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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Costume Contest: Lets Get It Right This Time

Discussion in 'Star Wars Celebrations' started by Boskone_Kenobi, Feb 24, 2004.

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  1. Boskone_Kenobi

    Boskone_Kenobi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2002
    A number of us were disappointed in the handling of the Costume Contest at CII. Everything including segregating us in the back corrifor so we couldnt see the show; then Daniels resorting to an aimless audience shouting match to determine the final winners, etc. If you were there you know what went wrong.
    I sent an official complaint to Wizards of the Coast which I posted here at that time. Now that GenCom is in charge, we can start from scratch and let them know NOW how we want things done. This contest is by the fans and for the fans, therefore we should be the first consideration in all aspects. I intend to send Gencom a copy of the letter I sent WOC, and detailing several suggestions for how this should go this time.

    If you have any suggestions, post them here and we will get a master list of how we want it done this time around.
     
  2. LukeSkiewalker

    LukeSkiewalker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2003
    Well I think an easy way to judge would be to have pictures of everyone's costume at a table and people just vote and a winner is annouced on stage. However this poses problems because it would require man hours to tally the votes. I wasn't at the contest last time but I have never had a good experience with the whole "Whomever gets the crowd to make the most noise wins." Especcially when that decision is made completly subjectively and not based on decibel reading equipment.

    Another possibilty would be to have all the contestants on stage to display their costumes and people vote using a ballot or something like that and there is a ceremony for the winner(s) the next day. This also has problems since all conventions have the issue of Time/space being used.

    I know these aren't the best suggestions but they sound better than the way it was ran last time.
     
  3. Boskone_Kenobi

    Boskone_Kenobi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2002
    It had judges last time. Wicket Warrick, A SW Costume designer, and someone else who I forget. The panel was definately all star (to a point), but none of them had any idea how to differentiate. They let a store bought Don Post Darth Maul mask BEAT several homemade masks. They had no basis for understanding the degree of difficulty involved in mask making, being as how the only expert was a costume designer, which is not the same thing as mask designer. That may have been what ticked me off the most, but consigning me to being a leper in the back hallway will be hard to beat.

    I am not impressed by all star judges, I for one am not infected with the hero worship that says these people are gods among men. I would vastly prefer to be judged by my peers. My recommendation to Gemcon will be that the judging panel be comprised of average joes with demonstrated costume ability. People who know how hard a clone emperor or wampa is to make, but didnt want to go head to head with him.
     
  4. LukeSkiewalker

    LukeSkiewalker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2003
    That would be a problem...

    Maybe it would work better if the judges were very highly respected FF/501st/RL members (or other costuming groups) along with expert costume/make-up artists.

    I agree that it would be better to be judged by peers and the only exception would be if I were entering say a Qui-Gon only contest, it would be kind of neat to have Mr. Liam be a judge. Otherwise I agree ACTORS don't always understand what goes into making a costume because they just put them on. It is interesting that people make a big ta-do about actors who had to spend "8 hours in a make-up chair" and conveintly forget that someone else had to spend 8 hours applying it.
     
  5. Capt-SithPaark

    Capt-SithPaark Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2004
    Wasn't Trisha Biggar (Costume designer for 'TPM, AOTC, Ep.3) One of the Judges at C2?

    - And Peter Diamond (Stunt Co-ordinator:'ANH', Stormtrooper-Tusken Raider) I think?

    You wouldn't want them back as judges if they were attending and wanted to be involved?
     
  6. JediTrilobite

    JediTrilobite Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 1999
    Costume people from the movie would be great to have judging.
     
  7. HothGirl

    HothGirl Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2002
    Though it might be neat to have actors from the movie judging, I think a lot of times they don't know a thing about the costume they wore. I'm sure there are exceptions but probably very few.

    Leeanna Walsman, who played Zam Wesell, was questioned by some of the Zammers from The Dented Helmet as we're trying to put together a screen accurate costume. She really didn't remember much about wearing the costume (save for some of the pieces that fell off during shooting). So eventhough the actors might be nice to have, I'm not sure they'd be able to accurately evaluate a costume.

    To have someone like Trisha Biggar, who has worked on the film costumes might be nice to have as a judge since she's worked with the costumes up close. It would also be nice to have someone who worked on the masks/latex applications as they too would have good insight.

    Just my two cents...
     
  8. Boskone_Kenobi

    Boskone_Kenobi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2002
    I would not want a stunt coordinator judging a costume contest, for obvious reasons.

    A costume designer MAYBE, but only if the panel had make-up artists as well.

    The panel last time had their chance and they screwed it up. They awarded a store bought mask over a homemade one. We need a panel who understands degree of difficulty, and only other costumers understand that.

    Having a panel of judges consisting of 501st/Legion members would be an excellent idea. Especially those with multiple costumes.

     
  9. Obi-Dawn Kenobi

    Obi-Dawn Kenobi Manager Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Hey all. :) I was one of those locked in the corridor last time along with Boskone.
    I was disappointed that we were unable to watch the contest. If I remember correctly, weren't we told that we would be able to watch it and then ended up being stuck in that hot hallway for what seemed like hours and hours?

    On the issue of judges, I agree that having experienced costumers would be a very positive thing. But, I also have to interject that I think Trisha Biggar is more than qualified to judge. She's overseen the creation of all the clothing from all three of the prequels, and not just the 'design aspect' of them (which is actually done by concept artists to begin with) but the actual technical construction of them too. She understands how to sew and the time required in making something from scratch.

    It would be nice to have various judges who are well versed in the different areas of costuming that SW generates. Some knowledge of mask making, prop building, movie make-up effects, pattern drafting, sewing, beading, embroidering, leather-working, etc. would all be nice qualities to have sitting at the judging table.

    Perhaps what is really needed is a better definition of categories and prizes. I would really like to see some technical awards handed out for craftmanship and quality. I would like the difficulty of a costume taken into consideration along with its accuracy to the real garment.
    I would also like some awards to be given out which do not reflect skit performance. Many of us can make an authentically accurate recreation of a costume but aren't performers.
    Personally, if C3's contest is going to be performance oriented again, I probably would not enter it. It's not that I don't value presentation or find the skits entertaining, it's just that I make costumes and would like it if my costume were judged and not my acting ability.

    Just my 2 cents. I might come up with some more. :)

    edit: I already thought of something else to add. I think there should be a stipulation that all costumes entered have been made and are not store bought.

     
  10. Uilmuteiz

    Uilmuteiz RSA Emeritus star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 4, 2000
    I so agree with your edit.

    Since at SW-C2 I was with the Jedi Talk guys, I missed the Costume Contest. And I think I was busy at another panel when it started or something.

    In any case I'd like to challenge you guys to come up with categories and some kind of qualities a costume should be judge upon.. it might come in useful in time.. who knows..

    Here's a beginning from T-trek based on Worldcons (I think)

    Novice:
    Any costumer who has never won an award for an original costume in a masquerade.

    Journeyman:
    Any costumer who has won at least one (but less than three awards in a masquerade or any costumer who wishes to enter in this division provided that they have never won (they may have entered) in a higher division.

    Artisan:
    Any costumer who has won three or more awards; or who wishes to enter this division, provided that they do not belong in a higher division in use in the competition.*

    * In regards to Worldcon Awards: they shall count in calculating standing: "Master" award winners shall compete only against each other, if numbers warrant it; otherwise they may enter Artisan, or enter out-of-competition.

    Of course these are based upon honesty from the costumers.
     
  11. Obi Anne

    Obi Anne Celebration Mistress of Ceremonies star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 1998
    Just playing devil's advocate here for a while; But if the judges were from the RL/501st/JA, wouldn't there talk about them being biased towards members of the groups? I'm not saying that they wold be biased, but I think that there would be talk about it by some.

    I also like having different categories for differently experienced costumers, as it is now I would never enter the competition, since I know that my costumes wouldn't stand a chance against some of the people around here. :)
     
  12. Uilmuteiz

    Uilmuteiz RSA Emeritus star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 4, 2000
    Therefore the categories Obi-Anne to give "journeyman" costumers like you and me a chance against more experienced costumers.

    As for the Judges, here are my taughts:
    - Trisha Biggars (of course)
    - Someone from the Conceptual Art Department (people who came up with the idea before Trisha)
    - Steve Sansweet (I mean come on.. fan relations.. yup part of the job :D)
    -one fan either part of the three groups, or none of them.

    Also, you have them fill out a form and give a rating on a particular costume. Which rating is there after entered in whatever compiling program, giving the ranks.

    mm I could program that [face_mischief]
     
  13. Schph_Gochi

    Schph_Gochi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2002
    I was in the Costume Contest at CII....it was the first time I did anything like that....and truth be known...my costume was good...but not nearly good enough to be in the contest.
    I know that I will NOT enter for CIII....I lost most all of Sunday with the stand around and wait thing....

    I am really torn on how it should be judged...
    I did it for fun....and have found out how serious costumers take their art...so maybe there should be "just for fun" and "serious" categories....
    I guess it depends on if there will be "production" numbers...or just a walk on...because it can get way time consuming....

     
  14. Boskone_Kenobi

    Boskone_Kenobi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2002
    Judges like Sansweet would not solve anything. Being a fan is not good enough. I want an informed fan. Sansweet has his own Vader suit, but he bought it. Does he understand the trials and devotion of someone who scours HomeDepots and vacuforms his own pieces at 2am? I would be skeptical.

    Get me the make-up artists from AOTC. The guys who put the Viceroys head together. THAT is experience.

    As for 501st/Legion rivalry... Dont worry. There is no rivalry as a sizable % of the members are in both groups. I happen to have an Xwing suit, but I didnt make it because I have an unfailing hatred of Trooper suits, I made it because I wanted an Xwing suit. I go to events with the local 501st people all the time and we get along as SW fans should.

    At C2 before the costume parade down the main hallway I was standing next to an imperial pilot whose airhose suddenly popped out. He was swarmed with helpers and good samaritans both good and evil rushing to offer him their superglue.

    Costumers are a fraternity. And we are proud. We do not want to win because the other guy loses. We want to win because we are the best and everyone knows it.

    I like the system of class levels. Put the Clone Emperor and Wampa at the top and the rest of us down below. Give them the battle of the Titans they deserve. One winner for all time to stop time and space itself and bring the Planet itself to its knees. The rest of us can fight it out as equals.

    But anywho, I vote for 501st/Legion judges with a token celebrity from the costume department.
     
  15. Capt-SithPaark

    Capt-SithPaark Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2004
    I recently sent an E-Mail to Jeanette Keblish (Director of Sales & Marketing) asking her if she or the group of people who will be organizing the events, activities for C3 ever read or follow any of the boards or forums having 2 do with the betterment of the next celebration or if they are exposed to the ideas the fans are coming up with? She replied that they do check them periodically -- Here's hoping they do take some of these suggestions and it doesn't hurt to let them know what we would like to C at C3 by directly E-Mailing them!
     
  16. ValedaKor

    ValedaKor Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2000
    Just as an FYI, Comic-Con runs their "Masquerade" magnificently. In 2002, their panel of judges included actors Virginia Hey from Farscape and Chase Masterson from Star Trek: Deep Space 9, industry professionals Diane Duncan (creator/producer of live shows for Disney, Universal, and Warner Brothers) and Joseph Kerezman (movie and TV costume and prop designer/manufacturer), and Jeanne Clason, who is the workmanship judge and a historical re-creation specialist. Jeanne is on the panel each year.

    The 2002 event had 60 costumes.

    Since Comic-Con seems to get it right every year, I'm hoping that CIII can tap into some of that expertise and come up with an event that is fair to the participants, and entertaining to the audience.

     
  17. Boskone_Kenobi

    Boskone_Kenobi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2002
    Does Gencon put together Comic Con?

    I am still completely unimpressed by celebrity judges, but as long as the producers of the show themselves know what they are doing, I might be satisfied.
     
  18. Krash

    Krash RSA Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 2000
    If you were there you know what went wrong.
    What was so wrong with the costume contest...other then you (just guessing) not being named the winner? It was a fun way to wrap up a very good weekend worth of events...and simply a chance to show off some very good costumes.

    Not like everyone wasn't pimping themselves for the cameras on the exhibit hall floor all weekend! ;)

    I think Trisha Biggar is more than qualified to judge
    Considering she's like the GL of costuming...I think her resume is good enough. Remember, this was supposed to be a fun event...not "Coruscant Idol" with Simon/Paula Abdul/and Trisha as judges :D
    [image=http://www.fox17.com/home/downloads/wallpaper/american_idol.jpg]

    if the judges were from the RL/501st/JA, wouldn't there talk about them being biased towards members of the groups?
    Exactly...now we've turned a fun event into High school homecoming king/queen popularity contest.

    Judges like Sansweet would not solve anything. Being a fan is not good enough. I want an informed fan
    You think Sansweet is not an informed SW fan? Oh...please try and "back-talk" your way outta this one :eek:
     
  19. Lady_Lucas

    Lady_Lucas Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2002
    For the CII costume contest we all came on stage together, my husband Qui-Gon Ludo was Han, my father-in-law and Ludo's best friend were officers and I was slave Leia. I really didn't care about the judging as much as the wait in the back, "under" the stage. The climate wasn't very nice and it seemed to take a loooooooooooonng time for the people to get everyone organized and on their way.

    I know as well as my family and friends(that are coming from France) are dressing up again but we probably won't participate in the costume contest if it is the same setup as CII.
     
  20. Boskone_Kenobi

    Boskone_Kenobi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2002
    <<<<<<<If you were there you know what went wrong.
    What was so wrong with the costume contest...other then you (just guessing) not being named the winner?
    >>>>>>>>>>>

    THat is a complete red herring and you know it. Perhaps you didnt take part in the costest, else you would have remembered:::
    1) Being locked in a dark hallway for over an hour before anything happened.
    2) Promised we could watch the show then not being able to
    3) Our own spouses being forbidden to take video of us on stage
    4) Anthony Daniels succumbing to snide political bias in what should have been a completely neutral event
    5) ANthony Daniels throwing all logical judging out the window and awarding 2nd and 3rd places with the most random and banal of all methods: the audience shouting match
    6) A store bought costume winning an award while several homemade costumes got nothing.

    Well what could POSSIBLY be wrong with all of that?

    <<<<<<<<
    It was a fun way to wrap up a very good weekend worth of events...and simply a chance to show off some very good costumes.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    We dont need a contest to show off costumes, thats what the hallway was for.


    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    if the judges were from the RL/501st/JA, wouldn't there talk about them being biased towards members of the groups?
    Exactly...now we've turned a fun event into High school homecoming king/queen popularity contest.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I am so glad that you just accused all 2000 members of both groups of being remorselessly shallow. These are costuming people. Is it so outrageous that they would award the best costume? CLone Emperor wins a lot of contests because he makes a lot of the best costumes, and that is fairly simple math. But if he shows up to C3 with a sheet over his head calling himself a Jedi Ghost, he would get what he deserved. There is no case for being prejudiced against the 501st/RL community, and every reason to trust them.


    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    Judges like Sansweet would not solve anything. Being a fan is not good enough. I want an informed fan
    You think Sansweet is not an informed SW fan? Oh...please try and "back-talk" your way outta this one >>>>>>>>>>

    On the contrary, I will shout it:
    SANSWEET IS NOT INFORMED ABOUT COSTUMES

    You may have a touch of hero worship concerning him, and may never have thought of what he really is.
    He is a collector, not a costumer. He has never built a costume, never worn one to my knowledge, and has never addressed the subject in any book of his that I know of. He does have his very own Vader suit...which he bought. He produced no part of it, he built no part of it, vacuformed not a single part of it. While Sansweet's disposable income is very impressive indeed, compared with a single fan who puts in the effort to build a Vader from the boots up from a single trip to Home Depot, Sansweet is a padawan.

    I am not impressed that Sansweet can buy his way into SW fandom considering other fans have made just as significant contributions with a fraction of the money and produced ORIGINAL SW Creations.

    See this::::
    [image=http://hometown.aol.com/strahd27/fanfilmscifi.gif]
    One fan, one costume, one lightsaber. A measely animated gif, yet completely unique to this world. An original creation.
    Totally unknown to Sansweet. For all his massive collection, he could not duplicate this. He buys his way out of problems, whereas costumers think their way out. He simply does not know what goes into costume making, its trials, its troubles, its devotion. He is a collector, old school fandom. Costumers are Creators. The empowerment of the ordinary fan.
    He has nothing to tell us, and in the words of Harrison Ford from a recent non-SW movie:
    "What good is praise from such people?"

    I want to be judged by my peers.

     
  21. Krash

    Krash RSA Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 2000
    Anthony Daniels succumbing to snide political bias in what should have been a completely neutral event
    Oh ...please explain that one?

    ANthony Daniels throwing all logical judging out the window and awarding 2nd and 3rd places with the most random and banal of all methods: the audience shouting match
    As a member of the audience, I think the whole point of the audience participation was to give everyone a chance to be a part of the event. Regardless of what your pride/ego may think...that event was simply for all of us to cheer each other's efforts in costuming; not elect you "king"

    you just accused all 2000 members of both groups of being remorselessly shallow
    Nobody is accusing anyone of anything wrong...except YOU. It's basic human nature that there would be some form of personal bias among a judges panel of "peers" (and admitting so is not a crime) Having a celebrity judge panel allows the "fan" to be taken out of the equation...and simply let us enjoy the show.

    I am not impressed that Sansweet can buy his way into SW fandom considering other fans have made just as significant contributions with a fraction of the money and produced ORIGINAL SW Creations.
    So because he has the financial resources to do what any of us can only dream of...he's less of a knowledgable fan? Dude, check your ego at the door!
     
  22. Uilmuteiz

    Uilmuteiz RSA Emeritus star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 4, 2000
    Guys, I'd like to keep my mod hammer where it is.. like deep in my wardrobe.. so please take it easy.

    Especially you Boskone, I'll shut it about the comments you made on the person of Stephen J. Sansweet, but watch it when it comes to my fellow FanForce forumers.

    Now let's bring this back on topic and actually give bright Ideas that might make this thing work better instead of bashing others Ideas.

    and NO I'm not just saying that because I'm the one who mentionned Steve Sansweet as a judge.

    Now go back to the topic.

    Thanks
     
  23. LukeSkiewalker

    LukeSkiewalker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2003
    As for the Judges, here are my taughts:
    - Trisha Biggars (of course)
    - Someone from the Conceptual Art Department (people who came up with the idea before Trisha)
    - Steve Sansweet (I mean come on.. fan relations.. yup part of the job )
    -one fan either part of the three groups, or none of them.


    I honestly like this one. As to there being issues about the 501st/RL/JA being biased...I not sure I understand why there would be issues. The only difference between me and someone else that has there own jedi costume is that I signed-up. I would venture to say that there are a lot of costumers that are not active on TF.N, FF, or the groups mentioned above. But would I judge them on that? No way. I may not have ventured outside the Jedi realm yet when it comes to costuming but I have a heck of a lot of respect for ANYONE who a) takes the time and ingenuity to make a costume and b) is brave enough to have it judged.

    I am not trying to start a fight by posting this. The only reason I mentioned having FF/501st/RL members (or other costuming groups) was simply because they are well known groups that people are familiar with. It had nothing to do with partialality. Hopefully this makes sense.
     
  24. Lady_Lucas

    Lady_Lucas Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Since I was in the costume contest I have to say these things were true:

    1) Being locked in a dark hallway for over an hour before anything happened.
    2) Promised we could watch the show then not being able to
    3) Our own spouses being forbidden to take video of us on stage


    Which costume were you wearing Boskone?
     
  25. Qui-Gon_Ludo

    Qui-Gon_Ludo Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2002
    Yeah, that contest was a huge disapointment! We got locked in that tiny corridor for hours sweating in our costumes, and they didn't even have the kindness to offer us some water! (who could forget that poor girl in the Bantha costume, she almost passed out!). Plus, all the categories got mixed up right before the show, and I still can't believe that Darth Maul and Padme won something!!! The Darth Maul was in sweat pants and gardening rubber boots!!! :eek: In the same group were a beautifull padme costume and a Qui-Gon that should easily have beaten them, but oh well....
    My major disappointment was to have wasted my last day at CII in that event, that wasn't fun at all for the participants :(
     
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