Could Anakin have beaten Mace

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by uwishuwereme, Nov 29, 2005.

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  1. Master_EdgeCrusher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2005
    star 3
    Yeah so true! But that was the final step to becoming the next dark Lord, and reaching yet another scar onthe bod!
  2. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

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    Apr 17, 2004
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    There's no official word on Dooku's saber level. He's probably in between 8 and 9 though, given what we know...
  3. Master_EdgeCrusher Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 21, 2005
    star 3
    where do I find what you have? asin your making of book etc....
  4. Rossa83 Jedi Master

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    Sep 8, 2005
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    What exactly makes him look stronger? He took out Dooku, impressive I admit. (However, you can argue that Dooku wasn't trying to kill him) He lost to OBW. Mace on the other hand we only see fighting once, and that is against Sideous - the most powerful alongside with Yoda. He beats Sideous in a clear saber duel - no force duel, well he wins that one too - but he also wins the saber duel. Where exactly does he come off as bad to you? If that is so you can only blame the choreographers. Lucas intended Mace to win that fight. He even says that Mace won that fight fair and square...

    Seeing that they are both supposedly level 9 (not such a big fan of these swordman levels though), Mace's experience should give him the extra edge!!
  5. mjerome3 Jedi Grand Master

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    May 11, 2000
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    Logic would seem to point towards that since Obi-Wan is removed only 10-13 years from his padawan status and Dooku had trained Jedi after Jedi and then joined the dark side which would make his Force power arsenal even more stronger. I believe you're correct about this one, Zam. If Yoda, Mace, Anakin, and Sidious are 9s, then Dooku must be also. But on the flipside of the debate, Kenobi did hang with Anakin for the entire duration of their contest until Anakin slipped up so Obi-Wan is either a very strong 8 or a very weak 9. He's either of those.
  6. -HD-YaebGinn Jedi Knight

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    Jan 31, 2005
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    Skill-wise, I'd say Obi is in a straight out duel, about an 8. A good 8, a solid 8, but an 8 none-the-less. But, he is also really good at using his enviroment and any other tools at his disposal to win. (dropping the metal block on bodyguards, using high ground, force-pushing grievous)

    So he can fairly compete with a 9 (as he did with Anakin). But he also had an edge with Anakin seeing as he taught him everything he knew (or most of it anyways) and knew his style.

    Mace would win in a straight out duel between him and Anakin. Some of this is based on what I have read and seen in cartoon, seeing as the movies dont picture Mace's dueling skills as well as they could have (it's the Anakin story, not the Mace Windu story). They make it look like all the other Jedi with Mace suck and Mace is just good. instead of all the other Jedi are good, Palps is awesome, and Mace is awesome.

    He would probably take a very unmerciful charge at Anakin and overwhelm him with brute strength and experience (similar to Jango, but a longer duel). Assuming Sidious is dead or not in the room at the moment.
  7. Master_EdgeCrusher Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 21, 2005
    star 3
    Dude. YOu need to watch the movie again. Yes they say that in the making that he is to win, but watch the entrappment. There is so much more to that. That is the star to the complete and utter anhilation of the Jedi!
  8. Rossa83 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2005
    star 4
    The swordman levels are quite ambigous I think. Therefore I'm rather sorry I brought them up. According to some here there is supposed to be an overwhelming difference between level 8 and 9 - yet OBW bested Anakin.

    The fact that Yoda trusted Mace to stay at Coruscant, possibly to face Sideous, really speaks for Mace I think. This is a clear indication of Mace's strength - and he proved himself worthy of the recognition. Bloody Anakin:(
  9. ZamWesell44 Force Ghost

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    Sep 13, 2003
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    I know as a jedi Mace is powerful, but i just do not see any way he would beat Anakin, Anakin lost to Kenobi because of his emotions in fighting his only friend, he would not have that fighting Mace at all. And there is nothing to say Mace is stronger than Dooku, quite the contrary, If DS had killed him, Anakin may not have turned, he would not have turned then. Dooku was almost as powerful as Yoda, and there is no way Mace could have beat Kenobi like Dooku did.
  10. Master_EdgeCrusher Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 21, 2005
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    I think being that they could not trust Anakin, and Mace was the only other source, that meant Mace fighting Sid.
  11. Rossa83 Jedi Master

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    Sep 8, 2005
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    Yoda controlled that fight with ease. Mace is regarded as almost as powerful as Yoda mind you. Nowhere do we hear that Anakin is that. In the OS it says that Mace was "A respected Jedi on par with the venerable Yoda"... on par means that he is nearly as good as Yoda...

    Anakin lost because of his emotions, but also because he wasn't that much better than OBW as he thought himself to be...
  12. Master_EdgeCrusher Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 21, 2005
    star 3
    Mace might be powerful. Pretty much all masters have a strength in something, but no even Mace couls sense Ani on his killing spree on Tatooine. Things like that don't show the true might of a master. Just a thought
  13. -HD-YaebGinn Jedi Knight

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    Jan 31, 2005
    star 3
    ? He hated Obi-Wan. He was not conflicted in the least about killing Obi, Obi was the only one who was conflicted in that fight. Anakin was ready and willing to kill Obi if he could have, but he couldn't. Maybe in a big open room with no way out, Anakin would win, maybe, but that's not how it turned out.

    Mace was at least as powerful as Yoda. (wise as master yoda, powerful as master windu) Yoda is no slouch, but Mace is the fighter of the two. Dooku beat Kenobi after a good duel in Ep2. In RotS, he got rid of Obi-Wan quickly because he had to get Anakin alone, and there is no factual basis that Dooku couldnt beat Anakin, seeing as there are several sources saying he was supposed to lose so that Sidious could have his way.

    Either way, Dooku was a master duelist and probably could beat all of the Jedi save for Mace Windu and Yoda.
  14. Master_EdgeCrusher Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 21, 2005
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    I thought Anoon Bondara was the Master in saber skills, yet Maul slayed him.
  15. ZamWesell44 Force Ghost

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    Sep 13, 2003
    star 4
    Yeah im sure Dooku meant to get his hands cut of that way. Anakin not conflicted about fighting Kenobi, you should read what it says in the novel, or listen to the commentary. "As powerful as master windu" he was saying Kenobi is his equal.
  16. Master_EdgeCrusher Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 21, 2005
    star 3
    ok now everything.....I am confused now......lol
  17. -HD-YaebGinn Jedi Knight

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    Jan 31, 2005
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    1. Anoon was a master in teaching, much like Cin Drallig.

    2. He knew he had to lose, he didn't know the exact details. Plus, hands can be replaced, what Sidious had invisioned in him was at least worth 2 hands that could be replaced.

    3. He said as wise as master yoda. Meaning Yoda is the wisest. and as powerful as master windu. Meaning Windu is the most powerful. Otherwise he would havesaid 'as wise and powerful as master Yoda'

    now, that is just bragging on obi-wan, he is not as good in those aspects as either of those people, but the comparisons stand in terms of rating those two Jedi.

    Mace beat Sidious hands down, Yoda got a draw at best.

  18. ZamWesell44 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2003
    star 4
    Dooku did not have to lose at all, he was told if he could beat him they would know Anakin is not strong enough. Kenobi Is as wise as Yoda and as strong as Mace. The advice Yoda gave to Anakinin ROTS was not excatly wise. And Sidious never intended to kill Mace, if he had Anakin would not have turned then.
  19. Darth_Manic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2005
    star 1
    From what i've seen of Mace's lightsaber skill,i'm sure Anakin would of beaten him.
  20. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    I just always thought of OBW's and Anakin's force duel, and Yoda's and Sideous' force duel as evidence as they were equally strong. In other words, it reflected that Yoda and Sideous was equals, OBW and Anakin was equals. It would also lend support to Yoda saying the dark side is not stronger.

    Lucas said that Anakin is more powerful, but Obi-Wan is more experienced. He also said that the dark side is stronger. Yoda was either wrong or he was lying because the creator contradicts him. The writer always knows more about true events in the story than the characters themselves.

    If Yoda, Mace, Anakin, and Sidious are 9s, then Dooku must be also.

    If Dooku was a level 9, I think Gillard would have mentioned his name along with the other four characters who are level 9 swordsmen. The fact that Dooku is Palpatine's apprentice means he is much less powerful and must be at a lower saber level.

    The swordman levels are quite ambigous I think. Therefore I'm rather sorry I brought them up. According to some here there is supposed to be an overwhelming difference between level 8 and 9 - yet OBW bested Anakin.

    Obi-Wan only won because Anakin got emotional and made mistakes.
  21. Obi-Wan-1000 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2005
    star 4











    I dissagree, Obi-wan won because he is more experianced.

    The duel was already over before the jump. The offical site sayes "He had the high ground, the tactical advantage. He urged Vader not to press on in a fight he could not win" Obi-wan Kenobi data bank
  22. -HD-YaebGinn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2005
    star 3
    No, that is not true at all. He beat Anakin very easily in AotC. If Anakin lost in RotS, he could get more training. His potential has never been in question, it just has to be cultivated. By you logic, Anakin would have been worthless to the Sith after AotC. I am not trying to say he had the whole duel planned or anything, but he was not trying to kill Anakin. That was never his goal. He was trying to win, but in such a way that Anakin came to no harm. Anakin was trying to win to save his life. He was fighting harder.

    What advice is that? Don't go to the dark side?

    He had intended to kill Mace. He didnt know Anakin would come at that exact moment. He also couldn't rely entirely on Anakin's rescue. If Anakin hadnt cut Mace's hand off, Sidious would have died. There was no way he could have planned all that out, yet not planned out what happened in the OT.

    If what Anakin said is exactly true, (about Obi-Wan being as wise and as powerful as Yoda and Mace) then Obi-Wan beat Anakin therefore Mace could, too. But not everything Anakin says is true, in that case he was merely exaggerating about Obi-Wans skills. What was factual information given in that statement was that Yoda is the wisest and Mace is the most powerful. If Yoda was more powerful, he would have said 'As wise and powerful as Master Yoda'

    I agree with what the guy before me posted, about how Obi-Wan won because of experience. That is true. In the long run, maybe Anakin would have won. But they both knew each other to a T, and Obi-Wan had more experience and used the enviroment to his advantage. I do not know how you draw the conclusion that Anakin just let his emotions get in the way and thus lost, unless you are referring to the end where he jumped at Obi-Wan due to arrogance. He did not hold anything back at Obu-Wan. If anyone was holding back, it was Obi-Wan. Watch the movie one more time, when Anakin leapt at Obi-Wan with a lightsaber, he wasn't just kidding. When he was choking the life out of him, he wasnt holding anything back.

  23. Rossa83 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2005
    star 4
    I can't see how all the quotes the characters themselves give us should be all true. In AOTC OBW says to Anakin that if he practiced his saber skills more, he could perhaps rival Master Yoda - here it is implied that Yoda is the strongest. Mace is supposedly almost as strong, or as strong as Yoda - not in force powers, but in saber skills. I doubt he is better. Yoda has the world of experience.

    As to Anakin beating Mace. I just can't see it. If you take the "wise as Master Yoda and strong as Master Windu" thing, then it is contradictory. Anakin says he has moved past OBW - even in AOTC. Something he clearly has not. Anakin sometimes doesn't know his elbow from his ass to put it bluntly;)

    Yoda is the top Jedi. Then comes Mace. After that I would argue OBW, some would say one of that TERRIBLE possee - can't see that myself. Anakin was up there with OBW though...
  24. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    "On Attack of the Clones, I had to give them levels," he (Nick Gillard) said, "Sidious is a level nine [out of ten]. On this film, Obi is eight - he's moved up - Anakin is a nine; Mace is a nine, Yoda is a nine. They're up there with Sidious"

    Page 133, The Making of ROTS.


    You can buy the Making of ROTS at your local bookstore or over the internet. Very very cool book.
  25. farrellg Force Ghost

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    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    I agree that Obi-Wan was victorious because he was more experienced. That's what Lucas himself said about the character. I was merely pointing out that Anakin's arrogance and lack of experience allowed Obi-Wan to defeat a more powerful opponent. If Anakin had as much control and experience as Obi-Wan did, he would be able to win since Lucas says that Anakin is more powerful.
    The posse weren't bad at all. The OS and novel confirm that they are three of the greatest swordsmen the Jedi Order ever produced. The Emperor is just that much faster.

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