Conspiracy Theories

Almost any time that a major disaster, tragedy, etc occurs there arises at least one somewhat popular idea as to who and/or what caused it which runs contrary to the official report. (although sometimes the events don't involve anything related to disasters or tragedies)

While there are probably too many in existence (past and present) to post about here, some examples of the more popular ones (in no particular order) include:

The JFK Assassination
The Sinking of the Lusitania
The Bombing of Pearl Harbor
(9/11) The Attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon
The Apollo 11 Moon Landing
And even Hurricane Katrina and events following it.


What are your thoughts on conspiracy theories? Do any of them have any substance to them? Which ones are true, which ones are completely false, and which ones might have just some legitimacy?


I'm not going to title the thread in a way to enforce any particular discussion at specific times, but I will suggest that we get the ball rolling by discussing the Kennedy assassination conspiracy theory. The main reason for it being that it's probably the one that we JCers agree the least on. So it should be more interesting to discuss.

For more information on the subject in general, see this article.

 

Of that list, the only conspiracy was 9/11.

Generally, I think the conspiracy theories stem from either a desire to blame a particular group for an event, or to make events seem like they have more controlled causes and aren't random events that have no potential for controlling.

 

I think that most conspiracy theorists give the government way to much credit. They're seen as this huge organization with limitless resources and manpower with the ability to not only commit all the acts they are accused of, but to cover them up without any information being leaked to the mainstream media. A vast governemt consiopiracy designed to fool the entire world simply wouldn't work IMO.

 

I agree, our government has been proven totally inept at keeping all sorts of important secrets, and there is no reason to believe that a system that can't even solve real problems can somehow cook up elaborate schemes for world domination that actually work.

The only ones that are even plausible are the ones that would have taken only a small group of people to do, so JFK could have been killed by some secret conspiracy, but in all likelyhood wasn't.

In general, people like conspiracy theories because they give us a world where if it wasn't for conspiracies we would be happy and secure. They just don't want to be aware of just how chaotic and out of control of reality we really are.

 

Those leaks were all intentional, in an effort to fool us that the government is more inept than it actually is. Its all one carefully concocted scheme thought up by The Patriots. No one is aware of it because they kill people who know too much! Well, except me, my tinfoil hat, and the other ten people who read my blog.



Yeah, I don't give much credence to conspiracy theories. Especially particularly foolish ones like the "Katrina Conspiracy" or the supposed Moon Landing Hoax. What's even more frustrating is agruing with the people that support the theories, because they all too often come up with excuses like my first sentence in this post. The burden on proof is on them.

 

Yeah. My government, supposedly capable of plotting and carrying out OPERATION X, is the same government that takes 6-8 weeks to send me a form to request another form. It's the same government that builds roads that have potholes a week later that take a year to get filled. It's the same governmen that sends from one department to another and back again to get anything done.

 

Clearly all the capable, evil people got drafted for Operation X, right?

E_S

 

"There you go again, indicting the government as a whole when it's only a few corrupt officials in positions of power that are to blame." - quote from tv pilot of The Lone Gunman, the X-Files spinoff. Incidentally, the piolt aired in March 2001, and depicted an airliner being remote-controlled to fly into the WTC, to be blamed on Islamic radicals to start a war on terror, and increase profits for the military-industrial complex.



jus' sayin'

 

You forgot the most important conspiracy of the 20th century: Elvis. The mafia was after him because all mobsters like opera better than rock and roll, and that for his own protection, the government sent him to the moon. See, we really launched a space shuttle, that wasn't fake. The landing that was filmed in Hollywood was fake. The real landing sent Elvis to the moon.

 

Don't say that else people will believe it




The King has left the planet?

 

the ones i believe are

Oklahoma City, there WAS a John Doe #2

TWA Flight 800, the U.S. Navy shot it down by mistake

Waco, The rules of engagement were broken, just watch the F.L.I.R.


these are not about conspiring FOR the events, but a slow and steady cover up afterwards...

 

My own personal favorite:

Dick Cheney's secret energy advisory group warned him about impending oil shortages and told him that one of the few places in the world where oil production could be significantly increased was Iraq, but only with significant infrastructure investment and with the removal of UN sanctions. Dick manipulated the Bush administration into invading Iraq in order to buy the U.S. a few more years of plentiful, cheap oil.

A failed conspiracy, but still.

 

Like I say in all of the religious threads, faith is having a belief in something that is stronger than the evidence. And all faith is blind.

 

like faith in the government?

 

Well, yeah. A conpsiracy theory, just like a religion, make perfect sense to the guy who believes in it, but may well seem idiotic to everyone else.

But many people who believe in their conspiracy theory/religion will also believe that the evidence for it is overhwelming. What's important is how that belief is "stronger" than the evidence, and what kind of character/intellectual predilections these people have that allow them to be compelled by certain kinds of inducements to belief that other people wouldn't even recognize as evidence.

It's different for everyone, so you never know what kinds of non-evidentiary evidence different people will find compelling.

 

Convince me if I am wrong, but speculation isn't evidence.

Master_SweetPea I hope you are not assuming* that I have faith in the government. Or like faith that the government has people capable enough to carry these conspiricies out?

But yes, too true.

Jabbadabbado Start presenting the evidence. I would hope that people are reasonable enough to analysis it and make rational conclusions accordingly. Hopefully people will not reject evidence because the implications are too far out there and not accept it because they simply want to believe. Take or reject the evidence on its merits alone and then come to a conclusion.

Would you say most conspiracy theorists have done that?




*I wish there was a smiley face to convey what I mean with the word 'assume'.

 

Isn't there an AIDS conspiracy theory?

 

Well, you have to define what type of conspiracy is plausible, wouldn't you? Now, see, the JFK assassination, I can definitely see that as being plausible. It wouldn't take the entire government, just a section in the government to commit it. Or to take another example, one which I'm sure nobody here has ever even heard of The Nijvel Gang, which was a criminal gang here in Belgium which commited a spree of robberies and murders throughout the 80's. There was probably involvement there going up in the police department and probably politicians as well. That doesn't mean the government was involved, just certain people with access.

Conspiracy theories like the 9/11 theories I find rather ridicilous ... too big to ever have worked.

That said, Hitler did succeed in the Reichstach-fire conspiracy, so you should always be careful .

 

Two, actually: the one where it's a plague sent by God, and the one where radicals created it in a laboratory to exterminate the homosexuals.

 

Not sure if this a conspiracy theory per se, but a really ugly one is from our southern baptists; apparently, we're taking casualties in Iraq because our government protects homosexuals.

 

There's a "Hurricane Katrina" conspiracy? What exactly are we talking about? That the meteorological event was staged?

I guess there's a couple possibilities that seem more plausible to me, if we're going to go down that path:

1. "Bombed the levies." Happened before, but I don't think it happened this time.

2. "Chocolate city" Ray Nagin's much maligned comments. He was entirely overstating things, and did so in a stupid and offensive manner. The core of his claim, though--that New Orleans was being gentrified, and that people would be satisfied if few of the cities original residents returned, seems pretty valid, though.

3. "Bush doesn't care about black people." That the permission to shoot as given with malicious intent? Doubtful. It was, though, colossally stupid and unnecessary, as General Honore pointed out after taking over (his comments re:"snipers that don't hit anything" and "put the **** guns away and start helping people.").

 

In short... yes. I have heard argued the case that the government steered it into New Orleans.

In fact, I think that was a global warming thread here where I argued with someone over that.

 

People are hard-wired to believe in causation. It's a trait that has survival advantage for example in protecting oneself from predators, finding food, etc. But people have a cognitive/genetic predisposition to seek causation even in random events and coincidences.

And that's the mark of a great conspiracy theory. Take a few facts and unconnected events and connect them up in a creative way.

So, for example, my Iraq war theory.

Fact: Dick Cheney convened an energy policy group early in the administration. This became an early pre-911 minor scandal when Cheney refused to discuss details of what was discussed or who was involved.

Here, the conspiracy theory got a bit of a boost because secrecy tends to encourage speculation about "why all the secrecy?"

Fact: The Iraq war happened

Fact: Iraq sits on one of the world's great oil reserves.

Fact: Before the invasion, Iraq was underproducing in a situation of increasing tightness in global supply.

Widespread belief: the stated reasons for the war have been unsatisfying, to say the least.

The rest is all just connecting the dots between things that may not be connected in reality, simply because the human brain tends to seek out these kinds of connections.

 

Uh no, that's from Fred Phelps who is wacko who started his own church that HE calls baptist, the only members are his children and thier children.

saying that about Bush was stupid or the order, because I've never seen the order, and Bush can't give that order domestically..can He?

 

Well with 9/11 I believed the official story until a watched a interesting video that had nothing to do with 9/11 about 2 years ago, it was a interesting documentary on the building of the twin towers with old footage. What struck me as interesting was the huge steel beams in the core of the builing. These beams could never collapse into themselves, they could bend but never fall like they did from just heat & fire. The offical report shows how the floors collapsed, I could even buy that, but the core beams would still have been left.

WTC7 is also highly suspect.

To me 9/11 was some form of false flag ops, the most elaborate in history. It will never be proven, because it would be too painfull and it would destroy America, so for even those that know(people in government)they will never pursue it. The 9/11 truth movement is beating a dead horse. Unless millions of people protest regularly like they did all over Europe when communist control was weakening nothing will ever happen. And since people are too apathetic for this too happen, the status quo will continue to stay the same.

I would say that the strongest forms of denial are also a form of faith.