Continuity with the special effects = NONE!

It's funny how hand-held repeater guns were freqently used in AOTC but in the OT, they decided that single shot blasters are only needed. Riiight.

It's funny how all the ships have touch screen monitors in the PT with big colourful displays but in the OT this technology is replaced by dials and push buttons even on the Star Destroyers.

It's funny how all the battles in the PT comprise of huge armies but in the OT, we get 20 or 30 Stormtroopers at most holding there single shot blasters.

What about those cool choppers in AOTC that shoot that huge oozing laser than wipes out everything. A shame the Empire decided not to use that technology anymore. The battle of Endor would have been over in seconds.

Did anyone see the effectiveness of the Superbattle droids? In the OT, we don't even see a broken down battledroid in the background. Funny how they just vanished entirely when they were so common.

Luke's speeder is pretty cool but who would have thought you could get jazzed up hot-rods that zip through the sky. He may not be on Corusant but the people on Tatoonie got jipped on vehicles didn't they?

The truth is, if Lucas made the OT today, it would look like the PT. For those who would really want hundreds of fighters at Yavin, you have a serious taste problem. The SUBTLETY of the OT is an advantage not a disadvantage.

 

>>>The truth is, if Lucas made the OT today, it would look like the PT.<<<

Damn straight! It's what he really wanted to begin with.

I don't really know what YOU want. A consistent look? The only way to get that for sure would be to update the OT again. If ILM went around throwing your broken down battle droids into backgrounds, you'd never hear the end of it. You saw what kind of complaints the SE's generated.

Again, don't blame Lucas for the cool new effects of the PT. Blame mankind's slow progression in the film fx industry.

And as far as the Empire "downgrading" equipment, I always figured Palpatine preffered quantity over quality. Compare a tie to an x-wing. Ties have one weapon, no hyperdrive, and no life support in the cockpit. Their advantage? They outnumber the rebels 10 to 1.

 

The hypocracy of the prequel haters. They claim that they like the 'Original Trilogy' better because a good story and believable characters are more important than Special Effects, yet at the same time they denounce the complex story of Attack of the Clones for no reason other then the fact that the movies has good special effects! It's kinda like reverse racism in a twisted sort of way...

 

Just please don't act like a jerk. So far all you've had to offer in this thread is negativity and insults.

"Oh, he excels at it, sir."

 

The technology that is in prequel-era ships is TOO expensive to be mass-produced for a reasonable price. I love the prequels, but I still watch ANH the most. I am not thrown by ANH in comparison to the prequels. It all dovetails as far as I'm concerned. Hitler closed down the more innovative design firms in Germany when he was in power. The results of the Empire are typical of the real world when Totalitarianism takes over. The continuity is fine, and the prequels provide new implications in the old movies to say the least. It is very easy to believe ANH is the 4th episode in the series that starts with TPM.

 

Quote
"The truth is, if Lucas made the OT today, it would look like the PT. For those who would really want hundreds of fighters at Yavin, you have a serious taste problem. The SUBTLETY of the OT is an advantage not a disadvantage."

That is a really backwards and lame backhanded insult. There's nothing "subtle" about Lucas and there never was. There weren't 30 fighters and 4/5 AT-ATs in TESB because they were being subtle. That's all they could do with the time and the budget that they had.

Even with the FX that we now consider quaint and primitive, the biggest complaint that critics of the OT had was that the films were too FX heavy; the same criticisms that the PT have.

All Lucas ever said during the 80's is that he wasn't happy with the FX. There was no subtlty in the OT. It was over the top. It only looks subtle now in comparision. Don't apply the virtue of subtletly that's only a lack of funds and time. And don't expect Lucas to go all retro when he finally has the FX technology he's been waiting for just to please some continutity obsessed fans.

 

And because of that fact, the FX in the PT will look outdated and subtle 20 years from now, the same as the OT. It's always been like that. It's the way things are. And if for some strange, bizarre reason, we all happen to remember this argument 20 years from now, which would indicate we all have no lives at all, then you would see it's the same thing that has happened with the OT now.

 

It's funny how all the battles in the PT comprise of huge armies but in the OT, we get 20 or 30 Stormtroopers at most holding there single shot blasters.

Also funny how large battles require more soldiers than small conflicts do.

Luke's speeder is pretty cool but who would have thought you could get jazzed up hot-rods that zip through the sky. He may not be on Corusant but the people on Tatoonie got jipped on vehicles didn't they?

What need do you have to go up, when there's nowhere to go up to? Tatooine doesn't exactly look like the richest planet in the galaxy either.

The SUBTLETY of the OT is an advantage not a disadvantage.

Of course, I've alwas though hundreds of TIE fighters, and TIE Interceptors screaming towards the screen was subtle as well.

 

And there was nothing subtle about all those laser bolts flying every which way in the Death Star scenes. As I said, people forget that those lasers were as noticable an effect in 1977 as a CGI alien is today.

 

That is a really backwards and lame backhanded insult. There's nothing "subtle" about Lucas and there never was. There weren't 30 fighters and 4/5 AT-ATs in TESB because they were being subtle. That's all they could do with the time and the budget that they had.

Oh really? That comment shows a lot. Compare the scene where the Imperials are sitting around discussing the Rebels in comparison to Dooku talking to all those aliens. Which is more subtle? Lucas could have easily littered that scene in ANH with creatures or devices but instead chose the actors to do all the work for him. You will NEVER get a scene like that in SW again. NEVER.

Secondly, Lucas had the chance to update the end battle of Yavin and he did. Did he litter the screen with hundreds of fighters? This would have been an easy task. NO instead he just touched up the already subtle battle. Yes, we are talking relatively. ANH is not as subtle as many other films but COMPARED to TPM and AOTC it definately is.

Compare the performances. If we had it your way PadmeBra, all the battles would be as flat as the one in TPM. That is, we have many dogfights going on with lots of explosions but no concentration on small scale battles like we got in ANH and TESB. Perhaps Lucas DID want bigger just like TPM and I even suggested this is the case. But these limitations of effects allowed for smaller scale battles where we could see the plight of individual fighters and actually feel something for them. Compare this the the grand battle in AOTC which had NO meaning. I didn't know any of those clones or battle droids. They were simply churned out by a computer.

Even with the FX that we now consider quaint and primitive, the biggest complaint that critics of the OT had was that the films were too FX heavy; the same criticisms that the PT have.

I have read many past reviews and I have yet to see this complaint. I may have looked at the wrong reviews but many complained about not enough character interaction or something. But I could be wrong.

All Lucas ever said during the 80's is that he wasn't happy with the FX. There was no subtlty in the OT. It was over the top. It only looks subtle now in comparision. Don't apply the virtue of subtletly that's only a lack of funds and time. And don't expect Lucas to go all retro when he finally has the FX technology he's been waiting for just to please some continutity obsessed fans.

I agree it is comparison but how else are we supposed to evaluate subtlety seriously??

Some examples of moments in the OT that demonstrated total subtlety not at the expense of a limited budget?

1. The conversation in Ben's hut.
2. The conversation between Luke and his Uncle and Aunt.
3. The scene where Han, Obi-Wan and Luke barter over the transport.
4. The scene in TESB when Han and Luke say their goodbyes on Hoth.


There are many more.

Compare this to most scenes in the PT where Lucas just has to have some creature or effect showing off in the background. Examples:

1. JJ slurping fruit during the dinner scene.
2. The droids fixing the window while Padme and Anakin talk.
3. Anakin playing around with his levitation skills while he talks.
4. Fruit flying into Padme's mouth.


Lucas used to be able to create films where characters would discuss and develop without the aid of special effects. Today virtually every shot has an effect in it as though he is scared to leave the story development up to the actors.

Perhaps he would have done the same with the OT initially. But I always get the feeling that with wonderful scenes like the one with the Imperials or in Ben's hut are too slow for today's audiences or, at least, Lucas seems to think so.

 

"Compare the scene where the Imperials are sitting around discussing the Rebels in comparison to Dooku talking to all those aliens. Which is more subtle?"

Yeah, and what about the cantina sequence in ANH, or that scene with Vader briefing all the alien bounty hunters in ESB? Or Jabba's Palace? Aren't those all over the top too?

"Lucas could have easily littered that scene in ANH with creatures or devices but instead chose the actors to do all the work for him. You will NEVER get a scene like that in SW again. NEVER."

How about the scenes involving Yoda, Mace or the Jedi Council? Or any of the scenes with Palpatine (Anakin and Palpatine in AOTC for example) Or the the meeting with Queen Jamilla?

 

1. The conversation in Ben's hut.
2. The conversation between Luke and his Uncle and Aunt.
3. The scene where Han, Obi-Wan and Luke barter over the transport.
4. The scene in TESB when Han and Luke say their goodbyes on Hoth.

Well, Luke is playing around with a lightsaber for a portion of his conversation with Ben, and there are a bunch of aliens walking around while Ben, Luke, Han, and Chewie are talking (your example of the droids replacing the window is just as subtle as the aliens). Plus the fact that Anakin playing with the ball is an example of how he uses the Force frivolously, which is a rather arrogant thing to do (the fruit is also an example of this). But ignoring those points, I'll see your four scenes and raise you these:

1. Anakin and his mother in the Tusken tent
2. Obi-Wan and Anakin's conversation in Padme's apartment
3. The fireplace scene (whether you like the scene or not, there's no "effect showing off in the background")
4. The political conversation in the meadow

As for TPM:
1. Anakin saying goodbye to his mother
2. Qui-Gon's conversation with Shmi
3. The japor snippet scene
4. Palpatine and Amidala's conversation on the Republic

 

Well, about the army size there's the thing. Lucas had a small amount to spend back then. And so, the Stormtroopers looked small in numbers. Yet in ANH SE, he added a CGI shot of more Stormtroopers aboard the DS. Endor was easy to pull off as we saw a huge forest and not all the troopers. If Lucas had the money and time, he would've had more Imperials in the conference room. And more of the stuff in the SE's.

Blaster styles changed. No biggie. Not everyone is going to analyize that.

Luke's speeder. Well, let's see. The Lars are dirt poor. Barely scraping to get by. Hence a POS vehicle that he used. His speed vechile was the T-16 that he used to bullseye Womprats.

Battle Droids are ineffective as the Republic won the Clone Wars. Stormtroopers are superior.

 

Oh really? That comment shows a lot. Compare the scene where the Imperials are sitting around discussing the Rebels in comparison to Dooku talking to all those aliens.

You fail to take in the fact that the Emperor promoted genocide. You don't see aliens in the Empire, because Palpatine HATED them. On the other hand, the sepratists are a rag tag group of people from all across the galaxy rising up against the Republic.

 

Yet in ANH SE, he added a CGI shot of more Stormtroopers aboard the DS.

Those weren't CGI, they were actually filmed. (gotta mention it, so someone doesn't complain about Lucas "CG-ing up" the scene)

As for technology, it has advanced significantly in the 22 years between AOTC and ANH.

PT: Separate hyperspace ring required.
OT: Hyperdrive built in.

PT: Shiny metal prosthetic hand for Anakin.
OT: Natural-looking prosthetic hand (with pain receptors) for Luke.

PT: A lot of missiles and other projectile weapons.
OT: Except for the proton torpedoes in ANH, all energy weapons.

PT: Most powerful weapon - Big turbolasers.
OT: Most powerful weapon - Lasers that can destroy a planet.

Sure, the OT ships are less attractive than the PT ships, but the PT ones are designed either for leisure (Coruscant speeders) or by a very artistic society (anything from Naboo), while the OT ones are either made for war or on Tatooine, a dirt-poor planet. When you need to get lots of ships for a war, you don't care whether they look good, just whether they work. The OT has many attractive ships in non-battle areas, for example Cloud City and its vehicles. In the same way, the PT has more utilitarian ships used in combat (AT-TE, Jedi starfighter, Republic gunships, Republic assault carriers, etc.)

 

I don't think anyone has yet brought up the GL segment on the latest OT video release.

Does anybody honestly think that visual continuity hasn't crossed GL's mind?

I'm fairly confident that Episode III will address these questions through the narrative as well as the rumored ultimate editions which will give the effects a nice facelift.

And no visual continuity? The OT effects aren't THAT dated.

The segment with Duel of the Fates on the OT video release with TPM footage intercut with the OT showed that there is an underlying visual continuity already. I thought the footage flowed together pretty well actually.

EDIT: There's a scene in AOTC which is a direct parallel to ANH where Luke is talking to his aunt and uncle. In AOTC, it involves Anakin, Padme, Cliegg Lars, and a younger Owen and Beru. No 'in your face effects' in the prequel version either.

And should I mention the cantina scene in ANH with all those 'annoying' creature effects or did somebody already bring that up?

 

"for example, the technology exists to animate Han to realistically dodge the shot."

you mean that same great technology that made anakin look so realistic riding the shaak and made 3PO look so cool bending and stretching all over the factory?

yeah, its gonna look fantastic.

 

courasant (shown in jedi SE)

all of the huge battles are over with by the OT, then its broken down into gurilla warfare.

the shuttles are mass produced stuff in the ot, the pt were handcrafted.

the costumes have been molded to the OT watch aotc closer.

its just not that big a deal.

 

One day, in about 15 years or so, I am going to look back on the prequel-haters of today and laaaaauuuuugh.

 

Dr.E's right where's all this great technology I keep hearing about?

 

Umm .. i don´t know if this has been answer before but, ....

What happened to the Droidekas shielding in AOTC?

 

Darth-Sinister wrote--"Luke's speeder. Well, let's see. The Lars are dirt poor. Barely scraping to get by. Hence a POS vehicle that he used. His speed vechile was the T-16 that he used to bullseye Womprats."

I hate to be too much of a nerd here, but just for clarity, The Lars had their own speeder, aside from Luke's that can be seen somewhere in the background in ANH. As for the T-16? That vehicle can be seen in the background of ANH SE, its the T-16 Skyhopper and it is not the brown landspeeder that Luke sold at Mos Eisley.

 

"I am going to look back on the prequel-haters of today and laaaaauuuuugh."

meanwhile people will be watching the PT for 15 years, laughing at the wrong time because of how laughably bad some of it is, like they did both times i saw AOTC.

 

[/Yawn]

No one holds a gun to anyones head to watch these films, maybe, [shock|horror] you should just not watch them anymore And if you haters would stop discussing it that would be great too

 

Imagine a prequel discussion board that contained only fans of the prequels where members can discuss the deeper implications of these amazing movies.