ST Contradicting Characters Origins

None of that is stated in the film. Even if that were true, it's not a matter of the film making it clear enough, it's a matter of fans having longer to come up with explanations.

But I don't think it's true. R2 is depicted as being in a desperate bind in the early part of ANH. He didn't have any control where he landed, he had to wander around in the desert, he got captured and enslaved, he nearly got separated from 3P0, and it was only 3P0's quick thinking that saved him.

 

Quoting. That is really something.

 

Actually it is, with the message that Leia sent to Kenobi it is perfectly clear that R2's mission is to find him and since he tells C3P0 that he will go in a certain way when the other way was much easier (as pointed out by C3P0) and then he runs away from Luke and seems to end up in the same kind of rocky terrain where he was captured in the first place. Then they run into Kenobi when they were looking for him how odd. You are right he has no idea where he's going

From the holo message that Kenobi gets from Leia I would draw the following conclustion:

• She knows his location (or at least general neighbourhood)
• Since she sent R2 to deliver the message she must have given him this location
• Adjusting the approximate landing site of an escape pod should not be too hard for R2 (he is an astromech droid that calculates hyperspace routes), as for not having any control over it the only thing we know for sure is that the Imps think it short circuited since there are no life forms aboard

In my mind we get all these plausible explanations in ANH but none in TFA.

 

Yes, Rey scavenging stuff doesnt automatically turn her into a mechanic or else everyone else there were mechanics. But she does say that she was worked on the falcon. I think some good chuck, actually all, of scenes were dropped explaining the relationship between that dealer dude and her. It was weird that she knew how to open all those doors in SK base.

Finn actually says droid please as in please-please, he was begging. He wasnt using earth slang.
Yes, we needed a bit more info on his background cause it is jarring to have the dude freak out in one scene then be fine blowing up everything else soon after. I guess the excuse is that he didnt want to kill other people but the scene does start with him freaking out over his buddy dying. Yeah he was too jokey and he should've been a bit more serious.

Poe is just "the best pilot" and that's it. He was barely there.

Ren, like all other characters, almost doesnt get a background. He is a dark jedi that is all about anger which i think it's fine. humanizing him may cause trouble in the future. We better get a detail background to buy him being so evil.

 

Finn I believe has no issue firing on soldiers, it's civilians that are his hangup. The book Before the Awakening supports that. He also doesn't seem to be very close with anyone and a bit of an outsider.

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk

 

To join on Friday and then bash the film should be a barrier to entry in the forums.

Sorry - you'll find no friends here.

 

Right, point me to the scene where it is explained that R2 calculates hyperspace routes. You are forgetting how much extra-textual knowledge you have about how the SW universe works up to this point. Every point listed there is based on your intuitive assumptions about what is happening based on other evidence. It isn't ever spelled out.

And for the sake of curiosity and perhaps for the same fair chance at rebuttal, please give some examples of things that aren't explained in TFA.

 

For the naysayers, just because I joined recently hardly means I'm bashing blindly. I joined because places like Reddit just downboat EVERYTHING. I like that somehow me joining recently is your entire argument.

For those saying I'm taking a movie too seriously... We are on a discussion forum, did you realize that? Maybe you should head over to circlejerk kingdom Reddit, I think you'll really like it there.

Uh.. Rey is super skinny and shes pretty visually displeased she gets a single hunk of bread for her work that day. If she's not malnourished... how isn't she?

I didn't say she should be on the dark side, re-read it. I said that anger is an often used aspect of the dark side in the Star Wars verse.

You realize the vast majority of people in brutal beginnings merely repeat the cycle of violence in their respective circles right? There's a reason ghettos don't just suddenly evaporate one day.

Individuals who manage to survive and escape humble/brutal beginnings are often only able to by having support systems. Siblings, parents, teachers, some type of loved one to help guide them and support them. I never said she needs to be evil... Even though people like to equate the Star Wars universe to being black and white its actually pretty grey under-neath. This isn't terribly obvious because the grey is never addressed in the movies, in fact it directly labels the dark side as being evil. The Jedis we meet in the PT are pompous and readily use the clones which isn't really that far from slavery. Not to mention Anakin was a slave and that means the Jedis allow slavery in the first place.

The pale comment was just me saying shes a pale girl, I wasn't even relating to it that she should be tan, although at the end of the day she really should look like Pig Pen from The Peanuts considering her living conditions...

A lot of this could have been prevented by her having some kind of confidant. A close friend, an old man/women, SOMETHING. But they didn't, which dramatically alters her entire life to that point.

She should be some mix of on edge, unsocial, untrusting and just generally not-nice.

As the topic title says.. the characters origins contradict the characters we meet. If you like the characters, I honestly don't, but its fine if you like them, that doesn't suddenly make their origins any less contradicting.

I also see some people trying to use OT again to make a point.. I request that you people actually watch OT because the amount of times I see people spit out blatantly false information from OT is amazing.

It's pretty clear cut what happens in the beginning of OT. Leia is heading to Tattoine to find Obi-Wan. She's in trouble so she uses R2 to bring a message to Obi-Wan. R2 and CP30 escape via escape pod, they were near Tattoine.. so naturally the pod lands there. They are picked up by Jawas who are well known traders. Luke and his Uncle have clearly dealt with the Jawas more then once before, this is unsurprising to say the least. They need to buy droids for help on their farm.

Side Note: It was clarified by George at some point that the dark side is the perversion of the force. The force in its natural state is simply the force, it is not the 'light' side. This is why Anakin was prophesied to bring balance to the force, he killed the last of the Sith, Emperor Palpatine, as he turns from the dark side in the ultimate tale of redemption.

WookieShampoo I'm not sure what nice world view you have of the imperials. Stormtroopers are supposed to be unflinchingly loyal soldiers from birth to death. There is no endgame for them, no reprieve. They exist for the sole purpose of serving the Empire The First Order. Having your soldiers have babies for the sole purpose of new babies would be a ridiculously large operation and costly...

In-world logic would dictate they started kidnapping babies cuz they were poor, even though they somehow have the resources to build Planet WMD.

 

I never said you were taking it too seriously, I said you were putting too much serious thought into making logical sense out of a fantasy story. I guarantee you I can TEAR APART the OT if I did that, but I adore the OT as it is so I have no reason to do so. I get the feeling like there is absolutely no way you were ever going to be happy with this film because you expected it to a very specific set of things.

 

Honestly I expected nothing of this movie. I figured it could maybe be at least PT level or better with a decent cast. The ultra high reviews had me thinking, 'huh, maybe its better then the PT'. Then, I watch it and am repulsed by how much it insults its viewers and the Star Wars universe. I wasn't even excited for this movie, not even a little. I figured if it was going to be a bad Star Wars film I'd just chalk it up as another meh film. But the Star Wars Movies aren't adaptions, not like Marvel or GoT. The Star Wars movies are the top of the pyramid. Knowing that ALL Star Wars mythology has been damaged, all the future games, comics, whatever. Yeah, you can say I'm pretty miffed about it.

Star Wars became what it has BECAUSE of passionate fans, as any popular property does. Sure, casual fans bring the the money, but the passionate fans are the ones that keep a property alive in down periods, slow periods, and snap up the casuals in the highs.

Also I am applying in-world logic to almost everything I say. In the world of Star Wars there are 'consistencies' and TFA breaks a ****ton of them.

 

Let me re-emphasize my point. You seem to have a very specific list of things in your mind that a Star Wars movie needs to be to "count" as Star Wars. You went into TFA with this bias regardless of whether or not you are admitting it, inasmuch as you are very well repeatedly saying it.

And you seem to think that passionate fans will automatically dislike this film because they understand Star Wars. I grew up on Star Wars. I have adored it for many years. The prequels hurt me bad but I got over it. TFA reinvigorated my love for all things Star Wars. This is a truth that I simply won't let anyone who hates the film tell me isn't true.

I'm also really struggling with your line about Star Wars having been so consistent in a world where the prequels got made.
You are choosing to believe with your interpretation of what you saw on screen that this film had inconsistencies with previously established Star Wars facts. I think there are little to none of them which is insanely hard to do in any IP that is as big as Star Wars. Do you know how hard continuity is in an IP this big? George couldn't even do it.

 

Actually my list for what made Star Wars special is pretty easy to say, two words really constitute all of it. 'Creative, Imaginative'. Something the Prequels did albeit stumbled greatly in some areas. TFA has nothing creative about it. It's as bland as it can get. There are no memorable vistas, no magnificent scenery, the visuals aren't even that great. I was pretty underwhelmed by all of the action. I don't consider any of the fights memorable whatsoever.

I get it. This is the age where Transformers gets universally hated but makes the GDP of a small country. Where Fast and the Furious is pretty dull yet makes the same money Transformers does. Fast pacing combined with shallow action and shallow worlds is selling like hot cakes. Disney has figured out the formula to trick people into thinking their movies are great, all they have to do is tickle the hivemind in the right places. Look at the Marvel movies, they are making a killing and most of them are decent movies that mostly respect the source material. This roughly only achieved because the writers of the comics themselves are often involved. However at the end of the day people mostly just refer to them as the 'Marvel movies'. Rarely does anyone bring up the Avengers by itself, or iron man, or thor, or captain america, etc.

I did not say passionate fans will automatically dislike TFA. I said passionate fans are what made Star Wars what it became, because it captured their imaginations. TFA doesn't capture your imagination, it vigorously massages your lizard brain.

Without the Star Wars skin draped on TFA, there's no way its remembered in a few years, just like the other shallow action popcorns of the last decade.

It's generally fair that even lovers of TFA have conceded its basically A New Hope. Tell me, would this movie had been able to generate even a fraction of the fans had it released instead of ANH?

 

Ohhhh you're a bigot. Okay now this all makes sense now. Got it.

 

Wow so you point that out from all that as the flaw. Now I don't think it was mentioned in the film but then since we in the real world used the computer power of a modern day calculator to land on the moon I would assume an astromech droid from an advanced civilisation would be able to handle that minor task but I guess when you are trying to defend the no logic in TFA you have to latch on to the smallest bit of hope to have any sort of argument at all. So that is why I don't find it very unrealistic that R2 found his way to Kenobi.

Compare that to Finn's TIE fighter getting hit and spiralling out of control and just happen to crash close to where Rey and BB8 are, I would actually expect their ship to burn up in re-entry given their uncontrolled descent.

 

I'm not sure whether Jakku was particularly violent. That alien carrying bb-8 didn't even put up a fight when rey tried to free him. She's a boring loner, yes. I find it implausable that she goes home to her makeshift shelter every night without going crazy. She's pretty basic and good natured for being so lonely. At least give us someone a bit eccentric and edgy. I think anyone would be a weirdo if they lived like that. It would be more plausable if they showed her stealing food or something. Yet, she works like a slave but isn't a slave for next to nothing. She was honestly kind of sad.

 

In one of the books she is a loner by choice, a troublemaker, never trusting anyone, always expecting people to steal stuff from her.

 

The escape pod jettisoned from the Tantive IV essentially just spun and fell toward Tatooine(granted a bit more controlled). You are applying your real world knowledge of astro-physics to the Star Wars universe which never attempts to explain how the universe works in that regard because it's fantasy. I could make an argument like "Shields prevent burning up in the atmosphere" etc but why? Why go to any length to try to make sense out of this absolutely irrelevant point to the plot?

As far as why he crashed close, well you could also assume that Poe had them on a trajectory heading for somewhat near Niima outpost since he knows where he last left BB-8. But once again it really doesn't matter, I feel silly even making this point because none of it can be proven one way or the other and it really doesn't have to be. My preferred head-canon is that The Force brings together certain people whose destinies will impact the galaxy greatly.

I would gladly converse with you on further inconsistencies in the plot if you have more to offer, I find that this film subtlely explains a lot that I didn't see upon first or 2nd viewings.

 

I apologize for misinterpreting the passionate fan part. I can certainly tell you are as well.

As far as your statement about lizard brain I'm not entirely sure of your meaning and so I request that you elaborate. I wish you had phrased it as "TFA doesn't capure MY imagination." It has certainly captured the imagination of many others, including myself. My favorite thing about it though is my emotional connection to the majority of the characters, and maybe that IS different than the original SW but it's a welcome change for me. I even like BB-8 *gasp* more than R2-D2. That took me awhile to ascertain though.

 

Rey didn't seem to think her so-called family abandoned her, but just thought they left her there for some kind of important reason and will return.
Finn froze up because it was his first battle and he didn't seem trained for fighting as much as others. I do think the movie should have emphasized that he was motivated to escape the ship, take advantage of Poe's skills, and leave the First Order in fear of his "reconditioning" and punishment for his offense.

 

Yet again I will just stop in and say I loved TFA and disagree with nearly everything you said....ESPECIALLY when you said Poe wasn't charismatic...he had more charm in his 20 mins of screen time then I have seen in most movies.

 

Yeah absolutely agree about Poe's charm, he was instantly likable.

When he gives that bit of attitude to Kylo, "So who talks first?" Not only some great writing but perfect delivery.

 

ROTS shows Invisible Hand's bridge burning up on re-entry. It retained antigravity sufficient to survivably crash land. TIEs clearly can levitate at rest as seen then they cover the departure of Ren's ship from Maz castle. Finn of course wakes up in an ejection seat with parachute. A New Hope Biggs tells Porkins to eject. X-Wings are 'well-equipped'.

I'd like to know how close the village with Sydow is in relation to where Rey turns in her salvage.

 

There are several threads already in existence where this could go:
The Cave

Your Own Review thread