Discussion in 'Literature' started by CeiranHarmony, Jul 30, 2013.
Maybe Jason Fry can confirm this one.
Even if he does, Filoni said they are meant to be the same as in Ep 3.
It's not like books with old ship sizes haven't continued to appear after a size retcon.
DS1 was retconned to 160 km a few years back. Yet a book published in 2012 (Star Wars The Ultimate Visual Guide)
used the 120 km figure- because the book was effectively a reprint with updates.
This book is, to all intents and purposes, Complete Cross-Sections- with a few new entries, a few things cut, etc.
Thus- it includes outdated data.
Like the 26.7m Millennium Falcon length.
It's 2013, everybody. Ship length debates are SO 2001.
And discrepancy between the ICS and Incredible Vehicles for every one of the ships that are in both? Because even the Venators and Acclamators have different lengths. Notably the TOS online encyclopedia - which covers both the movies and show are using the Incredible Vehicles sizes for both the Venators and the TF battleships.
Except the TOS online encyclopedia also calls the Invisible Hand a "Separatist dreadnaught".
The line was cut, as I can also attest. That should tell you something right there.
Nope, just moved on to other ships now that Executor is finally fixed.
Clone Wars vs RotS capital ships.
Plenty to go yet.
If we don't debate something, we might as well mothball the Fleet Junkie Thread, muster out the troops, and decommission our flagship.
You people are so dreary. Can't we talk about something fun, like the intricacies of Imperial Court ceremonial?
Anyway -- Home One is clearly 1.3km because the 3.8km model that XWAUpgrade made is buggy and crashes my game. QED.
Misa ab iPhono meo est.
About as reasonable as an explanation as any with the given lengths. Too bad no republic ships got scaled up as well. I want to see that one mile isd barrier broken on a more frequent basis.
Make a thread for it. I dare you.
Oh man it would be the best ever. But I'm about to leave for a trip -- what if the thread became a hit and I missed out?
Misa ab iPhono meo est.
Yeah, that's right if you treat what we see in that picture as a different vessel to Home One. Home One was said to be the largest vessel in the Rebel fleet though, so larger vessels probably weren't there.
Yes, Invisible Hand is scaled correctly in RotS and the ICS. It's close to a Venator in length.
Invincible, Trench's ship, as about twice as long. As are the other few ships of Invincible's make we see.
They're clearly two different designs.
Yup. As for the Recusants, it's the same thing, though the reference was cut. The Recusants in the show aren't even the same models as in ROTS, they have hangars with visible apertures on each side, similar to the Home Ones. The new version was also scaled to be bigger than the Venators, because there's a physical connection made with a docking ring in the very first episode that featured them. The movie version didn't tower over the Republic cruisers in the film. The ROTS:ICS deals with the ships of the film, so the new book isn't wrong to repeat this info.
Which Venator length would that be, exactly? ICS or Incredible Vehicles?
Where exactly was Invincible shown alongside the Invisible Hand?
It certainly is strange that TOS refers to the Invisible Hand as a "Separatist dreadnaught" and makes no comment about it being "smaller".
It's always a possibility but by no means as "clear" as you are trying to make it out to be.
Home One has several sister ships of identical or near identical design.
Meaning that the reference is noncanon - in fact, it circumstantially points to the other side, otherwise why cut the reference?
Except that the TOS encyclopedia and Incredible Vehicles disagrees with the ICS on a number of ships.
I'm comparing Invisible Hand to the Venator it exchanges fire with in RotS. The different lengths of the Venator in the two ICS books are trivial IIRC. Under 100 meters -- the Clone Wars book is probably the scale the modellers used. If the difference is under 100 meters and everything else is pretty much the same, then that's no bother (it's within reason). Invincible has a different bridge and a length of over two times the size of a Venator -- this is going by direct scaling with the Republic Stealth Ship as it flies over its dorsal side.
The main problem with the Clone Wars ICS is the naming of the Separatist Destroyer as a Recusant-class light destroyer, as the very episode guide for its first appearance states it's an entirely different vessel to that. If they didn't want to make up a name for it, they could have just used what the guide called it; Separatist Destroyer (putting "Star" before Destroyer would have been pretty cool).
Yep, the Separatist Destroyer seen in Grievous Intrigue and later episodes are entirely different beasts to the Recusant-class. It has a hangar for one, it also has a different bridge module, and it's twice as long.
Maybe you missed the part that every ship in both the ICS and the Incredible Vehicles have different sizes. Some small differences, some larger - and trivial or not, the new Complete Vehicles has exactly the same stats for the Venator, which makes anything apart from the new pages somewhat suspect; so saying "it's different from the ICS meaning it's a different ship" is irrelevant. They are all different. Cherry-picking which ones are acceptable and which aren't is fine for personal fan theories, not so much for convincing others.
Regardless of whether you think it's a problem, that's what it's called. There's nothing in the show or the support material to suggest they are different - certainly the pulling of the reference from the EGTW that Tzizvvt78 helpfully pointed out suggests that they aren't different as well.
Wait, if you went away and came back to find the thread on page 20 - that wouldn't be the best ever?
I don't think the creators of Clone Wars cared that they were planning to contradict cruiser sizes and types. Their error also led to them screwing up a number of characters as well. To be honest, it is nice not to see them use a lot of Clone Wars data for once.
There's a certain margin of error that we can accept.
Venator-class Star Destroyer in RotS/Complete ICS = 1,137 meters
Venator-class Star Destroyer in Clone Wars Incredible Vehicles = 1,155 meters
What's that, about 2% difference?
Moving on to the other ships:
Lucrehulk-class Battleship in TPM/Complete ICS = 3,170 (diameter incidentally)
Lucrehulk-class Battleship in Clone Wars = 3,356 (length)
Recusant-class light destroyer in RotS = 1,187 meters
Recusant-class light destroyer in CW = 2,544 meters
Munificent-class Star Frigate in RotS/Complete ICS = 854 meters
Munificent-class Star Frigate CW = 1,199 meters
Acclamator-class assault ship in AotC = 752 meters
Acclamator-class assault ship in CW = 891 meters
Consular-class in TPM = 115 meters
Consular-class in CW = 139 meters
Going by that, the Recusant-class light destroyer and Munificent-class Star Frigate are the two that well above the others. The Venator at 2% is effectively the same.
The Munificent surprises me; if it's right, it'd make sense for why they can hold their own against the Venators.
It's not unheard of for real life ships within the same class to have some differences in dimensions. Not as extreme as in SW, though. Maybe the Venators in TCW are all ones that were built at Allanteen Six. We know three of them were, the ones at the Battle of Bothawui.
Again, I point out my same point on Clone Wars I have on several other boards. The creators screwed up big time!
Apparently you're still not sure what that is, though, at least in the case of Munificents. Be sure to let LFL know if you find it acceptable or not.
Maybe all the Venators, Lucrehulks, Consulars, Acclamators, Munificents, and Recusants were all built in special yards for the ones that appeared in the show. And they only appear in the show, and ones in the movies only appear in the movies.