Lit Coop's MARVELous Voyage

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Feb 15, 2009.

  1. Cull_Tremayne Force Ghost

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    Jun 27, 2005
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    Ignoring your supposition that Glove of Darth Vader fits into the "old sources" category, and is therefore S-canon, the Glove of Darth Vader series has been referenced in most if not all of the latest Essential Guides and the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia. Are those sources just not good enough to wrangle them in as "official" for you?

    And besides, how exactly do you reconcile the fact that the Marvel comics were reprinted by Dark Horse "after" the Holocron was created? Do we just pretend that those reprints weren't accounted for by Leland? And your main qualification for S-canon has been, "published before the holocron". These reprints weren't, so what's the deal here? The logic just doesn't hold up in this, and many other, cases. Also, that reprint made them more available to a wider audience, which is one of Leland's qualifications for whether a source falls into either canon category. Additionally, how do you understand the issue when many of the comics have been reprinted for those action figure comic packs? Wouldn't that make those particular comics "C-canon" by your definition?

    Yes, Leland did address the Marvel comics specifically as S-canon, but that statement was years ago, and how do we know that he wasn't just referring to their status at that moment, rather than "for all time", as you seem to believe? There are just so many extenuating circumstances with Marvel comics that trying to lay a blanket statement on them is dishonest, and frankly I can't see the motivation in doing so.
  2. QuentinGeorge Force Ghost

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    Dec 12, 2003
    star 5
    Not to mention that sources aren't listed in the holocron as a particular sort of canon, facts are.

    In other words, there's no "Glove of Darth Vader - S Canon" entry. There is a "Darth Vader's glove" entry, some of which is G-Canon, some C-Canon, and some S-Canon.
  3. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 11, 2002
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    MRN got shut down about this on Wookieepedia and the OS, so he's just trying the same show on a new audience. Pay him no mind. S-canon is and shall remain a part of continuity.
  4. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    I won't speak for the others, but as the person who's "running" this thread...I don't see a disagreement between that and what I'm doing. I haven't gotten to it yet, but apparently there's a story coming up where Wedge was abandoned on Hoth; I have no problem throwing that out, and/or consigning it to an in-universe urban legend, a tactic that often proves useful in severe cases. While I now get your perspective, I'm still not sure what you're actually advocating based on that perspective, but I'm guessing the conflict lies in our definitions of "discrepancy". My philosophy here, aside from, yes, being entertaining (as if I could help it :D) is to limit the amount of genuine continuity problems as much as possible through creative interpretation - you know, retconning.

    Could "Whatever Happened to Jabba the Hut?" be tossed altogether because of its incorrect depiction of Jabba? Sure, and I wouldn't lose much sleep if it was. But the strength of SW continuity lies in its all-inclusiveness, and the less often things have to be discarded entirely, the better - otherwise, where do you draw the line? There are timeline issues in Coruscant Nights that are at least as difficult to reconcile as anything I've encountered in Marvel so far, but that doesn't mean I want to send it to the scrap heap.

    And anyway, the majority of the retcons I've found myself compelled to present thus far aren't even retcons of contradictory material, per se, just material that doesn't fit my taste and/or modern sensibilities - gay Jolli being the main one.

    You summarized the official position as "when S is contradicted by C, it is discounted aka non-continuity", but - and again, I'm kind of guessing as to what you're really proposing - all that means is that the contradiction is non-continuity - was Wedge stranded on Hoth? No. Did Arns Grimraker exist? Yes, unless and until specifically contradicted elsewhere. The relationship of S to C is the same as that of C to G - yes, the latter will always win out when it has to, but when it's not absolutely necessary, they're all good.

    Do you disagree with that?
  5. DarthMRN Jedi Youngling

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    Dec 28, 2007
    star 3
    A: You're not the mod here.

    B: If you want to warn others not to derail, that applies to you too.
  6. DarthMRN Jedi Youngling

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    Dec 28, 2007
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    Fair enough, Havac. One would think trying to prevent a derailment would earn me some points, though...

    But you could at least have made a post under mine, so I didn't have to write it anew elsewhere.
  7. TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff

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    Actually, according to C-canon Planet Hoppers, Wedge was stranded on Hoth. :p

    And do we really, honestly need another S/C-canon debate? I bailed on the Kyle Katarn thread because I wasn't interested--I'd hate to see Coop's reaction to the Marvel comics supplanted by more of the same. I learned long ago that the S materials are treated as legitimate by the C canon materials (and that the C canon materials are often abused and ignored by other C canon materials) so much and so often that making any kind of distinction on my end is a waste of time.

    TC
  8. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 11, 2002
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    Have I mentioned my "Wedge Darklighter" theory?

    EDIT: Since I probably haven't, I might as well. :p

    Hoth Stuff has some odd aspects to the Wedge tale, besides the whole Janson-being-dead thing; for one, Luke speaks of Wedge as his childhood friend on Tatooine. Meanwhile, "Of Possible Futures" from Tales of the Bounty Hunters mentions an unidentified Darklighter who evacuated the Bright Hope back to Hoth.

    So therefore, Wedge from Hoth Stuff is actually Luke's childhood friend Wedge Darklighter. Janson, who's never actually given a first name in Hoth Stuff or the thing TC liked to, is some other Janson. Wedge is called "Antilles" in Hoth Stuff because...well, I haven't figured that one out yet. :p
  9. TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff

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    Actually, it's Leia who refers to Wedge as Luke's oldest friend from Tatooine, and she could simply be mistaken. Wedge later refers to a girlfriend on Tatooine, but he had been stationed there during the original Rogue Squadron game, so it's possible that he picked her up then.


    In another Planet Hoppers (Adumar), Wedge and Wes indicate that Wedge had led Luke to believe that Wes Janson had died on Hoth, presumably referring to the events of "Hoth Stuff". If you really want to get crazy, you can assume that Wes was outside the ship through the whole comic, waiting to surprise Luke--we just didn't see him in the comic. :p

    TC
  10. sonnymyson Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2004
    star 3
    Whatever you like as long as the Rogue Squadron Wedge in Dark Horse matches up with the Marvel stuff, imo [face_whistling]

    And maybe Leia meant Luke's oldest surviving friend....
  11. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Well, ladies and gentlemen...the time has come. For those of you who don't remember (or weren't here), I was unemployed for a time at the beginning of 2009, and decided to use my free time to finally read Marvel Star Wars. While doing so, I would jot down any random thoughts I had and every six issues, I would post them here. I eventually got a new job, and quickly became too busy to keep up with it, leaving off at #41--the middle of the ESB adaptation. While I'm thankfully still gainfully employed, my summer is looking free enough that I've finally resumed reading.

    I almost held off on restarting the thread, though, for two reasons--one, as you can see, the character-limit problem has chopped off large amounts of my original posts, and I don't have backups (and wouldn't want to repost the whole thing even if I did), and two, given that I crapped out so early the first time, I seriously considered finishing the entire series before I even started posting comments again. Ultimately, though, after re-reading what portions of this thread are still legible, I realized that a big part of the fun was discussing the stories with everybody more or less as I was reading them--without really knowing what was coming. As such, I'm just gonna dive right in--though first I'll repost my last entry (which I did back up) so everyone can catch up. I'm on #52 as we speak, so I do have a little bit of a head start, but the plan is to post #42-47 on Monday and just do my best from there to manage six issues every 3 days or so. Luckily Shira is coming up soon; that should keep things interesting.

    Shall we?

    Issue 37:

    I'm not entirely following the "science" of Crystal Valley, but I like the design of it.

    Visi-cube? That's...random.

    I was hoping Luke wasn't really fighting Vader somehow, but for it to have been Tagge instead is pretty clever. And it kind of hearkens to Lumiya's cloaking power in LotF.

    Vader just called Luke "puppy". Try to imagine that happening in the ESB duel.

    So after all that, Vader takes the Devastator and just leaves? With the Falcon down on the planet by itself?

    Timeline note - from #28 to #37 is described as "weeks".

    Final thoughts on the Tagge arc - I was enjoying it alright at first, but the Domina/Monastery plot didn't do much for me. I think it was too much Tagge in too long of a stretch; I actually liked the Orman/Silas stuff, and if they'd ended it after the Junction battle, and maybe done the Domina story later on, I'd be more forgiving. I do like how Orman went down, and the handling of Vader was miraculously smooth continuity-wise, if not terribly exciting. I'm annoyed that Silas was just kind of forgotten about...doesn't this make him the official Baron now? Or did Ulric keep him in stasis and take the title for himself? I was hoping the epilogue would deal with this instead of hastily throwing Jabba's bounty back into the mix.

    And that's a whole other issue unto itself - I was prepared to just think that Mosep dismissed the debt and Jabba ignored him, but what does that mean for the addition of the Crimson Jack debt, and its effect on what happens from here? Do we need to imagine that the guy in #28 actually was Jabba, and the debt was cancelled for a time? Or did the bounty actually increase after this issue, thus increasing the amount of bounty hunter pressure over the couple years leading up to ESB?

    Issue 38:

    Ah, the infamous Riders in the Void. I've been waiting for this. Interestingly, the last issue ended by saying that ESB was up next - and then this issue is printed with a spacer page before it and no number on the cover. Odd.

    I'm still looking forward to Al Williamson coming back to do the art for ESB, but even Michael Golden is a breath of fresh air after thirty issues of Infantino. Hallelujah.

    TIEs with appropriately-sized wings! I'm loving this issue already.

    Luke just told Leia he loved her. Only specific instance of that I can recall.

    That...was freakin' awesome. These sort of one-shot harder sci-fi stories from back in the day are always interesting, and it's amazing how perfectly the ship's story meshes with the Cremlevian War - obviously the Vong chased this thing away. It's disappointing to see that no one's officially made a retcon of it yet. I'm also disappointed to see this is the only issue Golden drew, but here's hoping there are a lot more stories like this coming up.

    Annual 1:

    Placement per Card's timeline.

    I'm still wary of Claremont, but I'm also still happy to be free of Infantino, so I guess it's a wash.

    It's funny to see Leia cracking jokes about other peoples' skimpy outfits, since they're all pretty modest compared to you-know-what.

    So these are the notorious Catuman warriors...oh, yeah. Totally Togorians. Far as I'm concerned, "Catuman" is just a classification, like "ninja".

    Rare GFFA reference to the existence of countries.

    Now, Katya's outfit - that's something Leia should be afraid of.

    It's weird that Chewie lets Han go off by himself all the time. I guess it speaks to his ability to take care of himself, considering what it would mean for Chewie if something happened to him.

    Smoke Demon...any other instances of gas-based life forms? Force-based or otherwise?

    Cool to actually see the torture droid in use for once.

    Flying lightsaber duel! I can't believe no one else has done this! Take note, Gilroy and Filoni.

    I know I've heard people talk about the "three Jedi Knights" reference here before - it's meant to be Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Vader. Didn't HoloNet News do something with this, or am I imagining it? This issue came out pretty close to the release of ESB; it's a shame they weren't sharing the movie info with the licensees like they did for the prequels. Come to think of it - Goodwin must've been working on the adaptation by this point. So maybe he knew but Claremont didn't.

    And with that, I shouldn't have to read one more issue where Leia still has the cinnamon buns. What a relief.

    One last comment before I get to ESB - for all the problems surrounding when these stories took place, I have to say I'm very surprised at how little time they actually need to cover. I'd always been under the impression that a huge swath of these three years had been taken up by this series, but taking out the ANH adaptation, it's actually only thirty-three issues. And with some arcs - like the six issues on the Wheel - only covering a couple days or so, you could easily fit everything up to now in as little as two or three months if you really had to. I guess what I'm saying is, this era wasn't anywhere near as crammed as I thought. Now if only we could resolve the Yavin evacuation mess.

    Issue 39:

    "After the destruction of its most feared battle station the Empire has declared martial law throughout the galaxy." - ...declared martial law? What had it been before? Obviously the Empire started cracking down harder after Yavin, but was there an actual change in the legal situation at that point?

    Luke should absolutely have shouted "Son of a jumpin'--" before the Wampa hit him.

    Unless I'm forgetting something in the novelization, this is the first specific confirmation that the impact Luke was going to check out was in fact that of the probe droid. Not that I really doubted that that was the intention, it was just one of those things I always wondered about.

    Still spelling Hutt with one T...guess it'll be another forty issues before we get that one fixed.

    Rieekan's lines in the "death mark" conversation have been given to Bren Derlin, apparently.

    Leia!! Sans buns at last!! =D= [face_dancing]

    Gank Killer reference--wow, I had no idea.

    Ooh, the Echo Base wampa attack made it in. Neat.

    According to this, Han wasn't the only rider to go out looking for Luke the first night. Another thing I was unaware of. Clearly once I've finished this project I'll have to go reread the novelizations next.

    I don't believe this--even in the comic, they're only showing the wampa's arms.

    The probe droid kills other Rebel scouts before Han and Chewie get to it.

    And...that's what Star Destroyers look like. Bless you, Al Williamson.

    Weird--it looks like Ozzel's lines are still meant to be coming from Ozzel, but the likeness is Piett's.

    Issue 40:

    "The bacta are growing well." o_O

    Luke's actually telling Leia about going to Dagobah; right after the bacta tank. That's an interesting addition.

    Vader kills Ozzel in person here. And, yep--they've definitely got Ozzel and Piett backwards.

    AT-AT chasing a tauntaun rider. [face_laugh]

    Oh, awesome--they used that famous McQuarrie painting as reference for one of the battle shots.

    Something I always wondered about - what precisely killed Dack? He didn't look burned or anything, so it must've been shrapnel or something to the torso area. Patch, you still reading?

    Wedge and Luke are specifically said to be the last survivors of Yavin - aside from Farlander (and Han and Chewie, obviously), is there anyone else this is missing? Was the guy in the Spearhead officially there? The funny thing is, even the movie shows a Y-wing flying away, so it's wrong with or without the EU.

    Issue 41:

    Weird to see Vader referred to as the stormies' "Supreme Commander".

    Instead of "hyperdrive motivator", Threepio says that the "entire para-light system" is damaged. I can't even imagine out what "para-light" might mean.

    The odds of successfully navigating an asteroid are apparently better in comic book form - only 2,467 to 1.

    "Meanwhile, not far away, at least in a galaxy where light-years are spanned simply as kilometers..." - he totally used that exact line like ten issues ago.

    Wow, here's something interesting - the scene where Piett walks in on Vader with his helmet off starts with Vader saying "Come in, Admiral." Even if the voice box was somehow still have been in place, Piett would've been able to hear his real voice as well, wouldn't he? This might be the first time in decades someone else heard Vader's real voice.


    UP NEXT!! Betrayal at Bespin!! Cody Sunn-What's-His-Face!!
  12. Ulicus Lit'ari

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    star 6
    Glad to see you back on track. :p
  13. jSarek VIP

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    I already have some comments on this group of comics here.

    Quite a few, with The Essential Guide to Warfare establishing that Blue and Green squadrons were assigned an ultimately futile mission to attack the superlaser amplification crystals. This is where Rookie One, Ru Murleen, Merrick Simms, and Jake Farrell had to have been serving, and they all survived to fight another day.
    Barriss_Coffee likes this.
  14. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    I gotta find my comics!!! I've been meaning to reread these for years. And for some reason these ESB-era ones are a complete blank in my mind at the moment.[face_thinking]
  15. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    I'll have to jump back to this thread down the road when my GCW thread brings me back to Marvel. Marvel-free for 2 years, woo! ;)
  16. Force Smuggler Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Still have to read the first Omnibus of the Marvel comics and get the rest.
  17. Gorefiend Chosen One

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    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    Good question… though in this case they are Sith spawn and since with Sith Alchemy anything goes it might really be unique.

    It was Vader, Obi-Wan and Ventor. Vader and Ventor switching blades do to some Jedi brotherhood ceremony.

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Concordance_of_Fealty

    It got mentioned in the Aliens in the Empire article, though afaik there was a Shadowfeed story on it as well.

    Military oversight? Though the martial law thing might just be an outgrowth of the Senate dissolving and the Moffs now being in charge.

    Bacta are exotic Bacteria. Which afaik is the reason it is called Bacta.

    Dak ;) and from the look of it concussion/ bodily shock by the laser blast.

    At this point he actually is Supreme Commander of the Imperial Military.

    Sidelight? [face_dunno]
  18. Darth_Arapsis Jedi Knight

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    May 21, 2013
    star 2
    I think i remember something from Twin Stars of Kira or some other rpg stuff.
  19. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Well, I know that now. :p

    Issue 42

    Hm, the very first shot of Yoda is way lankier than we're used to--but he's back to normal by the next shot.

    Luke calls his dinner a "food concentrate stick"...it always looked like a hairball to me.

    Aw, they cut out the whole "I like nice men" bit from the Han/Leia kiss.

    Wow, Yoda's house looks a lot snazzier in comic form.

    Tangential thing this reminds me of--having not seen any of the films until the SEs, my first time hearing Yoda speak was a TV commercial that included Luke's "I'm not afraid" followed by the second "You will be" from Yoda; the one where his voice gets crazy deep for a second. Because of the difference between that line and the way he's talking when he first shows up, I actually remember thinking for a second that it really wasn't Yoda himself--just another of that species. I caught on pretty quick, of course.

    Ohmigod, Han just called the mynock a "varmint".

    Interesting--they don't actually show the exogorth. I guess the concept must not have been finalized in time.

    Yoda wants Luke to cut a small metal bar in seven pieces...where have I seen that moment before?

    Luke left his X-Wing in a pond...and didn't bother to close the cockpit?

    Gah, Yoda just became a foot tall for one panel.

    Vader doesn't specifically want Han and Leia alive, he just wants "proof", hence no disintegrations.

    No Needa death.

    Issue 43

    Man, comic Cloud City has a lot more plants.

    More aliens, too. Come to think of it, are there any in the movie, not counting Ugnaughts?

    Tangential, again, but something that's always bugged me--Threepio hears an R2 unit, and...are we supposed to believe he actually thinks it might be Artoo? And if not, what exactly is the implied end of the "I wonder if..." sentence?

    No dark side cave, technically, but the tree itself is "a servant of evil". Muahaha!! [face_devil]

    Cave fight--Luke is topless for some reason. Might have been distracting in the movie.

    Luke doesn't just pull images and feelings of Cloud City from the Force, he actually says "Bespin!"

    It's funny; Williamson has Yoda down in close-ups, but his height and proportions in long shots are nuts.

    Another thing I've always wondered about--how exactly does Threepio get from "let the Wookiee win" to "you flea-bitten furball"? Casual racism against Wookiees really is out of control in the OT.

    Lando didn't know about the bounty on Han's head? He really has been out of the loop.

    *snicker* Lando calls Han and Leia "you people". o_O

    Han's "I know" is substituted for "...I'll be back." Heh. Actually, I take that back; he does say "I know"--to Chewie.

    Issue 44

    Vader goes straight to leaving a garrison--no taking Leia and Chewie with him. Also, he gives Lando a tiny throat squeeze on "altering the deal".

    Threepio give us a little extra exposition of Artoo's state of mind when they bump into each other--he's trying to get them to go back after Luke.

    "You'll find I'm full of surprises!" "And I, too!" :rolleyes:

    You know, it really is ridiculous that two robots wouldn't know the difference between a power socket and a computer terminal, Even my retired mother wouldn't try to plug a USB cable into the wall--which is essentially what's happening here.

    They don't show Luke's hand go--too graphic, I suppose? Stupid Comics Code...

    Oh, also, the *ahem* unhanded lightsaber is seen falling away...but didn't immediately shut off. Interesting.

    "Search your feelings, youngster, you know it to be true." God, this comic is kind of like a sneak peek into what a Lucas-penned ESB script would've sounded like.

    Luke, falling into the shaft: "NEVERRRRRRR!!" That, on the other hand, totally should've happened.

    Huh, the narration suggests there's actually a second there where Vader figures Luke is dead. Never even considered that before.

    Attenion, @Nick: no shot of the Rebel Fleet at the end. I guess people had to see the movie to see the movie to see the Redemption.

    And that brings us to the end of ESB, and back to original stories, now bun-free at last! Sadly, it also means more Infantino. Can't wait to see what Star Destroyers look like now.

    Issue 45

    DEATH PROBE!! [face_tee_hee]

    Back when I was first doing this, Card offered up a very helpful timeline of how he deemed all the issues of the Marvel series to actually fit together. It looks like things are gonna start getting a little nuts between here and RotJ, but I'm making a point of reading the series more or less in release order--meaning if something about the chronology seems especially weird, particularly with regard to SotE, I may comment on it with the understanding that someone else has probably already worked it out. :)

    Another X-Wing down for Luke...someone really needs to tally this.

    Luke maneuvering in zero-G by firing his blaster--not bad.

    And Artoo magnetizing to the ship's hull--he didn't do that in a film until TPM, correct?

    If "mechanized hold-tenders" aren't supposed to act hostile, then who designed them with scowly faces?

    Artoo just...jumped? No way, I call jets.

    Whoawhoawhoa, wait a second...Luke has his lightsaber. Not a new one, the same one. And the story is specifically set in the immediate wake of ESB. The hell?? I mean, I guess I can buy that they just assumed he'd make a new one, but no comment on it whatsoever? Or are they really under the impression he recovered the old one somehow?

    Huh, so the plan here is basically a less-impressive version of the Renown's suicide run in TCW.

    Well, Luke's awfully cocky all of a sudden for someone who just got his ass handed to him by vader. I'm leaning more and more toward this being later in the timeline.

    Using the Force to keep your own vitals at coma levels while up and active--interesting.

    In conclusion: it's kinda sad that the first idea they had after the magnificence of ESB was "souped-up probe droid".

    Issue 46

    Cover text: "A living nightmare stalks the universe" ...wait, like, the entire universe?

    After seeing the story credited to "Wally Lombego", a wook search revealed that J.M. Dematteis requested a pseudonym for this story after LFL made him change it. Interesting...

    Attention editors: hyperspace is not now, nor was it ever, hyphenated.

    Okay, someone explain to these people how atmospheres work.

    "Leathern"? Since when is that a word?

    Captain Plikk--nice to see a female Imperial leader, but it would be nice if someone had told her about the dress code.

    Psychic energy...oh, good lord. I don't like where this is going.

    "Channel all hyper-drive anti-matter rods directly into frontal laser banks". Increase the Flash Gordon noise and put more science stuff around!

    Yeeaaah, Lando just skipped the Falcon off a Star Destroyer. And I quote: "WHA-ZANG!"

    And again! The hell, do lasers not work in this dimension?

    Okay, number one: the three Star Destroyers use their hyperdrive power to enhance their lasers. Number two: now stranded there, they're under the impression that Lando, in the Falcon, could thus easily destroy all of them. Number three: Lando actually considers doing this. Is that about right?

    So the pseudonym thing, I've learned, was over Lando's reaction to Cody's professions of pacifism. Originally Lando as to be accepting of it (understandable given that he himself was neutral until very recently), but LFL insisted that he have a strong reaction against the idea of not fighting the Empire. I'm torn on the philosophy of it, given that the issue's not making a terribly eloquent argument, but I have to admit it worked out alright in the story itself--Cody wasn't portrayed as a complete fool, nor was Lando wrenched horribly out of character. Chewie, maybe a little.

    And speaking of, any ideas on that other Wookiee? Does Chewie have any long lost pre-ANH friends? His reaction would be a lot more reasonable if it's someone he actually knows.

    Issue 47

    Whatever danger the droids are in on the cover, it's apparently about seven times worse than an asteroid field.

    Briefly: when I saw that Carmine Infantino was once again the artist of this issue, I rolled my eyes and checked the wook to see how much more of him I'd have to deal with, and discovered two things; one, this is his fourth-to-last issue, and two, he just passed away a few months ago. Out of respect, I'll let my complaints about his art slide from here on. And to be honest, his Star Destroyers have gotten a lot better since ESB...blockade runners, not so much.

    Ha, there's an editor's note explaining what AT-AT means. Haven't seen that before.

    Threepio's exicted for some lubrication. Truly this was a more innocent time.

    New Force power: the ability to speak in giant red letters.

    Kligson's a Clone Wars vet. Could be interesting.

    I let this go at first, but now I'm convinced--Archie Goodwin doesn't get the distinction between "R2 unit" and "R2-D2 unit".

    Z-X3--first Tagge reference post-ESB...misspelled, though.

    Gonk with a laser cannon. Sold.

    Artoo and Threepio falling into a burning pit? Man, if only one of them had jets.

    I gotta say--a crazy robot-on-robot fight like this would be awesome to see on the big screen.

    UP NEXT!! The Third Law!! Princess Leia vs. Isaac Asimov?? Apparently!!
    Last edited by CooperTFN, Jul 8, 2013
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  20. Gorefiend Chosen One

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    Oct 23, 2004
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    Now that you mention it I really never spotted any, though the humans there are at least pretty diverse.

    Yeah, especially as they talk about it in Scoundrels, though maybe he means the Imperial bounty?

    Might just have a not standard set up.

    Actually I always figured that what he must be thinking, until he later feels him in the force.

    Yep, though back ground material hinted at that he could.

    The Xi Charrians and Colicoids seem to love such stuff. ;)

    My copy of the Oxford dictionary claims it is an archaic word, so apparently it has been a word for a long time. ;)

    She properly designed her own after taking command. The whole thing seems to be a voyage of the damned anyway.

    A lot of his clan was carried off by Slavers over the years, so maybe old acquaintance.

    Another wasted opportunity of the Clone Wars, already disappointing enough that they don't use that many clones, but instead have Droids, but then don't have them fight each other.
  21. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Jul 8, 1999
    star 6
    None at Echo Base, either--I have to admit, Empire is kind of the worst from a diversity standpoint. All it has going for it is Lando and a handful of bounty hunters--all of whom act as antagonists in one form or another. Jedi at least has Orrimaarko.
  22. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    Chewie? Jedi also has the various Sullustans, Ewoks, Ishi Tib (took me 12 times watching to spot them standing all the way to the side) and Mon Calamari. Though of course not even remotely as diverse as Jabbas palaces, because the Hutts consider all other beings as just about equal, meaning far beneath them. ;)
    Last edited by Gorefiend, Jul 10, 2013
  23. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1999
    star 6
    I wasn't even counting Jabba's palace--like Chalmun's, it's a scene designed specifically to include lots of random nonsense. I place far more value on aliens inserted into groups of humans. Would it have killed them to have a Rodian walking around Echo base?
    Last edited by CooperTFN, Jul 10, 2013
  24. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    Rodians properly don’t deal well with cold, but yes more Aliens at Yavin and Hoth could not have harmed.
  25. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1999
    star 6
    Issue 48

    The first appearance of Aargau, ladies and gentlemen. I love that there's a pronunciation guide. My kingdom for that to be a regular feature.

    This also looks to be the one and only issue by notable comics writer Larry Hama.

    Okay, Leia carrying an attaché case is a weird image.

    The three laws thing is peculiar, but frankly, I'm just happy to see someplace in the GFFA with actual customs checks.

    Oh no, Vader's here! And he's got Count Dracula and Ch'od with him!

    Oh, lord...Vader and Leia's cases are gonna get mixed up, aren't they?

    It's odd that Aargau would be so strict about offworlders carrying weapons but not give a **** about rampant non-blaster-related property destruction.

    Density-altering remote control? Sure, that's not insane, universe-changing technology at all.

    Not just Dracula...Butterfly Dracula!! [face_devil]

    So wait, he shapeshifted into a poisonous butterfly--poison and everything?

    That's two beings Leia's murdered now...but no blasters, so it's all good!

    "Low yield anti-personnel missiles"--that's the most realistic weaponry description I've seen yet.

    Cool to see Vader hand-deflect another blaster bolt.

    There sure are a lot of HRDs floating around these old comics. Actually, this story's placement in relation to Leia meeting Guri could be instructive.

    Threepio thinks of everything--he's got the recording on both VHS and Super 8!

    Well, despite this whole issue being only slightly less insane than the Cody Sunn-Childe issue, I do like seeing Leia outmatch (or at least evenly match) Vader as a strategist. Brian Wood wasn't the first, after all.

    Issue 49

    Paging Michael Reaves--your title has been stolen. And 32 years early, at that...sons of bitches.

    Man, the cockpit of this Y-Wing is bigger than the Falcon's.

    Holy crap, it's got wheels for landing gear! That, for once, is the awesome kind of ridiculous--I hope that means that somewhere, there's an airport-style runway full of Y-Wings.

    For the record: Luke still has his lightsaber. I'd hate for that one thing to force this whole bunch of issues into post-SotE...though even that wouldn't explain why it's ANH-style.

    The Empire still uses gold as a currency?

    So wait...he was almost made a Jedi...and his name is "Jedi"?

    The timeline for Jedidiah (sigh) is pretty nuts--for one, it suggests that the Order and the Empire exist contemporaneously at a certain point, and also that he was approached to join the Order while already more or less an adult. This one definitely needs some creative re-working.

    I'm generally liking Simonson's art a lot, but he draws hyperspace like they're flying into a fixed portal.

    Not only is this Y-Wing enormous, but its cockpit offers "civilized comforts". o_O

    Ha, Leia's blonde and Luke's dressed like a pirate. Denning must have read this once.

    Oh, I didn't know the "frosty demeanor conveyed by icicles on the word balloon" trick had been around this long. Neat.

    Happy to see another female Imperial. Now would a person of color be too much to ask?

    You know, Leia's not bad as a blonde. It's a shame Han is missing this.

    Lots of typos in this issue. [face_shame_on_you]

    Yes The Imperial wans to bang Luke! Bang the Imperial, Luke!!

    ...and then kill him. Don't bang the Imperial, Luke!

    Note for comic artists: balding = evil.

    Regent Zelor has been in charge for twenty years--for all the other timeline issues, that actually pretty much works.

    The Alliance wants Velmor because it's "the most influential planet in its solar system". Yeah, I'm just gonna pretend that says "sector".

    Leia's flirtations with Denid raises an interesting question--did Luke go all the way to RotJ without realizing how much further Han/Leia had progressed? Did no one tell him about the "I love you" moment? I can't remember if SotE did anything with this, but here it seems like his typical Post-ANH Leia-crush is wholly intact.

    Whoa, they have Spin the Bottle in the GFFA??

    Luke's lightsaber is red suddenly. What the heck, he's not supposed to have the damned thing anyway.

    That's one hell of a coffin--which just so happens to come standard on the mega-Y-Wing.

    All in all, this was a decent issue. People have brought up the mentally handicapped in the diversity thread every so often, and Jedi's story is fairly respectful of such things, especially for the time period.

    Issue 50

    The Crimson Forever--this is one of those issues whose title I've actually heard before. No clue what to expect though. I'm just happy to see Al Williamson back.

    So if one were only going by this series, it seems to suggest so far that the entirety of the gap between ESB and RotJ was Lando and company just trying to get to Tatooine. They do a valiant job of setting up road blocks, but it is pretty interesting to picture a GFFA where getting from one side of the galaxy to the other is like Odysseus traversing the Mediterranean.

    Man, never thought I'd see an actual blockade runner in this series again.

    Threepio: "Thank the Original Maker!" ...it's almost like he suddenly remembered Anakin rebuilt him and he's sore about it.

    Oh, hey, the buns are back. Didn't even notice at first.

    Crimson Forever--not unlike the plot of Death Troopers.

    Hm, this might be the first EU "bad feeling about this." Anyone know for sure? I assume it wouldn't have been notable before Empire came out.

    Once again, here we have the notion of a much smaller ship obliterating a Star Destroyer like it's no big deal.

    Wow, Luke's vision of surrendering to Vader is impressively close to RotJ. It's so rare that this series really deals with the larger story--most of what I've read since ESB could just as easily (hell, more easily) have happened before it.

    And right on time, Chewie's flashback does just that and takes us back to post-ANH.

    Han's into "swamp maidens". Go figure.

    The Red Nebula is outside the galaxy? Unknown Regions, maybe? Is it in the Atlas?

    Reference to Chewie being 200 years old--I'm wondering, where was that first established? The ANH novel?

    The Falcon is automatically pulled out of hyperspace by a nearby ship's distress beacon--that's new, but actually not a bad idea.

    Don't worry about the virus, Leia, we've got these handy spacesuits! What? Gloves? Nah, we don't need gloves.

    Oh, great, the entire ESB bounty hunter lineup sans-Fett is here. I'm sure that isn't a continuity issue.

    In conclusion, I actually liked this story a lot--it had fewer silly/contradictory moments than a regular issue, and at twice the length. Wasn't sure what to make of the "virus" for a while, but between the precedent for Force-related crystals and the fact that it's explained as radiation rather than a literal virus is enough that I can buy it. I wouldn't even mind the Crimson Forever plot bunny coming up again sometime.

    Issue 51

    Resurrection of Evil--another title I've heard before dspite not really knowing what the story is.

    Magnetic grapples; interesting idea. Not completely stupid.

    Rieekan's sure being a gloomy gus at this military briefing. "We're doomed, everybody. Now let's go to work!"

    Okay, do we really need editor's notes explaining when the Battle of Hoth happened? This is like the third time. The best part is, it keeps referring to the comic issues rather than just saying "The last movie, stupid. - Ed."

    I know you can't blame the comic for having a totally different version of gundarks when it's the later material's fault for contradicting it, but--they don't even have visible ears! That is literally the only thing known about gundarks at this point and they ignored it.

    So this planet has gundarks on it, therefore it couldn't possibly be a Rebel base? But Hoth was just fine?

    And you know, I didn't think anything of it at first, but all this post-Hoth base-scouting is interesting--what was the main base after ESB, once the fleet had regrouped? Did they even have one? Sullust was just a staging area, right?

    "Bad feeling" number two. They clearly caught on pretty quick.

    Interesting that the Empire would bother to have hidden bases. Not a bad idea.

    It's been hard to tell thus far, but no buts about it--that's definitely the ESB lightsaber Luke's using.

    Luke chops an AT-ST's leg off in one blow--come to think of it, he probably could've done that with the AT-AT in ESB, too. Maybe not that quickly, but certainly more easily than the whole grapple/grenade trick.

    Okay, at first Lando was heading to Tatooine per ESB, and now he's trying to find out "where Boba Fett took Han". Is there any reason to think they got to Tatooine already and Fett wasn't there yet? I really should be re-reading the SotE comic for this.

    Two different spellings of "Wookiee" in the span of three pages. Even once they've been given the correct spelling they can still scarcely help themselves.

    Whoawhoawhoa--"Why hasn't the Empire constructed a second battle station like the Death Star?" Guess it wasn't so crazy an idea at the time.

    Oh, the Tarkin...that's why I knew the title of this one.

    We need construction worker outfits! Leia, go act whorey--it's the only way!

    Somewhat new--Luke mind-tricks the Stormie not just into letting them pass, but into believing that they're actually on the list he's reading from.

    "...its ionic eye ready to spit death in a blink." Well, is it an eye or a mouth? Make up your minds.

    Okay, let's be real here--did this whole Tarkin project only go through as an excuse to draw Luke out? I can't believe they'd have been bothering with this and the DS2 at the same time unless one was just a ruse. Either way, I enjoy picturing fans sitting over this issue in 1981 debating the plausibility of the Empire building a second superweapon. [face_devil]

    Aww, the Imperial conspirators are holding hands!

    Issue 52

    My memory is iffy, but...is this the first two-page spread in the entire series? I feel like there might have been one before; sea monsters attacking the Falcon or something?

    Who told David Michelinie that superlasers were "ionic cannons", anyway? The term "ionic" must have sounded way more impressive thirty years ago.

    C-3PO--still thinking about lube. You can't make this stuff up.

    I want that hat Leia's wearing.

    Random blaster sound effect: "FRADATCH"

    Nice of General Biel to recap what's going on.

    Um, I don't think it's technically a "trench" if it's vertical. The word you're looking for is "hole".

    As dated as these comics are, I've got to give it to them--they certainly make Leia badass.

    Not a horrible attempt at Vader's life, I suppose, but did it really require like eight guys to plan it?

    Strangely, even though they have a nice, neat film precedent for Threepio to be using an inconspicuous, chapstick-sized comlink, they sill can't help but give him a big-ass walkie-talkie here.

    Mmm, slime yeast!

    "Holy jaf"?

    "This 'thermo-charge' is just two comlinks tied together! I hate when this happens to me." A meta joke! The stormtrooper actually made a meta joke!

    So Darth Vader, Lord of the Sith, is surprised by a wall of ice too suddenly to avoid crashing into it. Yet he does have the time to say the following before crashing: "Ice! Directly in my path! And I am too close, going to fast to avoid a collision. Well done, young Skywalker!"

    Aw, man, and firing our superlaser at a fleeing light freighter seemed like such a good idea!

    Oh, "reversing the polarity", is there anything you can't do?

    Issue 53

    Before and after pictures of Alderaan: really necessary?

    Hey, actual new information--it was night in Aldera when the Death Star arrived. That means it must have been on the far side of the planet from what we saw in ANH. She also mentions "mother" being there, but Breha was already dead--anything preventing Bail from having remarried?

    Huh, Leia remembers Tarkin as having brown hair. That actually kind of makes sense if you consider that they'd known each other for a while.

    Mines...don't see those very often.

    Oh, for god's sake, Leia's crash-landed in Eternia.

    "You're getting careless in your dotage, Havero. That last boast nearly cost you your head. And such a handsome head it is, too." "Though not quite as handsome as yours, eh, Delois?" Ahh, so this is where all the gay men in this galaxy have been hiding.

    As cheesy as this whole thing is, it really is nice to see that the humans and (presumably) natives on this planet have teamed up and it's not just noble humans vs. savage aliens for once. And they don't even speak Basic!

    This planet is not unlike Adumar, actually.

    Leia references the "Cherenkov effect", which is an actual thing--meaning that nuclear physicist Pavel Cherenkov officially has a GFFA doppelganger.

    "Weeks passed"...well, that's gonna be an issue.

    How nice of them to invite their pet alligator into the sex chamber.

    I'm enjoying how this story is told from Aron's point of view. It's a nice change of pace, and somehow makes Eternian Calian society seem a bit less absurd.

    ...yep. This place is totally Adumar.

    "Milady Alisande, I think simetimes that the wrong one of us wears the warlord's crown, and rules this land." Gee, if only women weren't silly creatures incapable of governance. Oh, well!

    You know, I'm generally not a fan of Chris Claremont's more modern work, but I have to admit--reading this story in the context of what most other writers were doing at that time, it really is a whole different level. If you try (desperately) to ignore the silly 80s trappings of Shiva IV, this story is actually not far off from what Brian Wood is doing with Leia as we speak.

    UP NEXT!! Return to Bespin! Something that looks like Jaynestown!! And a certain troublesome redhead...