the end, and Maul doesn't die until the end.
    Yoda dies early in Return, and Dooku dies early in Revenge. Rings within rings.
     
  18. Obi-Wan's Apparition

    Obi-Wan's Apparition Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2000
    I like the way you think. :)
     
  19. Hilal

    Hilal Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Nov 2, 2015
    I think I might just be crazy is all
     
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  20. Hilal

    Hilal Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Nov 2, 2015
    Alright so how's this: keeping the direct inversion, why did qui-gon die? He was a Jedi master, so a Sith apprentice should die, and only one other character is cremated...
     
  21. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    ROTS: Palpatine dismisses Amedda and Moore when he's about to begin recruiting Anakin as an apprentice.
    ROTJ: Palpatine dismisses his guards when he's about to begin recruiting Luke as an apprentice.
     
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  22. PCCViking

    PCCViking Force Ghost star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014

    He even says "leave us" in the same tone of voice.
     
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  23. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I wonder if he was remembering.
     
  24. LZM65

    LZM65 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Here is another pair of double imagery:


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  25. Seagoat

    Seagoat PT and Music Section Dictator star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    It takes a little crazy to be a Star Wars fan, I think