Could Anakin have beaten Mace

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by uwishuwereme, Nov 29, 2005.

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  1. Obi-Wan-1000 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2005
    star 4



    No,Dooku was the only one holding back in that duel, the book sayes Anakin used the dark side in the begining of the duel Anakin was holding back the dark side Count dooku told Anakin that he sensed Anakins hate and anger so most of the duel the only thing he was holding back was the dark side. So if he did beat Mace he would only have done it using the dark side he may be the most powerful in the movie but he can not control the light side and the dark side is quick to learn.
  2. Mandalore_X Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2005
    star 3
    It says Anakin and Kenobi wern't using thier masterd styles.
  3. sabarte Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2005
    star 4
    Dooku does not do badly at all in the novelization. In the beginning, they're both holding back, and he seriously schools them. They switch to full on attack to take him down, at which point he is fighting for his life and is slightly wounded. But he adapts, and takes out Kenobi. Anakin, meanwhile, is getting stronger throughout the fight, but not in a controlled way. Dooku is still fighting for his life versus Anakin, but he adapts again and hits Anakin where he's weak - psychologically, which is where Kenobi earned his victory. Anakin 'loses his edge' then, and Dooku relaxes. Relaxes, while wounded, in a fight with Anakin Skywalker. If it had just been the three of them, Dooku would then have been able to pull out the win. But then Palpatine speaks (in the novelization), and tells Anakin to kill him, giving Anakin back his focus, and completely ruining Dooku's. Focused Anakin goes 'I-am-the-chosen-one-it-is-my-Destiny-to-destroy-the-Sith' on Dooku, and Dooku, betrayed, cannot stand up to that.

    Anakin is pretty easy to derail. Palpatine knows what buttons to push to keep him focused. Luke learned on the fly in ROTJ. If Palpatine had been on Mustafar in an advisory role, Anakin could have easily taken Kenobi, and if he kept his focus he could have taken Mace just as easily.
  4. joshuavance Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2002
    star 3
    Of course Anakin could beat Mace Windu.


    Notice Palpatine's hand when Anakin fires his lightsaber up in the corridor before they begin circling each other. It's shaking. Palpatine was terrified, he was sweating Anakin, he realized Anakin was 5 seconds away from fulfilling the prophecy. Notice how his hand is trembling and he immediately begins talking VERY fast.
  5. RamRed Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 4

    I doubt very much that Obi-Wan could ever beat Sidious. He was barely able to beat Anakin, who was emotionally out of control and not centered. If Anakin had kept his emotions under control, Obi-Wan would have been toast.
  6. Mandalore_X Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2005
    star 3
  7. Obi-Wan-1000 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2005
    star 4
    By episode 3 Anakin is the most powerful, Anakin is even more powerful then Palpatine. Nick Gillard said that himself. If Anakin can control his emotions then he can beat Mace because he is more powerful.
  8. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    By episode 3 Anakin is the most powerful, Anakin is even more powerful then Palpatine.

    According to the OS, Anakin is not more powerful than the Emperor. It claims the Emperor himself is the most powerful practicioner of the dark side. Gillard said that "Sidious' abilities are beyond anything we've experienced" and that you're a sucker if you think you can get the better of him. This makes it clear that even he regards the Emperor as the most powerful.

    Lucas referred to the Emperor as the "toughest" during his duel with Yoda, which means he must be stronger than Anakin. McDiarmid said that his character is "much more powerful" than Anakin. Master Replicas said that the Emperor and Yoda are the greatest wizards of the Force.

    Yoda sent Obi-Wan to fight Anakin, showing he considers the Emperor to be the stronger Sith lord. Obi-Wan is strong enough to beat Anakin because of his experience, but he can't even "compete" with the Emperor. The Emperor said "Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us" meaning he isn't as powerful yet.

    Anakin didn't kill the Jedi in the Temple as easily as Palpatine killed Mace's posse. In the hologram, Jedi could be seen blocking Anakin's strikes. The Jedi in the Temple are inferior to Mace's posse because the OS and novelisation claim that Mace gathered three of his finest swordsmen.

    I think Anakin is also less powerful than Mace. References to his power are more about potential than about what he has actually achieved. Anakin didn't have the experience and focus that Master Windu had. Mace wouldn't lose to an inferior opponent such as Obi-wan.
  9. Obi-Wan-1000 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2005
    star 4


    on Palpatine's databank at the offical site I can not find where it says Palpatine is the most powerful dark side practicioner.


    Nick Gillard also said that Anakin is unbeatble and he is the most dangerous fighter in the universe.



    Yoda sent Obi-wan to fight Anakin because Obi-wan is the only one who knows Anakin very well. Sending obi-wan to fight Anakin does not prove that Anakin is weaker then Palpatine.




    Maces's posse are not the most powerful



    George Lucas said that "if Anakin did not get all beat up he could have beat the Emperor"





  10. Darth_Froschler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2004
    star 2
    Correct me if im wrong, but haven't we solved this a long time ago?

    GL told us on numerous occasions that mace is the 2nd baddest jedi next to Yoda. The only reason i can think that im wrong is if GL stated otherwise.

    Please inform me otherwise if im wrong.

    Im just remembering back to the simple facts
    [face_peace]

  11. Darth Mischievous Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    I do agree that the setup would have been better were Anakin to have fought Mace directly and strike him down rather than sort of sucker-punch him when he wasn't paying attention.
  12. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    on Palpatine's databank at the offical site I can not find where it says Palpatine is the most powerful dark side practicioner.

    In Yoda's databank entry, it says that the Emperor and Yoda are the most powerful practicioners of the Force's dark and light sides.

    Gillard meant that Obi-Wan shouldn't be able to beat Anakin. He didn't mean the Emperor can't beat Anakin. Even Obi-Wan was able to beat Skywalker because of his superior experience.

    Mace's posse were the most powerful Jedi left in the Temple at the time Palpatine revealed himself, besides Mace and Anakin. Both the OS and the novel confirm this.

    Lucas meant that Anakin could have eventually beat the Emperor if he wasn't injured and his powers improved. Lucas has maintained that Anakin isn't as powerful as the Emperor during ROTS by calling the Emperor the "toughest", and with the dialouge of the Emperor and Yoda in the film.

    The Emperor said Luke could destroy him in ESB. Clearly Luke wasn't ready to beat the Emperor yet, but he could eventually become strong enough to do it. Its a similar situation with Anakin. He could destroy the Emperor, but his skills simply weren't developed enough to do it during ROTS.
  13. Mandalore_X Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2005
    star 3
    Where did he say this?
  14. Haynesworth Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2005
    If Anakin fought Mace, he would've beaten him, because Mace doesn't appear in the OT and Anakin does...

    But seriously, the only reason Obi-Wan beat Anakin was because if Anakin won there would be a major plot hole as to why Obi-Wan is still there in ANH and how Vader got into the suit with all his cyborg parts. I realize that it is still canon regardless of whether or not it's necessary to link plots, but my point is that if you are considering a straight up fight with no outside factors then you cannot say Anakin would lose because he lost to Obi-Wan. Anakin would have to beat Mace for the same reason he had to lose to Obi-Wan; in order for there to be continuity between the trilogies.

    So then let's assume that it isn't a fight that depends on the OT for the outcome. Then I think it's safe to say Anakin would beat Obi-Wan, because throughout the fight he is clearly on the offensive and beating Obi-Wan back. It was one stupid move that finished him. In this case, I think it could go either way against Mace. Anakin is very powerful, but he's also young and relatively inexperienced compared to Mace Windu, who is supposed to be second to only Yoda. I think if Anakin could control his anger and use it to fuel his strength, he would probably beat Mace most of the time.

    And since when is Nick Gillard the authority on who is the most powerful Jedi??
  15. Obi-Wan-1000 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2005
    star 4
    :confused: I heard that Nick Gillard said before that Anakin is unbeatble but I really do not know for sure, Nick Gillard made up the lightsaber rankings but I always thought that when he made up the lightsaber rankings I always thought that they were based on his own opinion on who was stronger then who but then I heard they were based on George Lucas's comments, so when I heard Nick Gillard said that Anakin is the most powerful I thought they were true but I really do not know for sure
    but I think if Anakin can control his emotions I think he could beat almost any jedi so he does have a chance to beat mace if he can control of his emotions.
  16. lightthunder1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2005
    star 1
    I agree with icestar63[face_peace]
  17. willij Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2005
    mace would've kicked his arse!
  18. MacetheCouncillor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2003
    star 3
    I agree. Darth Sidious is still more powerful than Anakin in Episode III. Because of Mustafar, it stays that way. Anakin is seemingly the fourth strongest character in RotS, behind Sidious, Yoda and Mace.
  19. OBIWAN-JR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2002
    star 6
    >>>>According to the OS, Anakin is not more powerful than the Emperor. It claims the Emperor himself is the most powerful practicioner of the dark side.

    And that right there is the reason that what you suggest is incorrect, Farrelg.

    Anakin was not supposed destroy Sidious by means of the dark side.
    Palpatine's being the most powerful dark side user has nothing to do with ability to destroy him.

    It was the Will of the Force that Anakin destroy the Sith.
    Therefore the path to his destiny would continue to be put before the Chosen One.

    That means that when the Will of the Force presented Anakin with the choice to fulfil his destiny, that it was possible for him to do so. So yes, at the moment when Anakin is given his choice, he has the wherewithall to be able to destroy Palpatine. It may have cost him his life (and more and more, I believe that he would have had to sacrifice himself to fulfil the Prophecy), but he would have been able to defeat Sidious.


    -JR :)
  20. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    So yes, at the moment when Anakin is given his choice, he has the wherewithall to be able to destroy Palpatine. It may have cost him his life (and more and more, I believe that he would have had to sacrifice himself to fulfil the Prophecy), but he would have been able to defeat Sidious.

    If Anakin has to sacrifice himself to kill Palpatine, then he isn't more powerful. Anakin is a dark side practicioner. If the OS says that the Emperor is the most powerful practicioner of the dark side, then he must be stronger than Anakin.

    This doesn't mean that is impossible for Anakin to kill the Emperor during ROTS. There are ways to kill someone who's stronger than you are. He could have stabbed Palpatine while he wasn't looking or helped Mace kill the Emperor. Vader manages to kill the Emperor in ROTJ, despite being less powerful.
  21. DT421 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 5
    If one were to sidestep the whole issue of destiny, then I suppose it would be possible for Mace to beat Anakin. I would also suppose that Anakin could beat Mace. This isn?t an ?on the fence? answer so much as it is dependent upon other factors. After all, Anakin whipped Dooku, who had whipped Obi, who then proceeded to defeat Anakin. It doesn?t seem logical, but logic has little to do with fighting.

    It also shows that Midi?s have little to do with who should win in a fight. Experience matters, as does one?s state of mind. Anakin tapped into his anger to defeat Dooku. Anakin was also angry in his fight with Obi, but Obi?s experience helped him to walk away from that fight. Again, if some are factoring in Midi?s in their reasoning, I believe that they have little to do with it.

    The only thing Midi?s did for Anakin, was to allow Qui-Gon to identify who Anakin was ? The Chosen One. This also allowed Qui-Gon to understand that Anakin had a destiny to bring Balance to the Force.

    So, as I said, if one where to sidestep the issue of destiny, I don?t think Anakin?s Midi?s would matter in a fight against a more experienced Mace.

    This is why I think it is more to do with destiny.

    Ironic that the once most potentially powerful Force user, who was reduced to being less powerful than the Emperor, still managed to defeat the Emperor and fulfill his destiny, because he finally understood what the greatest power in the GFFA really meant ? that being Compassion - Compassion for his son.
  22. Obi-Wan-1000 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2005
    star 4


    Anakin is a light side practicioner, Darth Vader is the dark side practicioner
  23. DarthRevan1944 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2005
    No way anakin beats mace.Heck he cant even beat obi-wan without getting his legs and arm sliced off.mace is most powerful jedi he beat the crap out of sidious and yoda felt the wrath of sidious. it would be no contest mace would beat anakin fast.
  24. Chosen_One1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2005
    star 4
    I agree. Darth Sidious is still more powerful than Anakin in Episode III. Because of Mustafar, it stays that way. Anakin is seemingly the fourth strongest character in RotS, behind Sidious, Yoda and Mace.

    Actually according to George Lucas, Anakin was as strong as Sidious before the suit. Here is an interview eccerpt:

    "You got it. And when he finds out Luke is his son, his first impulse is to figure out a way of getting him to join him to kill the Emperor. That's what Siths do! He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor -- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that." -George Lucas
  25. halfwits-r-us Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2005
    star 4

    that sure was true wasn't...well not really, see obi wan dismembering Anakin in one swipe. ANyways Mace got his hand chopped off by Anakin, So I considering that beating Mace. If Mace had the foresight to know Anakin was going to do that then I am sure they would have had it out, unfortunately Mace did not and he suffered for it.
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