Connecting the trilogies

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Obi-Ewan, Jun 28, 2004.

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  1. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    Many have said that changes need to be made to the old films to make them fit in better with the prequels. Even with the prequels happening first, even if people are meant to view them first, this is backwards. The original films were made first, hence they established the continuity that the prequels must follow.

    In fact, Lucas has been following this approach all along. Ewan McGregor was picked for his resemblance to Alec Guinness. I don't see Lucas recasting old Obi-Wan to resemble the younger one. The triangular shapes of the Jedi Starfighters, Obi-Wan's beard, the lightsaber designs, the appearances of many characters, especially Owen, Beru, Anakin, Padme, Mon Mothma, are all designed to resemble what was established in the old trilogy, not as an excuse to butcher the old films to fit the new ones.
  2. EBSaints Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2002
    star 6
    Yes


    Is there a question in your post?
  3. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Lucas made the classic trilogy by the seat of his pants. He and the people who helped him had to invent the effects technology as they went along, and as a result there were a few technical inconsistencies between the Classic Trilogy episodes.

    Now that he has the technology to do whatever he can think up, he goes back to make the prequels, as he finishes each film, he gets closer to having his full picture.

    Once he can take a step back from the work as a whole, he can see all the inconsistencies of the series as a whole, and take steps to unify everything across the board.

    This happens to movies all the time, it's just usually, we as the audience don't see the versions before the consistency checks are done.

    You guys just have to let go, and let Lucas do his thing.

    This is going to be so much cooler when the saga is in it's complete state.
  4. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    Those are just all fanboy complaints. Everyone has their own opinions. Some say that the PT should be changed dramatically. In the end I do think that it all fits together. OT has a more mass-produced look, women dress more conservatively....this is all because there is an empire limiting things all around. The OT is supposed to be a dark times. Cultures are oppressed people live in fear. PT is a happy time of cultural growth you can see so in the films.

    In my opinion they will connect.

    -Seldon
  5. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    Lucas made the classic trilogy by the seat of his pants. He and the people who helped him had to invent the effects technology as they went along, and as a result there were a few technical inconsistencies between the Classic Trilogy episodes.[i/]

    What I'm referring to is not just the old trilogy, but how the old trilogy connects to the new one. And the old trilogy, despite whatever conditions existed, are the films that set the rules. Not the prequels.

    Once he can take a step back from the work as a whole, he can see all the inconsistencies of the series as a whole, and take steps to unify everything across the board.

    The original trilogy HAS been released, and that makes all the difference. Continuity is established by them, and must be maintained based on the old films, not altered.

    I'm surprised to be hearing this from the same man who said that Vader's identity would be kept a secret in the prequels--complete with a red herring apprentice--so that a surprise in ESB would be preserved.
  6. NZPoe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2001
    star 4
    So you're saying that you want the prequel trilogy to somehow reflect and explain "in-universe" why the original trilogy has crappy special effects as well??

    ???
  7. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    This is the greatest film saga ever IMO and there are some loose ends that need to be tightened up in order for things to flow more smoothly, not to mention the fact that both trilogies would benefit enormously from these touch ups.


    As George Lucas said in the documentaries about the Special Editions, films aren't finished but abandoned.
  8. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    There have already been continuity flaws between the classic trilogy films. Obviously because he was figuring this stuff out as he went along, tweaks need to be made to unify everything across the board.

    This isn't history this is science fiction/fantasy. The story will be at it's best when it has as much consistency as they can put into it.

    I was disappointed to hear Lucas wouldn't be preserving the secret of Vader's identity in the prequels, but after hearing his explanation for how it will end up playing out when it is all finished, I think it also plays well with the surprise being for Luke and not the audience.

    By revealing who Vader is in the prequels, it sets up the subtext of everyone trying to hide this from Luke. There is this dynamic that becomes apparent at the end of the classic trilogy on it's own, that they didn't want Luke to follow in his father's footsteps. They knew that Luke wouldn't be nearly as receptive to Obi-Wan and Yoda's tutelage if he learned that Obi-Wan was responsible for what happened to Anakin. By revealing this dynamic in the prequels it plays out like that all through the classic trilogy. The peril becomes: When will he find out?. What will he do when he does? How will he react?
  9. b-wingmasterburnz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2004
    star 3
    It's funny when you hear little ignorant kids talking about TPM and AOTC and you ask what they thought of Episode IV, and they go "You've seen Episode IV???!!! Wow!" It's those people that will have a unique experience of watching the Star Wars films.

    I can't wait to have a Star Wars marathon.
  10. severian28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2004
    star 5
    I think that showing a complete universe with all the systems in the universe, all the technology available to the free people of that universe, and just the overall diversity ( i.e. the various unique looks that the peoples of the Galaxy have ) that is involved in a free society would have been finacially impossible to display in 1977, and George knew it, which is why he decided to film the heroic quest part of the saga first.
  11. HanSolo29 Manager Emeritus + Official Star Wars Artist

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2001
    star 6
    So you're saying that you want the prequel trilogy to somehow reflect and explain "in-universe" why the original trilogy has crappy special effects as well??

    I don't think the special effects are really a factor here. Lucas will probably go back and fix some of the bland effects in the OT(lightsabers, matte lines, etc.) so that they fit with the PT, and that's fine. But even if he doesn't chose go back and fix them, I don't really think it matters what the effects look like as long as there is a solid story.

    Now, the thing that I don't get is this - the PT is supposed to be the backstory to the already established OT, correct? Then why is Lucas writing things into the earlier parts of the story that will potentially create plot inconsistencies with the second half of the story?




  12. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    He isn't creating inconsistencies.
  13. HanSolo29 Manager Emeritus + Official Star Wars Artist

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2001
    star 6
    I don't know about you, Go-Mer, but a few inconsistancies are there. They may be subtle and a causual fan may not point them out, but they're there.

    One that comes to mind is the relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin. They are supposed to be good friends and very close according to the OT - Anakin even mentions this to Obi in AOTC with his "You're like a father" line, but it is never expanded upon. There are no actions in the PT so far to suggest this. Even when Anakin had the chance to prove this when Obi-Wan was taken prisoner on Geonosis, he drops the opportunity by saying he must obey the Council. Maybe Ep3 will expand upon their relationship more, but as it stands now - it doesn't seem like these too are that close of friends. Especially when Anakin is always complaining about Obi-Wan holding him back and whatnot.

    The other that jumps out at me is only rumored at this point. If you follow the DVD thread over on the CT board, you know what I'm talking about - the Hayden change. Lucas is rumored to be making something happen in Ep3 that will merit the Hayden change. But the question is - why? This goes with what I said in my other post. Why go ahead and make something happen in the new films that goes against what was already established in the OT? To me, this plot point he is creating will cause an inconsistantcy. In order to fix this problem, he needs to go back and change the ending to ROTJ.

  14. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    They are shown to have a good repore on the elevator scene in the very beginning, and Anakin talks about how much he respects Obi-Wan to Amidala, and further Obi-Wan explains that they were good friends to Luke in the classic trilogy.

    What's to expand? They explain they were good friends, have scenes with them being nice to each other between their tempermental flare ups, what's left to get across?

    Putting Hayden in as the Ghost of Anakin changes nothing about the story being told in the classic trilogy. It merely ties it to the prequels better from a visual standpoint.
  15. DS615 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2003
    star 4
    Putting Hayden in as the Ghost of Anakin changes nothing about the story being told in the classic trilogy. It merely ties it to the prequels better from a visual standpoint.

    If suggesting that Anakin doesn't age at all in 25 years, then sure. And it doesn't "tie-in" better, it just makes the movies stupid.
    All of the Star Wars movies are already "tied-in" together, just by the virtue of them being Star Wars.

    If you mean that the OT looks more real and less cartoony, so they seem diffrent, then I guess I agree.



  16. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    It makes sense because the good man who was Luke's father died when he became Darth Vader. Of course his force ghost would look like he does around the time he died. I think this change makes a lot of sense, and I am glad they are doing it.
  17. DS615 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2003
    star 4
    It makes zero sense.
    When Anakin died he looked like he does in Jedi, not like the child he is in AotC.


    And they aren't doing it.

  18. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    It makes perfect sense, because as I said, the good man who was Luke's father died when Darth Vader came to be.

    And they -are- doing it.
  19. HanSolo29 Manager Emeritus + Official Star Wars Artist

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2001
    star 6
    What's to expand? They explain they were good friends, have scenes with them being nice to each other between their tempermental flare ups, what's left to get across?

    I don't know - it just doesn't come across as a true friendship. I mean, would a true friend go ahead and complain to others behind their backs about how they are holding them back and how things aren't fair with this particular person? And then later, when he's actually face to face with this "friend", act like nothing happened? I don't know about you, but I don't go around talking about my friends like that.

    Putting Hayden in as the Ghost of Anakin changes nothing about the story being told in the classic trilogy. It merely ties it to the prequels better from a visual standpoint.

    A visual standpoint? How so?
  20. openmind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    I mean, would a true friend go ahead and complain to others behind their backs about how they are holding them back and how things aren't fair with this particular person?

    Well if the friend doesn't know that the other is talking behind his back, well.... ;)
  21. DS615 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2003
    star 4
    It makes perfect sense, because as I said, the good man who was Luke's father died when Darth Vader came to be.

    And they -are- doing it.


    Anakin was restored when he turned on the Emperor, therefore Anakin looks like he does in Jedi, not like a punk kid from 25 years in his past.


    And prove it.


  22. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Give me a few more months.
  23. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    Does Anakin himself even know what he looks like when he dies at the end of Jedi ??

  24. StarDude Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2001
    star 5
    I don't know - it just doesn't come across as a true friendship.

    "They're like great friends who spend too much time together." - Ewan McGregor


    I think they seem very much like two friends. During the whole speeder chase espescially. They remind me of Han and Luke. And throughout the movie, I'd say it's safe to say that he has a level of admiration for Obi-Wan. He even says "Obi-Wan is a great mentor." Plus, they have a HUGE history together.

    Having fights is suppossed to happen. After all, these guys are trying to kill eachother by the end of Episode III.

    That's not an incosistency. Just an opinion.
  25. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    He isn't creating inconsistencies.

    Putting Hayden in as the Ghost of Anakin changes nothing about the story being told in the classic trilogy. It merely ties it to the prequels better from a visual standpoint.

    I can't believe that these two quotes came from the same person and in the same thread no less. If there are no inconsistencies (a point I agree with), then there is no need to replace an established actor with an upstart. Especially when they aren't replacing Alec with Ewan. And the logic about Anakin ceasing to exist, as has been pointed out, doesn't hold water, because he became Anakin again when he killed Palpatine. Hence, the Anakin who dies is the ghost we should see.
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