Copyright Infringements?

Isn't the creation of stories such as this an infringement on George Lucas Copyrights to all the characters associated with star wars? I have been creating a story about a Duro who becomes a spacer. And i was just wondering if i was to ever get this published (or atleast attempt to) wouldnt i have to ask permisson from Lucasfilms?

 

If anyone tried to make a dollar off their fics, there's no doubt they'd quickly hear from the Flanneled One's lawyers.


However, as it is LucasFilm kindly ignores fanfiction and lets us play as often as we like in their sandbox.

 

The way I see it is, if whoever actually owns the copyright now actually decided to sue lil ol me (who is causing no trouble at all) all they'd get is a rusted out dodge diplomat and a bunch of star Wars stuff and some really bad publicity. They'd probably lose more from the publicity than what we are doing is losing them. So they don't bother.

 

Yeah . . . and unfortunately, I wouldn't even bother asking permission. LFL hires novel and comic book writers by invitation only. I've always sort of hoped they'd have a short-story contest for fans, and maybe take the best 20 stories and turn them into a book, but thus far, no luck. If you're looking for publication, you could try the "Serious About Writing" thread . . . they talk about publishing original fiction there.

Welcome to the boards, by the way.

 

Lucasfilm once did have a fanfic and art and model-making contest in the official Star Wars fan club way, way back when. It must have been in 1980 'cause I was ten. My story didn't win, BTW.... (And, yes, it was for kids only.) That was my very first official fanfic. You can blame all my fanfic since then on George. Good work, Lucas.

 

Copyrights for publication WOULD be an issue. There's no way ANY copyrights on the galaxy far, far away would ever be released to anyone outside of the Special Few who get to write officially for them.

However, just writing fanfiction for the pleasure of it can't really be stopped by Lucasfilm. Anyone who is at all related to the entertainment industry will know where I'm going with this (I'm a film major and also a working script supervisor on some independent films).

There's this thing that writers in Hollywood do to get some attention. It's called a "spec script." Directors and other people can do "spec commercials." Basicaly, a 'spec' is taking a product/character/plot/etc that is copyrighted under some other person or company and writing a script or doing a commercial or whatnot USING said copyrighted material.

So, say there's a new writer trying to break into sitcom writing. He might write a script for Scrubs. This episode that he's written will NEVER be aired or acknowledged at part of the Scrubs show. It can however be passed around to as many people as this writer wants. He's using it to sell himself, to prove that he can write in that genre.

This gets done ALL of the time with scripts and spec commercials. I actually just worked on a spec commercial for Levi's jeans. It'll never air but the commercial will go on the demo reel for all of the people involved and it'll help them all get jobs elsewhere.

Granted, fanfiction isn't people trying to get jobs but I would think that it's much less of an infringement on copyrights than someone using Star Wars to try and get a job on some sci-fi tv show. Heh, so I suppose if anyone is ever told to stop writing fanficton, just start calling them 'spec stories.' Who knows if that'd work or not but it'd be fun trying.

 

I only write fan fiction to practice writing as I want to publish some original stuff one day. Even if I was approached by George Lucas or whoever's in charge of the offical novels to write a story for them, I'd probably turn it down as I wouldn't want anyone messing up any OCs I created for the story, which tends to happen alot in the offical novels and once that happens you can't change it like you can with fan fiction.

If they ever tried to sue me all they'd get would be a load of novels, some Natural History books and a bunch of Star Wars figures.

 

There is much to be said for that one little line at the beginning of your fic (a disclaimer), stating "I only own the characters I make up and am not making any money off this, just doing it for fun".

~Abby~

 

However, just writing fanfiction for the pleasure of it can't really be stopped by Lucasfilm.

Actually, I attended a panel on copyright at a science fiction convention in Sept (Dragoncon). where professional writers talked about it and how they approached it. One author was told by her lawyer that if she DIDN'T pursue fan ficcers, she could lose her copyright to her own universe. Another author said that when she went on the internet and did a search of her universe, the fan fic stories came up first - and, unsurprisingly, she was not amused.

There are some professional authors that do not accept anyone playing in their universe (Anne Rice comes to mind). We are just lucky that Lucas is currently willing to look the other way.

I think you need to be very careful of copyright and never assume anything...

 

How can you lose copyright to your own story? I thought copyright was renewable for up to 52 years. We can write all we want to but we can't make a penny off it. It still belongs to Uncle George.

 

You can't lose your copyright until it expires, but a few writers have had legal headaches from fans who tried to sue them, and that's why some authors get all crabby about fanfic. Apparently some lawsuit-happy fan once got Marion Zimmer Bradley in trouble with her publisher, which then forbade her to publish her own book. Thus the age of fanfic paranoia was born.

This guy is truly hard-core (later in the same document he even asks people not to write stories in his universe and hide them under their beds):

I realize that there are many folks who truly like Mithgar, and they are caught up in that world, but this is the way I make my living, and I do not want anything written which might compromise my rights to my own intellectual properties?copyright, media rights, merchandise rights, audio rights, etc. And, yes, other authors have allowed fans to set stories in their universes, but such fanfic has caused any number of writers various problems: for example, Marion Zimmer Bradley had a problems caused by a writer writing in her Darkover universe, where Marion couldn't use a particular fan's idea because the writer of the fanfic wanted to share the copyright, hence jeopardizing Marion's own rights to her universe. Another example: Chelsea Quinn Yarbro has a character named St. Germaine, and a fan used that character without her permission in a fanzine story; Chelsea had to sue in order to protect her trademarked rights to that character, and the fan and fanzine had to print retractions in a number of issues of Publisher's Weekly. A final example: In my own case, a game company used Warrows as one of the races of folks in their game book; they didn't use Warrows as I had made them, but instead really bastardized them in character and in origin. They had to retract and change the name of that race of wee folk. But even had they used Warrows in the true Mithgarian sense, still they would have had to change, for they did so without my permission and without buying the rights to do so (even had they negotiated, I don't think they could have afforded me). Those are just three examples of the problems of using other folks' creations, a major problem with fanfic. Think on this as well: with any writer's creation, there is the original author's idea as to the nature and scope and makeup of his/her universe, and no one else can quite duplicate the look and feel. For example, Robert E. Howard's Conan stories are splendid and thundering adventures. Others have tried to write Conan stories, but no one has duplicated the magnificence of Howard; in fact, they pale by comparison. So my advise is this: Create your own universe. You'll be much happier with the outcome. And you won't step on the rights of others.

. . . also he clearly has no clue what fanfic about. And he appears to think his fans are dumb. (Other parts of the FAQ are worse.) And he doesn't know how to spell "advice."

 

Copyright is renewable up to a certain timeframe but you have to actively defend it against violators. There were several companies that lost copyright to their product names because of common usage. I believe that Kleenex was such a common name for disposable tissues that they lost the copyright (although it's still a tradename I think) but there are whole layers of copyright law. And it's in flux at the moment, especially because of the internet.

All I know is that the authors that I talked to about this were quite unhappy about the potential inability to have a say in how their universe could be rewritten by others - so they pursued it. Other authors welcome fan fiction and don't see a problem.

I'm sure Lucas is aware of it but lets it go for now. If he were to lose copyright because of his non-pursuit, then he would be less likely to allow it.

 

I only write fan fiction to practice writing as I want to publish some original stuff one day.

My view on fan fic exactly. Fan fic is a great pratice, but don't ever expect to get published because of it. I'm writing my own worlds for that.

There are several authors that don't allow fan fic, Anne Rice, Patricia Cornwell, Nora Roberts to name a few (if you really want to learn them all, go to fanfiction.net and try to post a story there- there's a list of authors that they don't accept for that reason). As to why, it's pretty much been said. SOme authors don't like others messing around with their universes, some are worried about copy-rights and some just have this thing against it, for some reason.

While I don't think you can be sued for writing fan fic, you can get in trouble if the author is against it and you post it on a public medium (like the internet). I am, however, not exactly sure the extent of what an author can do to you.

It's also important that each story has a disclaimer on it and that you disclaim everything you use. Someone I knew posted a Harry Potter fic inwhich she used several quotes from Buffy and she got in some trouble for that, because she did not properly disclaim them. Disclaiming is really our only defence as fan fic writers.

There are, however, some authors who like the idea of fan fic. I don't know Lucas' view, but JK Rowling has repeatedly said that she is touched by the fact that people like her world so much that they write their own stories about. However, she also stays away from it like a plague, for good reason. Like with the Marion Bardley problem, she has to be able to say 'I've never read any fan fic before' if something like that happened.

But for the most part we should be greatful that Lucas, as of yet, has said nothing about us writing fan fic.

And if I ever get anything published and people wrote fan fic about it, I think I'd be thrilled/amazed/embarrassed that people liked my stuff so much. Fan fic really is one of the highest forms of praise for an author, in my opinion.

 

I used to think of fanfic as "practice," but that was before I finally admitted to myself that I think writing original fiction is boring as hell. There's a performance element to writing fanfic that you don't get with writing original fiction. For one thing, it's at least as much about interpretation as it is about creation. There is a touch of the good actor in the good fanfic author--they have to put themselves in the heads of characters created by someone else, and yet give them enough of an original spark to make them seem "alive." They also need a good ear for speech patterns, accents, and voice inflections, which they need to somehow replicate in print. Finally, a fanfic author faces his or her "audience," and gets near-immediate feedback from them. When you write original fiction, you sit alone in a room, typing away, then you put the manuscript in an envelope and mail it to people you will never know anything about, and who will most likely send you back an unsigned form letter saying your work "does not meet our needs at this time."

Meh.

Profic authors get all the glory, but they can keep it, as far as I'm concerned.

dianethx: I think you're thinking of trademarks. If too may people use the word "Kleenex" as a generic word for "tissue," the Kleenex people will lose rights to their trademark, and then anybody could use it for free. Copyrights can't be eroded by excessive unauthorized use--if everyone in the U.S. made bootleg copies of "Star Wars" and went around passing them around to all their friends, it still wouldn't count as something that had passed into the public domain. George Lucas and his descendants would still own the rights to the film for the rest of his life, plus seventy years. (I believe that's the current time before copyrights expire.) The *name* "Star Wars" is trademarked, so you and I can't make knockoff lightsaber toys and market them as "Star Wars swords." GL *could* lose the exclusive rights to use the movie's name if he didn't defend it, but he can't lose the rights to the movie itself unless he gives them away. (Not much of a chance of that.)

 

Yes, I was thinking of trademarks but it is a similar situation. Lucas's copyright isn't just to his movies but to his universe - that includes lightsabers and Han Solo and "Star Wars". I remember a number of years ago when he got very upset that the government/media started using "Star Wars" to describe a weapons system. And there was a thing recently about some doctor using a laser scalpel and having it compared to a lightsaber. It is really about his invention of tons of things including the universe we all play in.

Right now he's very gracious to let us play there but he could turn around and do an Anne Rice thing. I, for one, am glad he doesn't....

 

Me too. He's probably the most tolerant copyright holder out there in terms of allowing fanfic. He doesn't like the NC-17 stuff or slash, but short of that he seems cool with the whole thing. He actually encourages fan films, which I think of as a good sign. Every now and then the Star Wars official site sends out "hey, what should we do next" questionaires, and the last one basically said, "Do you spend more time here, or on that Other Site? If you hang out on the Other Site, why?" I mentioned the fanfic issue, and suggested they try something like the release forms (or some equivalent) that Marion Zimmer Bradley and Mercedes Lackey used to use. I don't think they'll do it, but it was worth a shot.

You're right that a lawsuit against a fanfic author would probably revolve around trademark issues rather than copyright issues, BTW, since it's hard to prove copyright infringement unless a person is photocopying your book or downloading your movie off the internet onto a DVD. This is for the best, since "Star Wars" is probably a "derivative work" of "The Hidden Fortress," anyway.

 

Ah, this reminds me of an on and off again debate between the Godawful Fanfiction forum and Lee Goldberg (screenwriter, wrote for Diagnosis Murder and Seaquest).

Over on GAFF we vent our upset over badly written fanfic before we go leave polite concrit to the author (and still get flamed for being 'meanies'), and someone linked to Goldberg's blog where he expressed his understandable upset over some MPreg fics that had been written about Diagnosis Murder.

Lee himself posted over on the GAFF boards stating that all fanfic was stealing from the creators and anyone who wrote fanfic was wasting their time and essentially was a have no life loser. He even compared fanfic writing to downloading movies or MP3s illegally.

As the majority of members on GAFF do write fanfic be it for love of the respective genre, for fun or even to refine their writing skills before they venture into original fiction, they rebuttaled.

Lee ignored much of the positives mentioned about fanfic, that it does help an aspiring writer hone their skills, that it keeps the love for a genre going when a show is cancelled or between seasons, and that many fanfic authors have gone on to become professional writers as well as many professional writers do write fanfic for fun, and continued to act as if he spoke for all writers that fanfic is a blight. Then stopped replying and continued to talk of the evils of fanfic on his blog.

His main argument continuing to be that if we're not being paid for our writing, it has no merit and we are deserving of being prosecuted for your choice of theft/copyright violation...etc. He's even iffy about genres that are in public domain. No matter what, to him we are all parasites feeding off another's creativity unable to create our own.

Quite a few on his blog were eager to bring up copyright laws along with the infamous Crumb/Air Pirates lawsuit with Disney, but the truth still lies with fanfic has been around since at least the 1800s.

Fanfic has evolved from being written on paper with fountain pens to typewriters to now postings on the Internet, it will always be entwined with movies, TV and novels in a symbiosis that both thrive upon. Even if fanfic should be banned, it will still exist, even if it's just in the mind with the thought 'What if this happened instead of that?'.

 

This is my favorite quote on the subject:

Long ago, story-telling was a vital part of every village's life. But who came up with the original fairy tales, before Grimm and his brother collected them into book form and sold them? Why is Baba Yaga sometimes evil and sometimes the heroine of her folk tales--is it because different storytellers came up with variations on her character? Today, we seem to have handed the story-telling aspect of our social lives over to the professionals. Fan fiction is a way for the audience to take characters that have somehow become a part of the mass culture and put our own mark on them by telling our own stories about them.

--Zine-A, Warrior Publisher

This is my second-favorite quote:

The primary objective of copyright is not to reward the labor of authors, but to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts. To this end, copyright assures authors the right to their original expression, but encourages others to build freely upon the ideas and information conveyed by a work. This result is neither unfair nor unfortunate. It is the means by which copyright advances the progress of science and art.

--Justice Sandra Day O'Connor

Don't get me started on the state of intellectual property law in the U.S. . . . suffice to say that it is being rewritten largely to benefit large media conglomerates (who have the lobbying $$$ in Congress), and not to benefit either individual creators or the general public.

 

If anyone tried to make a dollar off their fics, there's no doubt they'd quickly hear from the Flanneled One's lawyers.

However, as it is LucasFilm kindly ignores fanfiction and lets us play as often as we like in their sandbox.

Well, to put it in a rather extreme form, the same is true for the FanFilms as well. And they even get prices !

I think there is something wrong, because the FanFiction area is so frowned upon and other areas not.

To push this line even further : The "official" novels could be interpreted as FanFiction, too. The authors are often true fans, the only thing that makes them different from us is that they got THE PERMISSION.
George Lucas even uses names for planets which Timothy Zahn invented ! (Coruscant and Kashyyyk.)

I always get the feeling as if we are treated as second-class, where the novel writers are called "Literature" and the fan film makers get noticed. I don't like that.



Another thing is, why the novels just don't have an TM (for Trade Mark) after all of the names ... ... considering how many names and terms are nowadays "owned" by a trade mark, it should sound like this : "Luke Skywalker TM raced in his Skyhopper TM to rescue Chewbacca TM, Han Solo TM and Leia TM from the onslaught by heavily armoured Jawas TM !"



Alrik.

Edit :

So, say there's a new writer trying to break into sitcom writing. He might write a script for Scrubs. This episode that he's written will NEVER be aired or acknowledged at part of the Scrubs show. It can however be passed around to as many people as this writer wants. He's using it to sell himself, to prove that he can write in that genre.

We had here a thread about piracy of ideas ... and someone actually told the sad story of someone who wrote such a script - I think it was about Babylon 5. The author got invioted, had to show how he thought it all, got fired, but the script was aired ! The the invitor having the credits ...

So this isn't easy, too : Authors of uch a script must alwwys fear that their work is being stolen - and they cannot do NOTHING, because the law isn't on their side.


That's why I'm actually careful with posting anything at all : It can easily be stolen by anyone, and you can do NOTHING because basically you even weren't allowed to publish your ideas (fan fiction, in this case). And even worse : Big companies simply have the money to hire high professional lawyers who are able to defend any righteous claims by "small authors" - until the money of these authors runs out. Money has the power, authors not.

 

I used to think of fanfic as "practice," but that was before I finally admitted to myself that I think writing original fiction is boring as hell.


Heh. That definitely can be true sometimes. And fan fic is great as 'pracitce', in my opinion, because you have to learn how to correctly characterize characters and make do with what's given to you. And once you've mastered fan fic, you won't have to worry about characterization or anything else like that being criticized in your original work, because you already have the feedback and experience of fan fiction to teach you how to get it right. And getting instant feedback is great...

Anyway, back to the copyrighting issue. If I were Lucas, I probably wouldn't be thrilled to see NC-17 and slash fics out there either, but it's nice that he doesn't do anything and is actually, for the most part, supportive of fan fic and his fans.

I also consider, for the most part, the EU 'fan fiction' in a way. That's also why I feel all right ignoring it for the most part... Yes, the authors do have permission from Lucas, but they are essentially, writing their own storylines and stuff. I think I heard it mentioned once that Lucas 'suggests' the topic to write about it, but the authors are responsible for fleshing it out or something. In any case, if that's true (and I could be mistake), what difference is there between that and writing a challenge fic? I mean besides the obvious...

Anyway, I don't think fan fic is necessarily a copyright infringement and I'm glad for that.

 

Every now and then the Star Wars official site sends out "hey, what should we do next" questionaires, and the last one basically said, "Do you spend more time here, or on that Other Site? If you hang out on the Other Site, why?"

I take it that "The Other Site" is referring to theforce.net.

To push this line even further : The "official" novels could be interpreted as FanFiction, too. The authors are often true fans, the only thing that makes them different from us is that they got THE PERMISSION.

That's really interesting. I never thought about that before, AlrikFassbauer, but it makes sense. The people who are writing the novels, are an extension of the Star Wars universe and so is fanfiction, only one is with permission from the man himself and the other, we do for fun.

~aeryn