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[Controversial Thread #1] Why do we care that people deny the holocaust?

Discussion in 'Big Brother 5' started by malkieD2, Jun 23, 2009.

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  1. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    Motivated by this article :- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8097979.stm

    Why does anyone care that there are people who deny that the holocaust occured?
    Why is it a criminal offense to deny the holocaust ?
     
  2. harpua

    harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Because it was a horrible event, and many lives were lost?
     
  3. TheGuardianofArlon

    TheGuardianofArlon Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Because they're stupid, and the refuse to believe the truth.[face_plain]


    and what harpuah said.
     
  4. ApolloSmileGirl

    ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Knight star 8

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2004
    I suffer fools lightly, so I don't care what people that deny horrors that are completely documented as factual.

     
  5. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    I know I don't care if these fools deny the holocaust. They just push themselves further and further into irrelevancy.
     
  6. harpua

    harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    I care... it pretty much pisses me off.
     
  7. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    why ?

    You're kinda missing the point of my thread here.

    It's obvious that you can't deny the disappearance of a few million people during WW2, however why should any care that some people claim it never happened ?

    You shouldn't be offended by someone's ignorance.

    No one has addressed point 2 - why is ignorance a criminal offense?

    Similarly, should we jail anyone who claims the moon landings never happened?
     
  8. MsLanna

    MsLanna Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2005
    // jailed

    :oops:
     
  9. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    As someone from Germany (and whom I assume is German), can you post some thoughts on the matter?

    (for clarity I'm obviously don't deny the holocaust, I'm more interested on the inhibition of free speech aspect)
     
  10. imperial_dork

    imperial_dork Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2003
    The last quote in the BBC article pretty much sums up my feelings on this:

    "If someone thinks they are better because of the colour of their skin, their religion or where they were born, well it's irrational and deeply hateful, but unless they say you should do violence, then I'm afraid we have to accept there are people who have unpleasant opinions."


    I also think we're better off if people are freely able to expose themselves as the ignorant ****s they are. :p
     
  11. rhonderoo

    rhonderoo Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2002
    What Kendra said.

    I don't deny people's right to believe whatever they want to believe. As long as they aren't causing harm to other people. Doesn't mean they are right, or even smart...
     
  12. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    ok, while you both disagree with it, can you make any rational arguement for why it's a criminal offense?
     
  13. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    I think their rationale is that it's such a controversial issue that it can cause violence.
     
  14. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    then religion should be a criminal offense too
     
  15. imperial_dork

    imperial_dork Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2003
    Barring demonstrable proof that a specific instance of hate speech directly led to violence, harassment, etc., of their intended target, I don't think I can come up with one.
     
  16. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    And I've half-jokingly said that before as well. If you ban something just because it might cause violence then you need to go all out and ban one of the biggest sources of violence, religion.
     
  17. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    Interesting points.

    In the UK (at least) we do have laws against inciting religious hatred, and they have been used to imprison or deport those publically advocating violence against certain religions. Conversely denying the holocaust is not a criminal offense in this country.

    I genuinely don't have an agenda or bait in this thread, just trying to stir up conversation / debate to give the users something else to read.

    It's safe to assume that in the future I will be starting threads in the "Controversial Series"(TM) specifically designed to bait and hence provide drama for the watching users.
     
  18. imperial_dork

    imperial_dork Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2003
    Good. This place sure could use it. :p
     
  19. PRENNTACULAR

    PRENNTACULAR VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2005
    I <3 controversy.
     
  20. MsLanna

    MsLanna Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2005
    I don't think I represent any official point of view in that matter. Personally, i think people denying the holocaust are ***** ****!

    It does not take much effort to realise the holocaust happened. Putting time and effort into denying it suggest that you are okay with what happened and don't rally mind a repeat. I mean, it's not as if anything happened, right? All those Jews didn't die, it's all a lie. We can try again and have Nazi-Germany again all over. It's not bad, trust me, it's all going to be sunshine and WNU, like last time...
    [face_beatup]

    the reason why I think it's okay to prosecute it is, that 'denial' means you actively disclaim something you know to be true. Any reason for doing so is probably leading to worse...
     
  21. zacparis

    zacparis VIP star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Personally, I have no connection to the holocaust, and as such the debate to whether it happened or not has never bothered me.

    I do appreciate the tragedy of the event, but if people want to believe otherwise then it's up to them. We shouldn't make laws against opinions.

    My great-grandfather was a POW in a Japanese camp for several years. He never spoke of it, but if someone denied that the Japanese ever mistreated their "guests" - I wouldn't be offended.

    And besides, we've already had a controversy thread. This should be #2.
     
  22. Qui-Gon_Reborn

    Qui-Gon_Reborn Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2008
    People like to get mad. That's why the Internet was created. :p
     
  23. MsLanna

    MsLanna Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2005
    85 threads in the house without my name
    85 threads in the house
    Reply to one, add my name
    84 threads in the house without my name
     
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