Discussion in 'SouthWest Region Discussion' started by skywalkersound, May 29, 2002.
That makes you a hero
[kiss on cheek]
Hello, Obey Wann.
Whew. My internet connection went down today, and all I could think (for the first few hours) was that everyone would be slitting each other's throats. I'm so glad that's not what happened.
Thank you everyone for staying civilized and approachable in this thread. It makes it worth the bumps in the road.
I'm going to be writing an e-mail or two here, so I'll catch y'all in the morning.
~grumbles something about Atomic Comics should open another store in a more centralized location...~
Atmoic Comics has locations out Metrocenter and Paradise Valley malls in Phoenix, Ray & Kyrene in Chandler, and the main store at Alma School & Southern in Mesa. How many more stores do you want from them? There's not much room at the Metro store, but I bet you could fit 20-30 easily into the PV store. Would either of those locations be more central for you?
I stand corrected. Or, I sit corrected as the case may be.
Really though, I *don't* have room to complain because I *do* live in Tempe now. A few months ago, when I lived in Maryvale, I might have meant my grumblings. Now it's just habit.
so...remind me to stop complaining in jest?
Jest? I thought you were complaining in English. Do the two languages have a root language they share?
OK, so it's been awhile... Any news updates?- Obey Wann? Anyone? Has the situation been resolved?- Is Subj. back? ???
We will fully resolve the situation at the meeting on Saturday.
We will go over everything there and start moving forward. We will go over the dues situation, NPO status (non-profit organization), officer positions and elections, etc. We got some feedback from the admin staff as well as our resident accountant that I'll give to everyone at the meeint about all of this. I'm very pleased with where everyting is going, and hope that it will be handled, and accepted well by all.
Based on the ICQ and email conversations I've had with subjugator and with others (including the FF administrators), I don't expect him to be back. I won't go into this any more at this time (can discuss at the June 8 meeting), as I still hope to have a face to face meeting with him and Krelia, and hopefully work it out.
Beyond that, it looks like things are smoothing back out and coming back to normal.
Like I said before, it's all just growing pains. A little bit of advil and some time will hopefully help it all smooth out fully.
If you have any more questions, PM me.
I thought it was about time to return to say hi.
Some people thought that banning me would be a good way to keep me quiet so they could try to take this conversation where they wanted to. They were wrong in doing so. Anyone who is banned can easily come back at any time. A 24 hour ?spanking? is a bit juvenile, especially when the ban seems to be permanent. After days of waiting for a response to my question of why I was banned, I finally received an email from Erica Haas [firstname.lastname@example.org] which stated ?You've been banned because your message have been inflamatory.
Main Entry: inÂ·flamÂ·maÂ·toÂ·ry
Date: circa 1711
1 : tending to excite anger, disorder, or tumult
2 : tending to inflame or excite the senses
3 : accompanied by or tending to cause inflammation
Anyone can see any message as ?inflammatory? if they look hard enough. The word ?inflammatory? does not appear anywhere in the TOS, yet the administration of the Jedi Council has the right, at its sole discretion, to ban anyone at any time without notice or reason. They have the ability to do so, even if it is not morally right. I find it quite amusing that I have been singled out. Erica seems to think that I posted a message stating that ?people in the club are lining their own pockets?. This appears to be her reasoning for the ban. I am still waiting to hear where I said that. Go back and read my previous posts. You can decide for yourself. I suggested she be thoughtful as to who she is influenced by.
Obey Wann opened a chat conversation with me the other day and it resulted in him throwing insults and accusing me of holding group info hostage. I am not holding any group info hostage..lol. All updates on the past site were of my design with the exceptions of posting profiles, which can be found here on the boards, and various photos in which the copyright owners still have. Never once did any member send me text to be used in the news section. Not even the PFF secretary, as some believed he was doing. Last week I was informed that Obey Wann had emailed someone and accused me of being a liar.(See the legal definition of defamation) In fact, he has sent out several messages trying to sway things his way. Erica Haas [email@example.com] was not aware of any of these. Why would you do that, Obey Wann? I can think of some reasons. How have I lied? I don?t lie because I have more respect for myself than that. If you were notified that additional PMs were a part of my banning, you have been lied to. The only PMs sent have been posted by kreleia above.
I have respect for the top people of TFN, as I do enjoy my ?daily dose of Star Wars? and I thank them for keeping me informed. As a matter of fact, I have respect for all of the popular fan sites, but don?t think TFN has the right to moderate any of the Phoenix Fan Force meetings. PFF was created by the people, and as far I as I remember?the title was suggested by yours truly. We used to be referred to as the ?Tatooine Jedi Academy?.
I have mentioned that there are ways for some of the groups largest expenses to become tax deductible or even free. That would have benefited the total amount of dues saved, after said expenses, to promote the PFF. Nobody seemed interested in that, so therefore I am going to refrain from donating my opinion and suggestions on how dues should be collected any further. Be wary of how a ?resident accountant? thinks dues should be handled. That person might be biased in some way. Find out who that person is. Whatever is decided by the whole is absolutely fine with me. That is the way it should be.
Also, I am still waiting for kreleia to answer the questions I had asked her in result to the PM she sent me.
It would not surprise me if this post is deleted or this thread becomes locked. If it is, I will simply post it on my server. I may do that anyway.
A loved one has been scheduled to receive a spinal fusion on June 8th. I am posting this because I am not sure if I will be able to make it to the mee
I suppose I may as well come out of silence to defend myself against a man who didn't even have the fortitude to say it to me directly. I'll also use this time to clear up some things and explain myself.
" My comment of "aztrooper, your ideas are not original...bah!" was in reference to how he pointed out that our Got Force idea was not original and that we should be able to come up with a better idea such as one that was not exactly original (see PFF icon). None of us seemed to know that at the time. When people ridicule others and then say "I'm not trying to be a jerk here" is ridiculous! Some people are trying to make PFF look bad and you should recognize that. "
First off, The "Got (insert subject here)" thing has been done to death. Got Sand, Got Kids, Got Hemp, etc., etc., etc.
The 501st were the 1st to bring it into the SW fan universe, and that was a year ago. I think the whole joke is old now, and that the PFF could surely come up with a better, more original idea.
I suggested the Icon graphic because it was unique to this club. Grant it, there is an Imperial version the DSG has used for over a year now, but hey...The fact that it's the Rebellion insignia makes it different enough to stand on it's own.
It's an easily recognizable insignia, and the AZ flag has many brilliant colors that catch and attract the eye. Something quite useful in advertising, which is what logo T-shirts are all about, isn't it? To advertise the club in the hopes that other people will learn of it, and want to join.
I was only trying to offer an opinion to help out. For my troubles, I'm attacked in PMs by some members of this club, informing me that since I'm 501st, I'm not PFF, and my opinion isn't welcome here.
I joined the PFF because I love SW. I have my costuming buddies, but maybe I just wanted to join a group of people that might hang out and watch the damn films sometimes. Maybe shoot the breeze about the books, games, and other such things. To me, the two clubs are very different, and to clear up someone's misconception, the DSG is not a branch of the PFF. We are a branch of the international group, the "501st Legion." We are in no way affiliated with TFN, or the PFF. Some of us wanted to be members of this group as well, that's all.
I wasn't ridiculing anyone, believe me. Ask Mara Jade AZ sometime and she can tell you from experience that right now, I'm being a very good boy. If I wanted to ridicule anyone, I have years of practical experience and can do it at the drop of a hat, trust me.
As far as Subj's being banned, if it's based on what was said in the PMs, I must point out that that is a blatant abuse of power. They were never intended for public consumption, so it's not like he was being "inflammatory" on the boards.
The PMs are "Private Messages," are they not? No matter what the point was to be made, they should have never been posted publicly here for everyone to read.
That was just bad form, inexcusable, and not the actions of a competent officer of any club. Period.
If he was banned for another reason, then disregard what I just said, but at the same time post a clear, full explanation of exactly why he was banned then. Give case examples so the rest of us know what the boundaries are.
You have people afraid to even post their thoughts here now for fear of being banned for doing so.
For a bunch that leans towards the Rebellion, you guys are turning out to be fine Imperials indeed.
See you at the meeting this weekend.
Also, I am still waiting for kreleia to answer the questions I had asked her in result to the PM she sent me.
I'm still trying to figure out exactly what those questions were that I'm supposed to answer.
Those questions are clearly stated in the PM I sent you, kreleia.
No, they're not. I've read and re-read and re-read that PM, and while there are questions, there's nothing in there that you don't already know the answers to.
Now if there's something else, please let me know.
OK then, I will point them out to you....
1. What gives you the impression that I am "insulting everyone"?
2. Why the heck would I do that?
3. Who have I insulted?
As I said b4, they are clearly stated. If I knew the answers, I wouldn't be asking. Would I?
And I quote:
"There are people in the group who are most obviously using others for their personnal benefit in some ways." -- Subjugator. From [link=http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=7097215&replies=2]this[/link] thread.
That sounds pretty accusatory and inflamatory to me, Sub. What do you think?
Oh, and here's another one:
"Did you elect your officials or were they appointed by a select few?" -- same thread.
Can we concede the point that you've not-so-subtly called into question the motives and character of more than one of the PFF Officers and move on? Or should I keep digging?
Exactly, IA. I stand beside those comments. If someone sees those as inflammatory, I don't care. I never named names. People have figured that out for themselves.
Here's one from the [link=http://www.phoenixfanforce.com/]website[/link]:
"...you will see that a few people are desperately trying to create a cover-up. They don't realize how obvious it truly is." -- Subjugator
Surely you'll agree that this is inflamatory, but wait, you didn't *specifically* name any names. I suppose that makes it inadmissable.
Here's an interesting one from earlier in this thread:
"The pff site was created for the use of us as a whole..NOT just for myself." -- Subjugator.
This statement seems to contradict your actions, Sub. If the PFF website is for all of us as a group, why did you deem it necessary to take down that group information and post up information that is there now? Surely you could have left the main PFF site up for the rest of the group to use and linked (in several places and using a large font if you like) to your current text...
I created the site to promote the PFF. I have lost faith in some of the officers. Don't forget..I was banned. Thus...the site has been removed. I was happy to host it on my server without asking anyone to reimburse me, in any way, for the first year. I saw it as a donation to help get things off the ground. After the first year, the site was to be moved to a permanent server. Remember??...dues were suppose to go to that. Anyone else is free to create a site. I am not stopping them unless they violate my copyrights. Common sense should tell you that if you ban the webmaster, he/she would not want to still promote it. Right? Be happy I have left the above banner online. I was getting tired of the design anyway. The red/white/blue color scheme doesn't seem to represent what the PFF is anymore to me.
wow...look at all those inflammatory statements above! Where are the mods and admins?
On the subject of Sub J.....
Raise your hand if you even care at this point on this subject. It's going to be brought up in person on the 8th and I'm quite comfortable talking about it then when I can look into somebody's eyes, hear their inflections, and pretty much say there no misunderstandings. So until then, it's beating a dead horse...feel free to beat if you want to, we'll just laugh at whoever does it.
On a side note Sub J, my prayers to your friend going into serious surgury.
I hope everybody can move past what was said. I believe that you meant well with your posts so I hope those who took exception with it, for whatever reason, can just drop it...and you can drop whatever came back at you. There are very few things really worth arguing here and this isn't one of them. Our groups should be titles just for the sake of organization, we're all fans trying to have fun and could stand to just step back and take a breath.
Comment away at me ladies and gentlemen
I don't know if anyone is really beating a dead horse. I think Subj. had some things to be said, as well as kevin, and perhaps everyone won't be able to attend the meeting, and get to hear the 'other' side to an arguement (or disscussion rather). I mean, put yourself in their situation, wouldn't you want to 'air' how you feel, if you were M.I.A. for awhile?
Well the horse remark was directed towards the Sub J argument, not Kevin. But the discussion seems to be going round and round at this point in the message boards and getting nowhere fast, it's past the point of having something to say and just repeating the same words on both sides. So I view that as beating the horse, and I look forward to solving it this weekend.
I look forward to solving it this weekend.- I concur.
//raises hand. <looks around nervously>
<I'm out of it for a little while and everyone gets delusions of granduer!>
Ok, so I've been gone for awhile, <my computer time is way limited!> but I come back and the first thing I noticed is that the site is down. I was a little confused. I'm not going to comment on anything, since I wasn't here and definitely feel it's not my place. I have read all the posts and just want to point out that EVERYONE in the PFF have been extremely cool to me and for that I am willing to become a card carrying, dues paying <however they're spent> member. I look forward to the meeting on the 8th, it should prove to be interesting.