Costume Contest Official Complaint

Discussion in 'FanForce Conventions' started by Boskone_Kenobi, Jun 2, 2002.

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  1. Boskone_Kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 3
    I left Sunday afternoon with the Contest being my final experience of the Celebration, and a very lousy one at that. I was extremely disappointed in many aspects, but thought those feelings would smooth over in time.

    Well, they have gotten worse instead. The more I think about it, the madder I get. So after a month of festering, today I fired off a letter to Wizards of the Coast (if they ever read it) that told them where to stuff themselves.

    Now I am not the only one with lousy memories, I know from reading this board and talking to some of you via email that you have all the same complaints I had and more. So if you havent sent off a letter of complaint, now is the time. Strength in numbers, boycott the whole thing next time. Tell them what happened, why it shouldnt have, and what to do with themselves.

    A copy of the letter I sent is in the next post. Enjoy, and may I say I have had more fun talking with you after the fact than the entire 2 1/2 hours we spent in that dark cold boring hallway.
  2. Boskone_Kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 3
    Dear Sirs,

    I was present in Indianapolis, and I was a contestant in the costume contest, and I am afraid that the more I think about it, the more I dislike, fester, and regret the experience.

    The coordinator, Anne Brown, was given a list of friendly complaints about three weeks ago and has not responded for good or ill, and such is not appreciated. There is a embryonic movement beginning to engineer a boycott of the next contest at Celebration III, as my complaints were compounded by many other contestants with the same complaints, and we all feel slighted and used.

    To cut to the chase, the complaints:

    1) We did not appreciate being stuffed into a service hallway for hours, bored to tears, being unable to see or hear the contest going on behind a wall behind us. We had been told that we would be able to see the contest while waiting, but then we were unceremoniously funneled into a dark and cold hallway like so much cattle. I was in there so long that I HAD A NAP on the floor. (One time I tried to sneak a peek at what was going on, and was lead back to my "area" like a leper. Had my costume been more durable, your representative would have been spitting teeth.)
    No matter what kind of aura you were trying to generate, there is absolutely no excuse for us to be "hidden", and every reason for us to be in the general ballroom where we can watch the show with friends and wait our turn. Locking us away from the rest of the convention was rude, totalitarian, and a personal insult. There was nothing in the description of this event that said we were to sacrafice our own personal enjoyment to be in the show. Not a SINGLE wizards representative was able to give me one good reason for our segregation, this form of costume apartheid, treating us like second class citizens to be locked away from the guests, stars, and general public. WE ARE THE REASON FOR THE SHOW. Some minimal respect is expected, and was not given.
    If this was rule by Anthony Daniels, some kind of nonsense where he said: "The costumers have to be organized in a line or I am not doing it", then THAT is completely not worth it, I am telling you that right now.

    2) I dont care what copyright rules you think you know about, the no video camera rule was preposterous. These are OUR costumes, and we can get them on tape if we damn well please. If the no camera rule was by the request of Daniels, well then SCREW him, he isnt that important, and we are. This is OUR show, our effort, and our time. We have no record of the contest other than a cheapo polariod (well whoopee) and that is inexcusible. Daniels' ego is not worth it, it simply is not.

    ( I am proud to say that I beat your camera nazis on several other occasions, getting footage of many a forbidden event, and you deserve it. Act like a bully and you will be treated like one.)

    3) Even AFTER the initial judging , when the judges were tallying their votes, we STILL had to stay in the dark, cold, boring hallway so we could make a grand entrance towards the end. Can anyone say: "WHO CARES?" Can we please enjoy ANY part of this contest? Any part at all? This was universally not appreciated by any of the contestants, and since no video of the event exists, is was an extremely pointless wasted effort.

    Now there exist several other minor complaints. Daniels used an arbitrary audience cheering vote to determine the Best of Show. I have been in dozens of contests, and I will tell you that there is nothing so random, baseless, and error prone as an audience vote, compounded by Daniels getting so uptight (and off-topic) about our current President that he mis-chose the final two contestants. The loudest cheers were undeniably for the Wampa and the Bantha, yet Daniels made the vote between the Wampa and the Taun Taun. Several audience yells tried to make him aware of his error, but he ignored them. (If you needed any proof about the randomness of audience votes, this was it. We were promised that this was a PROFESSIONAL affair, obviously it was not.)

    There yo
  3. MiraxTHorn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2000
    star 4
    Dear Barry,

    I don't like being lumped into your letter. You stated that "We all feel slighted and used." I absolutely do not feel that way.

    I think you're blowing this out of proportion. I, for one, don't want anyone thinking that I would speak so disrespectfully of Mr Daniels. I dare say there are few others who would be with you on that point. He was kind enough to serve as host and read all our intros. After what must have been a rather exhausting weekend for him, I give him my thanks, not my scorn.

    You do have some legitimate complaints. I also wanted to watch everyone else's performances and enjoy the audience's reaction. I did not enjoy standing in a hallway for two hours. (Although, I did get to speak to a few people that I might not have been able to otherwise.) And, I agree there were some judging problems.

    However, that being said, if you expect any kind of response or actual change due to your letter, I think you will continue to be frustrated. The tone of your letter will undoubtedly TURN OFF anyone who might otherwise be willing to make real changes for the next event. The actual issues will be ignored and your animosity will become their focus. Name calling and invective rarely lead to results.

    As far as CIII goes, I WILL participate in the Costume Contest. I believe your threats of a boycott are silly in the extreme. There were plenty of people who applied but did not get into this year's Contest and will be more than happy to take your spot.

    That saddest thing is that after a month, you're still stewing over this. Are you unaware that there are people in the world who are dealing with REAL problems? I find complaining about the PRIVILEGE of celebrating a wonderful form of entertainment to be utterly innane!

    For those of you who agree with Barry, so be it. We are all entitled to our opinions. I do think that not everyone will appreciate your characterization and I hope they will also speak up.

    Regards,
    M.


  4. Nostradamus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2000
    star 4

    1.) The hallway was very hot, not cold. You are correct. It was very dark.

    2.) All of us contestants were there in plenty of time, (by like 1pm) yet we waited (standing) for over an hour before the event even started (around 2:30) We were asked to cut down our presentation time from the 3 minute maximum that I had coordinated and scripted our entry for over 3 months in advance just moments before we went on. We are good at improv, but not the kids.

    There were 100's of chairs on the other side of the wall, but we couldn't sit in them.

    I could have handled the standing and heat and boredom, but it was murder on the kids.

    3.) By the time the contest was wrapped up, so was Celebration II.

    I left INdy with more money than I came with, because any souvenirs that I had wanted to purchase were sold out by the time I could get into the shop or the shop was closed, as well as the rest of the Con, by the time I got there. I saw none of the exhibits.
    I also spent 12 hours doing volunteer time.

    Don't get me wrong--I had a most excellent time at CII, but there were some things that could definitely be improved upon.

  5. Panjin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2002
    star 1
    I have to agree with Boskone_Kenobe on one thing. If you have complaints about the Celebration, you should write a letter to Wizards and let them know how they can improve for Celebration III.

    But, Mirax has a very valid point. "Name calling and invective rarely lead to results." So true! Boskone's letter will be tossed into the circular file simply because his anger is the only message getting across.

    So definitely write Wizards, but do so iin a way that will be constructive.
  6. MrsStrahd Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 1
    I dont know if festering for a month is neccessarily a bad thing, as it means I gave myself plenty of time to cool off. If I am still mad then I am still mad, and something has to give. I can worry about petty stuff and fulfill real life obligations all at the same time. This last month was also when I made that Celebration FX video, HERE Plug plug,
    put up 4 pages of Celebration uploaded pics, got a color picture of my Plo Koon self and jedi baby in the local newspaper, seen CLONES 4 times, and mailed off 5 convention videos to relatives. So far be it for me to concentrate on the negative. It is merely that if no one ever tells Wizards these things, then we cannot expect it to get any better. They NEED squeaky wheels, else how are they to know?

    The idea of a boycott of next time was not my idea, I read it from someone else around here somewhere, and dont think it will happen, which is why I used the word "embryonic". I have gotten a letter back from Wizards which is surprisingly NOT a form letter. They are courteous and inquisitive and asked for more info. I told them that just voicing my complaints has made me feel better, more of a person and less like a number, and as long as the letter is read and discussed, I will be happy and not have any further complaint.

    I didnt think I was lumping EVERYONE in with my complaints, M, merely others who had a lousy time. I know others had a great time, (yourself I am sure), and I knowingly seperated the "good fans" from the "bad fans" as it were. My own time was not a complete wash, just a disappointment that should not have happened. A C+ experience where a B+ was as low as I previously thought it could get.

    So this is more or less over already. I have been acknowledged, which is all I was after. My creative juice now will start cooking for Halloween, where after a few years of Sci Fi Revenants, I think I will go a living dead route.



  7. MrsStrahd Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 1
    By the way Mirax, whenever I get feeling too down, that pic on your page of you in Leia mode bending toward that stuffed R2...

    as a male, I am not allowed to use the word "cute", but thats what it is.
  8. MiraxTHorn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2000
    star 4
    Sorry, Barry, you've got the wrong Mirax. The one to whom you refer is MiraxH. I'm MiraxTHorn. I was Padme in Picnic Dress #3 who sang in the Contest, not Lady Maul.

    I still maintain that complaining about entertainment and letting it bother you so is a waste of energy. Worse, using words like "naziism" and "apartheid" may be construed as insulting to anyone who has gone through such horrors. Our experience in the Contest is in no way equivalent to time spent in a concentration camp. Hyperbole can be a useful tool, but in this case, it weakens the argument.

    However, I am glad to hear you got a response from Wizards and feel better about things. We'll see if any changes are made.

    Regards,
    M.


  9. vadersfist Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2001
    star 2
    Christ, I'm quite confused. Didn't know there were two Mirax's here, and thought the first comments in this thread were MiraxH's (Lady Maul). And then Boskone_Kenobi and MrsStrahd seem to be speaking as if they are the same person. And MrsStrahd states that she, er...he is "a male"...?

    *sigh*
  10. Boskone_Kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 3
    The problem is: My wife: MRSSTRAHD, logs on and then does not log off, and then I usually forget to check who the computer is signed in as and jsut start typing away.

    SO::::

    Every time a post sounds like it is from me, it is, no matter what the user name is.

    Now, Mirax, how many of you are there anyway?

    But anywho, complaints are what make the world go around. You can be nice and pleasant and die at age 100 realizing that yuo have never lived a day in your life. My biggest opportunities in life have all come from complaining, excessive calling, and SEIZING my rights, not just waiting for everything to get better on its own.
    The world is ruled by Entropy: everything gets WORSE, not better, if left alone.

    I budget my time very efficiently so give myself plenty of time to complain daily, and as such I will die stress-free, ulcer-free, and hypertension-free. Do NOT bottle up emotions,scream your head off. And dont fall into political correct blather about what words to use. "Apartheid" is a great metaphor. Whether someone may or may not be insulted is immaterial. Life is not ruled by what ifs and maybes, it is ruled by your own strength of will to combat entropy. So pick up a weapon and attack.
  11. vadersfist Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2001
    star 2
    The problem is: My wife: MRSSTRAHD, logs on and then does not log off, and then I usually forget to check who the computer is signed in as and jsut start typing away.

    I figured that came into the equation. I use seperate cookies on my machine. I don't want anybody loggin on and pulling up my e-mail account!
  12. Mirax H TFN Costumes Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 1999
    star 3
    Here's the other Mirax. And I'm glad my pic makes you smile :) I do agree however, with Mirax T Horn about the letter written, as I do not share the same feelings and I have to agree, I don't think you would probably hear back from them due to the tone of it. However, sometimes, it just makes us feel better to really say the things we want to the person we want to say them to. I too wish we had been able to see the contest but we didn't, big deal. it's not the end of the world. I think that your comments about Anthony were unfair and more a result of your personal feelings towards him as an individual. I felt it an honor that he MC'd our little contest. He could have simply said no.

    Reguardless of my opinions or yours, I do hope you feel better voicing your concerns to Wizards and I do hope you get a response:)
  13. Karma Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2000
    star 3
    While I didn't address the costume contest in my letter to Wizards, I thought I'd let you know I got a response from them on Friday. A representative called and left a message for me in regards to the issues I wrote about (not being able to see various events due to standing in line for others, etc.). I am going to return her call this afternoon. I'll let you know what happens.
    -Karma
  14. queenseamstress TFN Costumes Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2002
    star 3
    Hi,
    I was also a contestant-and I have good and bad feelings about the event.
    I agree with us being treated unfairly-having to wait in the steaming hot hallway for so long in such crowded quarters-and not being able to sit down. Did they even notice the extravegant and heavy, hot things most of us were wearing? At one point, I thought for sure I was going to pass out.
    They could have at least gotten chairs, and cranked up the a/c. The poor bantha girl was drenched with sweat...I felt her pain.
    Even with the uncomfortable waiting conditions, my biggest complaint was with the judging in some of the categories. We were told in the information that most of the judging would be on costume, and only part on choreography/presentation/skit.
    While some of the presentations were great-it is a COSTUME contest-and I don't think a great act should place better than great handiwork seen in a lot of the costumes there. Not to tick anyone off, but I think the children's category winners should have been switched around a bit, just because of the sheer beauty and accuracy of certain costumes...and hours obviously put into them.
    I also beleive other category judging was also faulty-one of the placing contestants for taking a straight out of the package costume pattern, making it-and marketing it as a "general" character-there were no alterations, no figuring anything out-it was made using a pattern I myself own. I thought Trisha as a judge could have seen through that one...
    The other was the placing Maul/Amidala combo. Enough said.
    Like I said, if I would have known that 2/3 of the judging was on presentation and not he hours of work making it, then I could havbe easily thrown out some flash powder explosions and smoked the place up a bit...ha ha ha
    I also did not like that they made each entrant cut down time-especially since Nostradamus and MiraxHThorn had such great ones to change at the last minute.
    I did think Anthony did a good job-if he was frazzled-I can understand why. He had a busy weekend.
    I will be in the CIII contest hopefully...I hope it will be a better experience. I hope to see most of you there.
    QS
  15. Karma Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2000
    star 3
    I finally got back to the Wizards rep who called me about my letter that I'd sent in about C2. I didn't mention the costume contest in my letter because I knew other people would be attacking that issue, but I did mention that lack of merchadise availability, the lines (and missing out on seminars because of standing in line for another), lack of signage...etc.
    Anyway, the rep was very polite on the phone and told me that they are keeping all the letters they recieve about C2 in files for the next Celebration. Any valid complaints (not stuff like "my hotel room sucked" or "it was too far to to walk to get to the bathrooms") are kept in the appopriate file. So they do know about our concerns, for real.
    Also, about Jorg Sacul...that debacle was not a Wizards decision. That was a Lucas decision, to make it collectable and exclusive. I was also told that those vendors who abused the "2 per" limit are not invited to any more Wizards conventions and will not be invited to C3.

    The last thing I mentioned in my conversation was the costume contest. While I didn't write about it I did want to mention it to the rep. She said she'd recieved about 25 complaints about the costume contest. She said that the participants were kept backstage so that they wouldn't take attention away from those on stage. Which *does* make a bit of sense... if the Wampa was hanging out stage left, people would be looking at him and not at the person on stage at the time. But I did say to her that at least some chairs and air conditioning should have been furnished.

    -Karma
  16. Obi-Dawn Kenobi Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 4
    queenseamstress, I agree with everything you just said.
  17. Iowa_James Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    Yo!!! Plo Koon!!! Take that mask off and take a deep breath of fresh air. Inhale, exhale, inhale, exhale,?that?s it. Relax. You?re a Jedi, you?re supposed to be at peace. After reading what you wrote, I sense much anger in you. Anger leads to fear, fear leads to a faulty stage performance, a faulty stage performance leads to no award. Now, before you grab your lightsaber and attempt to strike me down, let me say congratulations on that little scuffle on Geonosis. It looked pretty hectic from in the theater, and you were one of the last men standing?..very proud of ya! Even though you and your Jedi brethren wield those sabers with much authority, I still have to stick to my guns and say ancient weapons are no match to a good blaster at your side. In the same respect, a well-made costume is no match for an entertaining performance filled with quick-wit and smooth flowing dialogue. Ya gotta ask yourself, what does the crowd want to see? Especially after seeing well-made costumes all day everyday for the 48 hours preceding the costume contest. Look at it this way, would people rather look at a brand new shiny Lexus just sitting in a showroom floor, or would they rather see an old beat up El Camino jump over a 75 foot shark infested pool. Entertainment rests with the performance, not the eye-candy. It?s the same reason the old Star Wars movies rule, and the new ones drool. Now, that panel of judges were professionals in the world of entertainment. They can smell a good performance like a fart in a car. They saw what we did, heard the audience roaring louder then a wookie, and voted us in as winners. Even over the Wampa, which was money. No offence, the costumes were great, YOUR costume was great, but winning costume contests ain?t like dustin? crops. We saw in the contest guidelines that contestants would be allowed to perform, and we took full advantage of that. Why would we want to bring a knife to a gun fight. We did what we thought we had to do in order to have a good chance at winning. In all my experiences with convention costume contests, I've learned that humor will beat out a good costume any day. We also took notice of the rule in the guidelines stating that no performance could be over 3 minutes. Because we took note of this we didn?t have to worry about cutting time off our skit last minute. Yeah, the hallway was dark and hot, and we couldn?t see S#*%. I had a Tauntaun on my shoulders the whole time. I thought they smelled bad on the outside! After the whole thing was over, ?I? smelled bad on the outside. But I think people should remember that being in a contest like this one, is a privilege, not a right. When I was sweating it out backstage, loosing ten pounds the hard way, I kept telling myself, ?The Show Must Go On!!!? I loved it, and I would do it again and again. Okay, you can put that mask back on.
    You know, sometimes I amaze even myself.
  18. queenseamstress TFN Costumes Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2002
    star 3
    Iowa_James,
    I agree you should have been one of the winners, because of the fact you had a great costume AND a great performance.
    However-I do not agree someone with a crappy costume should have won over the great ones, just because they can act.
    It was a COSTUME contest. If you did both aspects-great. The Darth Maul and Amidala costume for example-did you see them up close? Darth was in sweatpants! If you can't do more than that-then you shouldn't have placed.
    If I go out as a jedi, and can do backflips, etc.-I should not win if I am in my bathrobe.
    The contestants who had to cut their times down already had them to three minutes also-they cut them at the last minute even shorter than that-which was unfair.
    I personally talked to MiraxTHorn, and they cut her song down to pretty much a verse-when she wrote it to be under the three minute rule, which was very unfair.
    You deserved to be a winner there-but not everyone who placed did. Can you honestly say Amidala and Maul deserved their medals?
    It was even more of a shame CONSIDERING the judges professions.
    I do think it was an honor to be in it-but I do not think the complaints are invalid on this thread.

  19. MiraxTHorn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2000
    star 4
    Thank you, Iowa-James! I knew I wasn't the only sane voice in the universe. My biggest point which Barry all but ignored was that attending a convention like this is indeed a privilege, not a right. I refuse to complain about something so minor in the scheme of real problems that people less fortunate face every day. He chose to take those comments as directed at thimself personally and to label me as too PC. I guess that tells you something right there.

    BTW, your group was awesome the entire weekend! Congrats on being so clever and talented at putting together your costumes and personnas! And as nice as the Wampa was, my cheering was for you!

    For the record, originally there was a Talent Category which was what I entered. My song was 4 minutes long and I emailed Anne Brown to ask permission for the extra minute before sending in my application. She okayed it and approved me as part of the Contest. Apparently, there was not enough interest in that category and the time for the entire event was cut down, so she contacted me later to ask if I would be willing to change categories and cut my time down. It did involve editing my song down. A lot. But, thankfully, a friend was able to do that for me. I have no complaints about that entire situation. I chalk it up to the fluid nature of such an event. Anne was very nice about it. And, I'll do it all again for CIII.

    Regards,
    M.
  20. queenseamstress TFN Costumes Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2002
    star 3
    Mirax,
    sorry I was off by a minute with your situation-but I do remember you posting when they told you to cut your song dow right before CII and changed your category-you were wondering a bit at the time whether you should sing at all and just go with your costume alone.
    I do not take it personally the way things were judged, but I do remember that in the original contest information that it state we could perform, but the judges would be looking at our costume, unless we were in the performance category you were originally going to be in, and then your performance would be judged. That is where things kindof got screwed up with the merging of the two types of categories-you have the people there expecting to be judged on performance, and some for costume having to compete together at the last minute-I wonder if the judges knew for sure who was in it for what after the categories got changed.
    I was still happy to be in it-and hopefully will be in it again for CIII-I guess I will just have to hone my acting ability...ha ha ha!
    Yours and Obi-Dawn's picnic dresses were still great-and us fellow costumers did appreciate them and all of the time you took making them...not to mention that my husband thought you both gave Padme a run for her money...ha ha ha!
    I don't have a bad attitude about things, but I do think that there is room for improvement-as there always is.
    Have a good day everybody!
    QS
  21. MiraxTHorn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2000
    star 4
    Well said, QS! I can definitely accept a tempered view of things as you put them.

    Regards,
    M.
  22. Iowa_James Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    Here's an idea. I suggest if they do this type of thing in the future, to have a non-dress rehersal on either Friday or Saturday. It would only have to last about an hour. Of course the people in the contest would have to sacrifice an hour of their convention time, but that's one of the prices to pay for being in the contest. In that hour, they could go over the backstage procedures, instruct the contestants on how they will be shuffled around, and give people about 10 minutes to ask questions and check out the stage so they can have a concept of what's in store.
  23. queenseamstress TFN Costumes Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2002
    star 3
    That would be a really good idea-it would give everyone more of a professional appearance-as we would know how big the stage is exactly and know more where to walk. That would have helped the bantha girl when they were trying to figure out how far she should be walking from the edge of the stage at the last minute-and we all kindof had to guesstimate how long our walk across would take, and where our placement should be if we were performing...it would have alsohelped to have a small "x" taped on the center of the stage floor-it's hard to judge when you are walking out and trying to look at the audience and where you are at the same time.
    IJ-I am still laughing at your signature-now I can't get "American Girl" by Tom Petty out of my mind...
    "Are you about a size 14?...OOHHHH....gooood."
  24. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    I didn't see the costume contest, so I can't comment on the situation.

    However, calling anyone a Nazi isn't a good way to get things accomplished. Perhaps if you had been polite, they would have called you back. Also, you admitted to getting footage of events that you weren't supposed to video. Since the costume contest was on Sunday, you cheated them long before they cheated you. If they had stopped Rick McCallum's Spectacular the one time I was in there due to you or someone else trying to get bootleg footage, I know that there would have been quite a few unhappy people.

    Basically, from what I read, you deserved to be treated the way you were. The other costume contestants probably didn't, but you did. You risked being able to see special footage, simply because you wanted to have a bootleg copy. Not only did you risk it for yourself, you risked it for everyone else who was in attendance.
  25. Jedi_Riibu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 4
    I wasn't at C2 at all, so I really can't say anything concerning it ... but IMO a way to make the costume contest better overall would be to hold it Saturday night, when masquerades are traditionally held at conventions (I think that may have been when the concert was this year?). Then if they give out $$ for the store, people could use it, etc..

    Also, I was in costume contest/masquerade at Fanime this past spring, and they had a really nice set up with a green room that had a live video feed so we could watch what was going on on stage. We were stuck in a tiny hall as we waited to perform, but it was quite tolerable. Based on the complaints I've read, something like this would make a lot of sense for C3, which I will be at. :)
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