Lit Complete Vehicles Rerelease: Lets dissect the Home One and Medical Frigate amongst other new stuff!

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CeiranHarmony, Jul 30, 2013.

  1. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Maybe Jason Fry can confirm this one.
  2. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5

    Even if he does, Filoni said they are meant to be the same as in Ep 3. [face_dunno]
  3. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    It's not like books with old ship sizes haven't continued to appear after a size retcon.

    DS1 was retconned to 160 km a few years back. Yet a book published in 2012 (Star Wars The Ultimate Visual Guide)
    used the 120 km figure- because the book was effectively a reprint with updates.

    This book is, to all intents and purposes, Complete Cross-Sections- with a few new entries, a few things cut, etc.

    Thus- it includes outdated data.

    Like the 26.7m Millennium Falcon length.
  4. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    It's 2013, everybody. Ship length debates are SO 2001.
    RC-1991, Gorefiend, Sarge and 3 others like this.
  5. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    And discrepancy between the ICS and Incredible Vehicles for every one of the ships that are in both? Because even the Venators and Acclamators have different lengths. Notably the TOS online encyclopedia - which covers both the movies and show are using the Incredible Vehicles sizes for both the Venators and the TF battleships.

    Except the TOS online encyclopedia also calls the Invisible Hand a "Separatist dreadnaught".

    The line was cut, as I can also attest. That should tell you something right there.
  6. AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    Nope, just moved on to other ships now that Executor is finally fixed.
    Viscount
    Home One
    Clone Wars vs RotS capital ships.

    Plenty to go yet.
  7. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    If we don't debate something, we might as well mothball the Fleet Junkie Thread, muster out the troops, and decommission our flagship. :p

    --Adm. Nick
  8. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    You people are so dreary. Can't we talk about something fun, like the intricacies of Imperial Court ceremonial? :p

    Anyway -- Home One is clearly 1.3km because the 3.8km model that XWAUpgrade made is buggy and crashes my game. QED.


    Misa ab iPhono meo est.
    Gorefiend likes this.
  9. darthscott3457 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2007
    star 3
    About as reasonable as an explanation as any with the given lengths. Too bad no republic ships got scaled up as well. I want to see that one mile isd barrier broken on a more frequent basis.
  10. blackmyron Force Ghost

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    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    Make a thread for it. I dare you.
  11. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    Oh man it would be the best ever. But I'm about to leave for a trip -- what if the thread became a hit and I missed out?


    Misa ab iPhono meo est.
  12. anotherdemon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2013
    star 2
    Yeah, that's right if you treat what we see in that picture as a different vessel to Home One. Home One was said to be the largest vessel in the Rebel fleet though, so larger vessels probably weren't there.
  13. anotherdemon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2013
    star 2
    Yes, Invisible Hand is scaled correctly in RotS and the ICS. It's close to a Venator in length.

    Invincible, Trench's ship, as about twice as long. As are the other few ships of Invincible's make we see.

    They're clearly two different designs.
    Tzizvvt78 likes this.
  14. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    Yup. As for the Recusants, it's the same thing, though the reference was cut. The Recusants in the show aren't even the same models as in ROTS, they have hangars with visible apertures on each side, similar to the Home Ones. The new version was also scaled to be bigger than the Venators, because there's a physical connection made with a docking ring in the very first episode that featured them. The movie version didn't tower over the Republic cruisers in the film. The ROTS:ICS deals with the ships of the film, so the new book isn't wrong to repeat this info.
    Last edited by Tzizvvt78, Aug 2, 2013
  15. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    Which Venator length would that be, exactly? ICS or Incredible Vehicles?

    Where exactly was Invincible shown alongside the Invisible Hand?

    It certainly is strange that TOS refers to the Invisible Hand as a "Separatist dreadnaught" and makes no comment about it being "smaller".


    It's always a possibility but by no means as "clear" as you are trying to make it out to be.
  16. AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    Home One has several sister ships of identical or near identical design.
  17. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    Meaning that the reference is noncanon - in fact, it circumstantially points to the other side, otherwise why cut the reference?

    Except that the TOS encyclopedia and Incredible Vehicles disagrees with the ICS on a number of ships.
  18. anotherdemon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2013
    star 2
    I'm comparing Invisible Hand to the Venator it exchanges fire with in RotS. The different lengths of the Venator in the two ICS books are trivial IIRC. Under 100 meters -- the Clone Wars book is probably the scale the modellers used. If the difference is under 100 meters and everything else is pretty much the same, then that's no bother (it's within reason). Invincible has a different bridge and a length of over two times the size of a Venator -- this is going by direct scaling with the Republic Stealth Ship as it flies over its dorsal side.

    The main problem with the Clone Wars ICS is the naming of the Separatist Destroyer as a Recusant-class light destroyer, as the very episode guide for its first appearance states it's an entirely different vessel to that. If they didn't want to make up a name for it, they could have just used what the guide called it; Separatist Destroyer (putting "Star" before Destroyer would have been pretty cool).

    Yep, the Separatist Destroyer seen in Grievous Intrigue and later episodes are entirely different beasts to the Recusant-class. It has a hangar for one, it also has a different bridge module, and it's twice as long.
  19. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    Maybe you missed the part that every ship in both the ICS and the Incredible Vehicles have different sizes. Some small differences, some larger - and trivial or not, the new Complete Vehicles has exactly the same stats for the Venator, which makes anything apart from the new pages somewhat suspect; so saying "it's different from the ICS meaning it's a different ship" is irrelevant. They are all different. Cherry-picking which ones are acceptable and which aren't is fine for personal fan theories, not so much for convincing others.


    Regardless of whether you think it's a problem, that's what it's called. There's nothing in the show or the support material to suggest they are different - certainly the pulling of the reference from the EGTW that Tzizvvt78 helpfully pointed out suggests that they aren't different as well.
  20. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    Wait, if you went away and came back to find the thread on page 20 - that wouldn't be the best ever?
  21. ShanOffirin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2006
    star 1
    I don't think the creators of Clone Wars cared that they were planning to contradict cruiser sizes and types. Their error also led to them screwing up a number of characters as well. To be honest, it is nice not to see them use a lot of Clone Wars data for once.
  22. anotherdemon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2013
    star 2
    There's a certain margin of error that we can accept.

    Venator-class Star Destroyer in RotS/Complete ICS = 1,137 meters
    Venator-class Star Destroyer in Clone Wars Incredible Vehicles = 1,155 meters

    What's that, about 2% difference?

    Moving on to the other ships:

    Lucrehulk-class Battleship in TPM/Complete ICS = 3,170 (diameter incidentally)
    Lucrehulk-class Battleship in Clone Wars = 3,356 (length)

    6% difference

    Recusant-class light destroyer in RotS = 1,187 meters
    Recusant-class light destroyer in CW = 2,544 meters

    46% difference

    Munificent-class Star Frigate in RotS/Complete ICS = 854 meters
    Munificent-class Star Frigate CW = 1,199 meters

    39% difference

    Acclamator-class assault ship in AotC = 752 meters
    Acclamator-class assault ship in CW = 891 meters

    16%

    Consular-class in TPM = 115 meters
    Consular-class in CW = 139 meters

    18%

    Going by that, the Recusant-class light destroyer and Munificent-class Star Frigate are the two that well above the others. The Venator at 2% is effectively the same.

    The Munificent surprises me; if it's right, it'd make sense for why they can hold their own against the Venators.
  23. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    @anotherdemon
    It's not unheard of for real life ships within the same class to have some differences in dimensions. Not as extreme as in SW, though. Maybe the Venators in TCW are all ones that were built at Allanteen Six. We know three of them were, the ones at the Battle of Bothawui.
    Last edited by Tzizvvt78, Aug 3, 2013
  24. ShanOffirin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2006
    star 1
    Again, I point out my same point on Clone Wars I have on several other boards. The creators screwed up big time!
  25. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    Apparently you're still not sure what that is, though, at least in the case of Munificents. Be sure to let LFL know if you find it acceptable or not.

    Maybe all the Venators, Lucrehulks, Consulars, Acclamators, Munificents, and Recusants were all built in special yards for the ones that appeared in the show. And they only appear in the show, and ones in the movies only appear in the movies.