Continuity with the special effects = NONE!

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by hawk, Sep 21, 2002.

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  1. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    BTW, let's not forget the Emperor discontinuity in ESB and ROTJ. Revill's deep voice is very different from Mcdiarmid's more weasely voice.
  2. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Those last few posts are pretty hard to argue with.

    Frankly, I'm looking forward to the rumored "Ultimate Editions" where Lucas will give all the films a final spit and polish. Should be cool!
  3. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    Durwood i thought we were all supposed to accept the flaws and enjoy the films...

    next you are going to argue with yourself.

    back to topic, the minute differences between vaders look, and lighting and additional detail on a star destroyer is hardly the same as changing from practical/model effects and practical sets to CG everything and an overload of effects in effects scenes.
  4. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    Is it just me, or does Vader look like he's dancing in that last pic Chris2 posted? :D
  5. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Durwood i thought we were all supposed to accept the flaws and enjoy the films...

    Is it possible for you to contribute to a thread without being snide?

    Just because I can enjoy the films despite the niggling flaws, it doesn't mean that I won't also appreciate Lucas touching things up here and there. Besides, while the Ultimate Editions will certainly be a sight to behold, it's not like they'll be truly perfect, what with Lucas being human and all.
  6. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    Keep in mind not everything in the prequels has been CG.(And I'm not talking about just the actors :) )

    A sizable amount of minatures and full-scale sets are still used. Many of the Pod Racers, for instance, were built full-scale(Which led to problems when a sandstorm blew through Tunisia). For some of the Pod Racer explosions minatures were also utilized. The space battle at the end was also mostly realized using models instead of CG. Even parts of Otoh Gunga and Geonosis used real sets as oppossed to digital backdrops...and many of the creature and droid effects(Protocol units mostly--those battle droids are too thin to fit a human actor) still require human actors or remote-control devices. Kamino and Coruscant also used a few minatures as oppossed to CG buildings.



  7. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    True, Chris2.

    But what you've said will fall on deaf ears. Some people are determined to believe that every single thing in both TPM and AOTC was CGI.
  8. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Actually, there is a ton of model work in Attack Of The Clones! Much of what people mistake for "CGI backgrounds" are actually the work of ILM's talented and dedicated model shop.
  9. RogueTrader Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 7, 2002
    star 4
    >>>where else are star wars fans supposed to share their dissapointment about the saga?<<<

    How long does this take? When does one say, "okay. i've got that off my chest. time to move on." Or does it EVER end?

    What does discussing the points of the saga that you hate achieve? A better understanding of that hatred? Do you feel it's worthwhile?

    I'm just curious? Not trying to be rude. I'd like an honest answer.
  10. Imperial_Guard Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2002
    star 4
    Where's Dr. Phil when you need him? :D 8-}
  11. Kryatt_Dragon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2002
    star 2
    As far as the narrative goes, I don't think it really has to do with incredible acting or an intricate plot as much as it has to do with tapping into mythological elements that are quite far-reaching and universal in their appeal. I also believe that mythological imagery, re-invented in the SW context, also plays a big part.

    Very true.

    However, I would say that the more mundane yet meaningful things such as friendship, faith and devotion also factor in heavily for Star Wars.
  12. hoth-nudist Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2000
    star 3
    Dr.Phil probably thinks the PT sucks too, imperial guard. I dont care what you say or think about those of us FANS that are disappointed with GL's obnoxious vision. Your opinion has as much value as a pea pod. I think some of the effects in the PT are ok. I just think they are too overkill to blend in with the OT. Anakin: "I think he's a she, and I think she's a shapeshifter." Spam Weasel as a shapeshifter? its so star trek. In fact its in star trek 6. And yes the (original) OT is where its at. Hawks topic has a good point concerning the continuity fx. Ultimate edition? Surely you jest! How many directors need to refine and refine and refine editions of their movies?
  13. obhavekenobi78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    "How many directors need to refine and refine and refine editions of their movies?"


    Considering you probably can't name another six part saga that was filmed over a span of thirty years, none. Are you paying attention?

    I love how you tell a poster that his opinion has no worth and then go on an enlighten us with yours.
  14. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    Actually, there is a ton of model work in Attack Of The Clones! Much of what people mistake for "CGI backgrounds" are actually the work of ILM's talented and dedicated model shop.

    I suppose I should be thankful for that, but then comes the comparison between bluescreen model backdrops (Kamino cloning facility) vs. practical sets (Dagobah). Anyone know off-hand the percentage of shots in AOTC that are bluescreened or have bluescreen elements? I would wager somewhere around 90%. Even that figure might be too conservative.

    Again, I repeat that I greatly prefer models to CG, but that I prefer practical sets to models. I imagine most actors would agree.
  15. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    I am not that bothered about CGI, as I have always said. If they can pull it off, it's great and I have to say the Clonetroopers were amazing in AOTC. It was mainly the story and lack of imagination in creating different worlds that brought AOTC down in my estimation.
  16. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    There was a problem with the storyline and a general lack of imagination in your mind? Could you please substantiate your assessment?
  17. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    So now aliens that weren't created in the OT, are too Star Trek? Lucas can't have shapeshifters, otherwise it's Star Trek?


    Yeah, right. [face_plain]
  18. Darth_Terrell Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2002
    star 2
    " Again, I repeat that I greatly prefer models to CG, but that I prefer practical sets to models. I imagine most actors would agree."

    Well, if you can tell me how Lucas is supposed to build real sets and use real landscapes for much of AOTC, I'd like to hear it. What landscape can he use that resembles Geonosis? I guess he could fly to Mars and shoot that. What about Kamino? What about Coruscant? What about the arena? How is he supposed to build these things? Just for your info, they did use a lot of real sets. But many things in AOTC cannot be duplicated in real life, for a reasonable cost. Most of the landscapes are so different that they can't use real ones. No human in makeup can depict a geonosion. They can't makeup a human to resemble a Kaminoan.

    I will say this. Lucas does tend to use CGI in places he doesn't have to. He would have been better off using extras in clone trooper costumes, as he did in the originals even though the CGI clone troopers look photorealistic. He should try to create as much as he can with actors, real landscapes, and live sets, and then use CGI when he can't. But that's just the point. So much of these films can't be duplicated in a traditional manner.

    " Compare the effects. In AOTC, Corusant is littered with all sorts of CGI. The ships are overkill (Obi-Wan's fighter in two parts etc). When we finally get to the OT, people will say, what happened to the Clones repeater guns, the big laser guns and the super battle droids and the transforming fighters? What happened to the technology? What happened to the cloning? What happened to the huge armies of droids and clones? Why do we only see smaller (more realistic) armies when clones or droids should be plentiful? Where are the curved and double-bladed lightsabers?"

    How many damn times do I have to explain this. They aren't supposed match. There was more technology, grand cities, fancy vehicles, and fancy clothes in the prequels. Why? Because it's the height of the Republic. A different time period. All of these things are important. The reason they don't exist in the OT is simply because the Empire has destroyed the Republic. They have a stranglehold on technology, not allowing anyone to have that kind of technology, most especially the rebels. Fashion no longer matters. Survival matters. The Rebels have to used whatever was left over, or what they can create. They had to clothe themselves with regular garments rather than fancy clothers. They hid because they were hiding from the empire. I can go on and on. It's part of the story.

    The reason there aren't massive droid armies in the originals is because they find out the droids are not efficient. That's why the clone troopers become the storm troopers. They are better and can think independently. This is all part of the story. I would have thought real Star Wars fans would have known that.

    And no, this isn't my opinion. This came directly from Lucas' mouth in interviews explaining the different time periods. As for the originals, they will get a few enhancements to the effects.

  19. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    As for fashion-most of those wearing fancy dresses are Senators on Coruscant, and we don't really visit Coruscant. Nevertheless we do see some of Palpatine's aides in ROTJ(Possibly the replacements for Mas Ammeda and Sly Moore), dressed in some fancy clothes...and Leia's outfit in ANH is a formal dress(We don't see her use more practical outfits until the sequels). Most of the OT characters are military and naval personnel, to boot. The Jedi and Tatooine commoner garb in the PT is consistent with that in the OT.
  20. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    As for practical sets in AOTC:

    Coruscant:

    -All the apartments and offices are solid sets. Some of the building exteriors were realized with models for close-up shots.

    -Full-scale models of the two airspeeders were used for close-ups of the actors during the chase.

    -The Club's exterior is a partial set.

    -The Club interior is a full solid set. The only CG element seems to be the screens.

    -Dexter's Diner is a solid set, with the possible exception of the background(Hard to tell).

    -The "Bus station" is a full set with a little bit of CG.

    -The Senate is a mostly CG set, with the exception of some of the platforms and walls.

    -Sith hiding place is partially solid, partially CG.

    -The Gathering area appears to be mainly CG.

    KAMINO

    -The interior sets and landing platforms are solid with very minor CG elements. The 'rain' and sea is all CG, though.

    -The Clone area is CG with partial sets for close-ups.

    -Some of the Clone area was realized using models.

    NABOO

    -Most of Naboo is filmed on-location in Spain and Italy, and sets from PHANTOM such as the Palace were re-used. A few shots-mainly long-shots-use CG.

    -The Meadow scene was filmed outside in an actual meadow. The waterfalls were CG, though. As were the animals.

    -Solid sets back in Australia for the rest of Naboo.

    TATOOINE

    -Tatooine, once again, is mostly realised using on-location shooting at Tunisia. The Lar's set is the exact same used for A NEW HOPE.

    -The background during Anakin's speeder-bike ride is CG.

    -However, the Jawa camp is a model superimposed with live-action, plus an extra sun.

    -Long-shots of the Tusken camp are probably CG. The rest is probably a darkened solid.

    GEONOSIS

    -Geonosis is mostly a mixture of partial sets with CG additions and backgrounds. For long-shots of Geonosian structures some minature models are used. The largest set without any real CG added to it is Dooku's conference table.
  21. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Long-shots of the Tusken camp are probably CG.

    Actually, the Tusken camp was a model.
  22. Darth_Terrell Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2002
    star 2
    There were a few full scale tusken huts. But for the most part, it was a model.

    "The waterfalls were CG, though."

    Actually, it was said that the waterfall scene on Naboo was create by splicing a number of real waterfalls together to create one large one.
  23. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Well, however those waterfalls were done, they were stunning.
  24. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    there is a feature on the waterfalls on the TPM dvd i beleive. multiple shots of actual footage of actual waterfalls were used as textures on CG shapes and combined and blended with CG accents such as foam and spray.
  25. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    And salt. And most of the figures at the Boonta Eve arena were Q-tips and part CGI and model, IIRC.
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