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Lit Could a gangster novel work in an SW setting?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Darth_Arapsis, Jul 9, 2013.

  1. Darth_Arapsis

    Darth_Arapsis Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 21, 2013
    I am willing to admit i only read a couple of gangster novels by Mario Puzo (not the Godfather trilogy), but i would be really curious how one would work in SW. I would love one about an undercover cop or just gon full dark side without the Force and let's have one about the rise and fall of a ganglord.

    Thoughts, opinions?
     
  2. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Well, I guess I know which option I should tackle next for Star Wars and Genre. Gotta stay topical!

    But, yeah, I think delving into genre in general has a lot of promise, and gangster fiction is a solid place to start. For a long time, I'd had a hankering for Tim Zahn to step away from Thrawn and Mara and do a "rise of Talon Karrde" novel that tracks his career under Car'das. I think the chaotic period where Car'das disappears and Karrde has to quickly, quietly, and efficiently take over Car'das's operation against heavy opposition from rival lieutenants is just begging to have a story set there.
     
    Danzo, COMPNOR, Zeta1127 and 7 others like this.
  3. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    I'd love an underworld novel, but one condition: I want the author to be willing to portray the underworld in all of its natural ugliness. I don't want a gilded underworld filled with Disney characters. While I enjoy the smuggler sections of Zahn's novels, I've never been able to shake the feeling that they just don't feel like criminals. You don't need to have your characters cursing up a storm to sell the fact that they're living on the fringe, but you do need to convey that most of these people are not nice guys, most of whom simply wouldn't be able to function in society. People like Talon Karrde should be the exception to the rule.

    So yes, I'd love to see The Godfather in space. Just not a PG version. Talon Karrde comes off as a fairly nice, if opportunistic guy in the Thrawn Trilogy, but I'd love to see some of the more cutthroat things he had to do in order to reach his position. I want to see the man under the facade.
     
    Barriss_Coffee likes this.
  4. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    So if Car'das = Lucas, Karrde = Disney? [face_hypnotized]
     
    Grey1 likes this.
  5. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    So Paradise Snare, Hutt Gambit and Rebel Dawn but with only the Hutt parts? :D
     
  6. Darth_Arapsis

    Darth_Arapsis Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 21, 2013
    Then you would have to deal with the fact hat Karrde is also in LOTF. I think if Han could be included in one that would be bump sales and would look nice on the cover. I would like to see Shrike gang Han to have smaller or bigger part. No idea about the protagonists but i assume tha approach bumped sales for the Judgement books and Death Troopers.
     
  7. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Even as someone who kind of hates the character, I think Dash Rendar could make a good protagonist in this kind of story, if he's played as what he is, if not what he was possibly intended to be: a loser with an overly generous opinion of himself. Him trying to weasel out of debts and fleeing from loan sharks could easily make an entertaining novel or short story.

    Despite my earlier post, I think I'd rather a novel like this take place from the point of view of the "little guys", ala Pulp Fiction, rather than the big crime bosses like the Hutts or Talon Karrde, though either one of these could make a powerful presence in an antagonistic role.
     
    jacktherack and AdmiralSteven like this.
  8. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Hmm… how about a Rise of Xizor novel by Luceno? :)
     
  9. Darth_Arapsis

    Darth_Arapsis Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 21, 2013
    Yeah but he would still be the smuggler with the heart of gold. I would like a move away from th good outlaw stuff if we are going to get a book about gangsters.
     
  10. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Hm, I suppose you could say Rendar has a heart of gold, but I've always seen him as a schmuck who puts self-preservation above all else (though I haven't read SOTE in awhile, and he could have been so annoying that I mentally blocked all the parts where he wasn't self-serving). Plus I'll profess an interest in reading about him getting his kneecaps broken while promising that he'll get them double the money, he just needs more time O:)
     
  11. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Pah, isn't everything already about gangsters and criminals in Star Wars?
     
    Adrian the Cool and TheRedBlade like this.
  12. Darth_Arapsis

    Darth_Arapsis Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 21, 2013
    Not as a protagonist. Or an imperial going undercover would also be interesting. SW is not real life where gunfights are rare so he could do stuff that Republic undercover cops could never do.
     
  13. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004

    Well since the biggest crock in the galaxy sits on the throne of the Emperor for 22+ years [face_whistling]
     
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  14. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    I don't remember Mon Mothma being Chief of State for quite that long.
     
  15. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    If it also involve exploring the falleens culture/s than I am in
     
  16. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I could see a Palpatine The Gangster novel:

    http://web.archive.org/web/20081120...ca.net/something_wicked_this_way_comes_i.html

    Not all of Palpatine's social connections were legitimate – or even legal. The Power of the Jedi Sourcebook mentions that Palpatine secretly backed a well-
    armed pirate band, and used it to destroy the Jedi Order's Oracle at Pelgrin, which had been used for nearly 3,000 years to predict (and thereby prevent
    or mitigate) galactic disasters. In The New Essential Guide to Characters, the scribe mentions his "under-the-table allies in every organization from the
    Techno Union to Freedom's Sons," and Cloak of Deception mentions that his friendship with a group of Bith delegates led to contacts within the terrorist
    group called the Nebula Front, active primarily along the Rimma Trade Route and well known for its hostility to the Trade Federation (TradeFed) and to
    the Republican Government.
     
  17. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2011

    This is what I was thinking. A gangster novel could work, and it seems that over the past few years authors have been attempting to branch into other genres anyways. Death Troopers (Have yet to read it so I can't say how effectively it was done) was marketed as the fear Star Wars horror novel, and Kenobi, which will be released in a few short weeks, is already being recognized as the first Star Wars western. I'd be interested to see Xizor's rise to power in Black Sun, any random Hutt gaining prestige and starting his own criminal empire, or even just a random smuggler.
     
  18. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004

    I have wanted a Count of Monte Cristo retelling in the SW setting for ages anyway. :D
     
  19. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2010
    One of things that's important for a 'gangster' style novel is a proper presence of The Law, even if there aren't major characters in such a work. Law enforcement is woefully underdeveloped in the Star Wars universe compared to their criminal counterparts. We know lots about the Hutts, about Black Sun, even about lesser groups like the Zann consortium, but very little about the non-military people who try to stop them.

    While the Star Wars setting is clearly set to have a sort of pre-modern law enforcement scheme, in the tradition of most Westerns, to really bring out gangsters you need someone on the other side. Any gangster style novel would be an excellent place to develop that theme in Star Wars.
     
    CT-867-5309 likes this.
  20. Reveen

    Reveen Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 2012
    Gangster involved stuff is kinda one the four pillars of pulp stories, so I imagine they should. If a crime story isn't compatible with Star Wars then something ain't right with the world.

    I'm getting really sick of right side of the law characters anyway, especially Jedi, so I'd like to see more of that kinda stuff.
     
  21. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    WEG was pretty nice on explaining such stuff (the Imperial Customs office and the Sector Rangers are pretty epic), but yeah the comics and novels are really short on showing them.
     
  22. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Soliloquist of SWTV star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    I think there's a lot of potential for gangster stories. Coruscant's underworld is one great setting for such stories, as are Hutt Space and possibly the Corporate Sector. We've seen a lot about organized crime through the Hutts, but we never really focus on that, or the truly seedy aspects of their operations. They certainly have competition outside their own race, which can easily lead to stories about crime wars.

    In fact yeah, I'm surprised we don't have anything called Crime Wars that tackles the subject. :p
     
  23. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Seeing Palpatine (or perhaps more likely in his Sidious guise) as a criminal kingpin or a godfather type figure would be rather great, particularly if played straight. I can see him delighting in such a role, just for kicks.

    Good to see the Domus Publica being used for its intended purpose -- to show how interconnected the source material actually is!
     
  24. COMPNOR

    COMPNOR Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    There are the Sector Rangers, but I don't think Disney wants to touch anything that has the word "ranger" in it right now.
     
  25. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2011

    Really considering how often smugglers and criminals in general are mentioned, i'm also surprised we haven't seen some type of criminal centric novel yet. I blame it on the constant need to focus on large scale galactic threats, instead of smaller planetary problems.