Corellian Jedi, truer to the old ways?

I'm almost always pointing out how certain things concerning the Jedi order that we see today are based on the order during the prequel era. Like Jedi being trained from a very early age and not suppose to know their families. Or have apparent love lifes. Often it's pointed out that there are some exceptions to some of these, like Ki Adi Mundi. But these are things that are rather strictly a prequel thing.

Then I got to thinking on it after posting in the Obi-Wan/Owen thread. What I was thinking on was adding a edit to my post pointing out the fact that Corellian Jedi tended to be rogues when it came to the Jedi order. They were likely to know their families, perhaps even likely to love without being told it's against the rules and even start training at almost any age. But that got me to thinking. Maybe the Corellian Jedi weren't rogues in the order, but were staying truer to the older ways of the Jedi.

In the ToTJ era, the Jedi knew their families, were allowed to fall in love, and could begin training at any age. Several times we see that the Jedi knew their families. At least once we're shown that they could begin training at anytime in their life, and at least once their shown as falling in love. The Jedi didn't prohibit these things as they would in the Prequel era.

It would be easy to say the New Republic/Post Galatic Civil War and NJO eras demonstrates this. However, it would also be just as easy to to point out that this is because little was known about the era's that came before. Therefore, we're not looking at these eras.

But the fact that the Corellian Jedi of the Prequel Era seem to be more like the Jedi order of an older era would seem to suggest that they weren't really rogues, but more of a group of traditionalists. They refused to change to fit the change of the order, and so were branded as rogues. Yet if it's true, then it's possible that they may have hidden a much fuller history of the traditions of the Jedi order prior to the prequel era in the Corellian Sector. This hidden info may not have been discovered during the Purge or since, and may be waiting to be found.

 

Whoa. [face_shocked] I never thought about it that way. I thought the Corellian Jedi were rogues from what I read in I, Jedi.

Interesting observations.

 

See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. I, Jedi and some of the X-wing books made me think they were rogues too. But looking at it, maybe the rest of the order during the Prequel era were rogues and the Corellian Jedi were the ones upholding the traditions that had exsisted for thousands of years.

 

The Corellian Jedi aren't that much different when Adi-Gallia on the Jedi Council seems to be exactly as conservative as the rest of the Jedi if Siri is any indication.

The Dark Woman is married and has several children

(Rogue Planet)

Kidi-Adi-Mundi is married and has several children as well as you mentioned as well. My guess is that Jedi having relationships arn't forbidden nor is training beyond 6 months

(Kidi seemed about 4-9 and Eeth Koth was four when he was found)

My guess is that Anakin Skywalker's "dangerous destiny" and the fact that he wasn't raised in a loving home was more the cause of his being turned down from the Jedi. Despite Shmi's influence the man grew up in a world where life was cheep and judgement of good vs. evil was clear with the dead deserving to die....also arrogance and ambition of a powerful level.

Mixed with Yoda's advice against it I think they felt it shouldn't be done.

Also that the Jedi Knight who takes a family will be expected by the Jedi Code to give them an approximate amount of time equal to their needs which must be weighed against potentially THOUSANDS which will benefit from said time otherwise.

Obi Wan also visited his family as did Xanatos which leads me to believe that in Shadow Hunter the father of the young padawan was being a disruptive influence to the young man's life being there 24/7.

However Sharid Hett shows that Jedi often cultivate ties with their offspring if they are willing to give them the proper training, education, and be impartial towards them in matters of the Dark Side and power/responsibility.

In other words in the Prequel Era I don't think the Corellian Jedi were rogues...I think they were simply exaggerating the ties to the sector most Corellians had.

most likely since Corellia is a vastly important Core sector region and crimminal activity after Flirry Vorru's reign was pandamonium.

Not because of any rogue-attitudes.

 

I think you may be right. The Corellian Jedi are portrayed as rogues, and yet they never seem to be rogues to me. Perhaps they just embody what the other Jedi lost over time.

 

"The Dark Woman is married and has several children

(Rogue Planet)"

That wasn't the dark woman actually.

 

You give some good arguments Charlemange, but I must disagree. The Prequel Era Jedi are shown as fairly cold and uncareing, and it's exceptions to the rule when their allowed to have families. Visiting Xanatos's family would mean very little, even less if it's a family he had after leaving the Jedi Order. With Anakin, Qui-Gon tells Shmi on Tatooine that he would have been discovered an trained at an early age, the Council later uses his age as one reason they don't want to train him. And let's not forget what is mentioned in the studies of the Corellian Jedi in I, Jedi. It does say that they were rogues and mavericks in the order, doing their own thing.

More over, when you talk about distraction, look at what kind of distraction Nomi and Vima should have been to Andur Sunrider while he was training. Admitedly he had probably completed much of his early training by the time Vima was born, and probably before he married Nomi. However, we do see that training continues even after one becomes a Knight in ToTJ era. There is always more to learn. The more one learns, the more they discover what niche in the order is right for them. And the more knowledgeable they will be when they become Masters themselves.

Also, Nomi was a full grown woman, with a baby daughter when she began her training. According to what the Jedi of the Prequel era claim, she would be much to old to begin training, and Vima could be viewed as a distraction to her mother's training. But at this time the Jedi seem a lot more understanding and careing. They don't seek out little children with an aptitude for the Force and then seperate them from their family because the kids need to train. And they seem to realize even better the dangers one could pose at any age if their not trained.

As for Adi-Galia, I have seen something that says she's Corellian, but that her folks were ambassadors and that suggests that she didn't really grow up as a Corellian. Being taken away from the Corellian sector at a very early age for Jedi training would keep any child from growing up with a full understanding of being Corellian. It's more a state of mind than a point of lineage. Despite being taken in by what's his name (Shriek I believe), and raised by Dewlanna, Han still spent a good portion of his childhood in the Corellian Sector. He got an understanding of what it means to be Corellian first hand, not from someone else's perspective. Children taken from the sector to train as Jedi would not get this kind of perspective. They might get it if, after they completed their training, they returned and lived in the sector for a while. But you get the feeling that the Jedi are supposed to live at the temple except when on a mission. And with some exceptions.

 

Very good arguements.

I'll leave the rebuttal to someone else but family while distracting is still very powerful to Jedi.

Xanatos betrayed the Jedi and all of his oaths in order to be with his father and help him become a conquerer of a neighboring system.

When fled Qui Gon it was because Qui Gon murdered his father and he burned the man's signet ring into his face.

Xanatos's first act to try and bring Bruck over to the Dark Side was to appeal to his family ties.

Xanatos furthermore made his base on his father's hereditary Kingdom of Telos.

Obi Wan still remembered his brothers name as important to him.

In some ways family may be important to the Jedi as a reminder of what they must not have.

Kidi-Adi mundi likely was granted a dispensation from the jedi to marry because so many Cerean men took less than the proper amount of wives and thus women were left without husbands.

 

But it acts as a reminder of what's being forced on them at the same time. They pretty much have no choice. Then you look over at the Corellian Jedi of this period, those who are both of Corellian decent and live in the sector, and find that their having families. And probably that they go from master to master, in different parts of the sector, training. They always have one particular master over all others, that one being the one who initially trained them, the one under whose tutelage(spelling please) they achieved the rank of Knight under. The other Masters merely add to their training, helping them reach the rank of Master themselves.

Eventually, once a knight has had enough training, they then may begin training others.

 

It doesn't seem like much is being forced on them at all actually.

The Jedi way is harsh but it's a spiritually moving and rewarding way.

A Jedi can leave anytime he wants but while you might say that such training has predispositioned them to become Jedi.

Doesn't that ring true for all parentage systems?

Much like monks who adopted orphans the Jedi can be leaved at any time.

I doubt it's much brainwashing as the life is genuinely preferrable.

Shared Hett for instance DID leave the Jedi Order proper if not the Jedi way. He did so because of ties to his family that he felt the Jedi made him abandon.

Yet Hett chose to abandon the way.

I don't honestly see why the Jedi way should be controversial since it shows even more leniance than the Catholic Priesthood.

 

By the way I'll in no way argue against Nomi Sunrider who is without a doubt in mind the perfect Jedi and in some ways the perfect girl all round (however I have several perfect girl types and they're all vastly different soooo......)

 

Don't let Genghis hear you say that. But she's a perfect arguement because of who she was. Full grown adult female, mother, and a widow at that. And she does end up haveing to deal with one of the jerks who killed her husband and their boss after she begins her training. So by later standards, she's too old to begin training and has too many distractions to her training. (Her being female, however, doesn't matter as we know that Jedi are both male and female.) Yet she still becomes a Jedi and is considered to be one of the greatest of the era (despite what Genghis says).

 

True though some would argue Vima's little jaunt off to be trained by Ulic Quel Drommel was showing a potential difficulty of the Queen of all Jedi (IMHO) having a daughter.

If Ulic had been in the Dark Side he'd have ended up killing her (let alone if she hadn't gotten herself killed some other way) or worse.

And in the end Ulic did end up killed....though that's hardly her fault

 

But a counterpoint there is that Nomi had completed her training and had promised Vima she'd begin her training. And then she allowed herself to get wrapped up in other matters, some concerning politics even, and kept pushing back Vima's training, thusly breaking her promise to her daughter. Vima still had some memories of who Ulic had been, but most of her knowledge of him was from what she had been told. Yet she had faith in him, and had lost it in her mother. So Nomi's other "obligations", which as I said she kept taking after she'd already promised her daughter she'd train her and then kept putting her training off because it was suddenly of lesser importance than so many other things, was actually a distraction to Vima's training.

 

I, Jedi was writen BEFORE we even knew how the pre-clone war jedi carried out their lives. Stackpole wrote the Correlians as roques like Qui Gon because they didn't carry out their tasks in what Stackpole assumed to be the traditional manner. Now that Ep 1 has been released we see that Stackpole was not contridicted, but only because he was lucky on how Lucas wrote Ep 1. In the original Trilogy there were no hints about how a jedi carried out his/her life in the GFFA. For all anyone knew before Ep 1 a Jedi could of had as many spouses as they wanted with as many children as they pleased.

 

The problem with that statement, Vong_Killer, is that the Tales of the Jedi comic series predates I, Jedi, showing how the Jedi lived 4,000, even as far back as 5,000, years before the Battle of Yavin. Then we get I, Jedi, and then TPM and the Prequel era. But when you start looking at how Stackpole set up the Corellian Jedi in I, Jedi and at the Jedi in the ToTJ era, you see that there's numerous similarities between them when compared with the Prequel era Jedi.

 

Up.

 

Up.

 

What would be nice to know is how long the Jedi code used in TPM has been around. We know that long before TPM Jedi where trained at an older age and they did have families. Something in the past happened to change that and Made them adapt the code to the TPM one. I want that story. It makes sense that not all Jedi would follow the TPM code especially if it was a newer code.

 

It seems to be a newer interperation of the code, which is, in a sense, a newer code.

 

We may only be seeing portions of the overall "Code". We got new tidbits in TPM, and we're getting more in AotC.

 

I still say we're getting interpertations of the code, but not the code itself.

 

Up from the depths of the Lit forum file cabinet limbo. Probably will end up back there fairly soon.

 

Up, again.