could BSG ended any other way?

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Films and Television' started by Likewater, Apr 4, 2010.

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  1. Likewater Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 4
    Alot of people seem to have beef with the ending of BSG. Them giving up their technology on earth 150,000 years ago. Which we know is a damn rough place. Which probably has 3 or 4 species of humans running around.

    Well, I have to ask, could it really have ended any other way?

    think about it.

    Anything built in a Modern fasion wouldnt exists in 150,000 years have passed. Building, Steel, most types of plastic, Anything. You would have to chisle somthing into a rock face for it to last that long. Even if they kept their technology they could have still had a yet later fall that made the colonials abandon their city, and the generations forget and its reclaimed by nature.

    The ships, well again they have no Shipyards, no Oil rigs, No deep mining Equipment, they don't even have the population to support a 21st century++ level of civilization. Even if they did astroid mining, the constant enterence and exit of the atmosphere with minimal maintinance they would lose ships one after the other.

    Is there any way BSG could have ended when they found Earth II?
  2. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    Yes.

    A friend of mine had a theory: Everyone is a Cylon. The whole thing is an attempt by the Cylons to recreate humanity and the escape attempt in order to try to understand the humans. The ending should have then been the arrival at the designated "Earth", and Adama & crew walking onto the surface. Last shot is Adama looking around and shrugging, "I still don't get it."
    Roll end credits.

    I can't say if that would really have been a good ending in keeping with the series myself, because I couldn't be bothered to watch past episode 4. Boring has hell. Uninteresting characters. No reason to invest in any of them. Stupid behavior by the Cylon agents (why blow up the water supply? Why not... the engines? the fuel? Something that would cripple if not destroy the entire fleet... Something that couldn't be replaced at all, no matter what? Oh, because that would have been smart). Way to much emo and whining.
  3. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    I liked the ending, but it would've been better served by a gradual loss of technology rather then "cold turkey".

    The bitter truth is that the survivors didn't have most of the equipment or know-how to fully re-establish life as it was on Caprica anyway.

    If you just say you are closing the books on your history, the "devices" of your life will simply be used up and discarded as your life adapts to the new world.

    Gun runs out of ammo and you don't know how to make more...you get primitive.

    It doesn't have to be a willful "cold turkey" move...it's simply is the acceptance of not yearning for what is lost.

    Much like the Dark Ages...which didn't simply begin with Rome falling to the Goths and suddenly everyone is dumber.

    -----------------

    The real need for the finale was showing how the Capricans learned to coexist with the humans on earth. A friend of mine suggested that the Capricans could be the key to the extinction of Neanderthal...Caprican genetics helped make Homo Sapiens the dominant species.

    The way the finale makes it look, the earth humans are more like a science project then peers...it's hard to imagine that process to integration. They needed to give us some help...perhaps break the language barrier in the final scene...teaching...showing understanding or love...something that allows you assume the Capricans live on through the humans on earth, and don't die out because they can't adapt.
  4. Likewater Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 4
    Opinions on the show being for you is subjective. wether you like the series is up to an individual, and dosen't really have a bearing on this conversation.

    But Have you ever been on a ship? a sea ship. Engine rooms are never left unmonitored. There is always someone there, always a watch even when the damn things are in port. On a warship in a time of combat readiness that would go doubley so.

    Same with Highly volitile fuel. Anything that could explode, burn, melt down, or cause otherwise bad $#it to happen all on its own will always be watched. Especialy if they pretain to something vital. Like getting from point a to point b. Boomer and Cavil have limited resources and limited time to act with Limited windows of opertunity.

    And if you actually bothered to follow the series you would find out, Cavil is a sadist. He wants and is acting mostly out of spite. He wants humanity to die a slow agonizing death. And the Cylons are hardley unified in opinion, some don't care for the actions of the majority of their people.
  5. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    I respectfully disagree. See PM. I attempt to return this thread to it's original topic.
  6. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    There are several ways that it could have ended. I doubt everyone wanted to give up their technology, because giving up all of it was just dumb. They could have let the cylons go on their way, kept the ships that worked and landed them and stored them for later use if needed. They could have built a different society since they learned their lessons and could have moved on from there. The men and cylons could have achieved amazing things if they chosed to work together. It would have taken a while though, but on a new planet with untapped resources, they had plenty to work with.
  7. Jek_Windu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2003
    star 4
    They gave up their technology because there was basically no technology left. Notice that during the season, the discovery of a habitable planet was to be rewarded with the last tube of toothpaste in existence. Think about that: these people have so utterly lost their industrial capacity that they are incapable of producing simple hygiene products. How are they supposed to build a factory, or a city, or something as critical as a functioning hospital? They tried rebuilding their civilization directly once: the tent city of New Caprica wasn't entirely Baltar's incompetence; they simply didn't have the resources to build anything much better.

    The destruction of the colonies also annihilated the foundation of industrial production, foundations which take decades if not centuries to build. Think of this way: would a modern-day aircraft carrier and twenty planes always carry the components necessary to facilitate a full industrial complex? From scratch? Just on hand at all times? No, and the same is true of the Fleet. In terms of maintaining their standard of living, they were screwed- all Lee did was help them see it, in keeping with what his character usually did in the series.
  8. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    They had plenty of tech. They just didn't have products that they could use right away.
  9. Likewater Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 4
    No one is saying they did not have tech. They did not have any Tech that would last on a Planet with NO industrial base to work from.

    The have No Mass Metal Working Founderies, they have no Plastic/Petrolium refineries, No cement or concret plants.

    Even if they Had astroid mining equipment, i doubt they had Any stone Workers or Wood Crafters to build dwellings. They left alot of Stuff on New Caprica, as well as loosing the Cloud 9, Pegasus, and even in the End the Galactica was fuctionaly a wreck.

    Even if they held on to the Tech it wounldn't have changed anything. They would have lost 1 ship at a time. To rust, to age, especialy with no repair facilities or ship yards.

    The have nothing to Build a waist disposal system on the level of a modern city, and frankly no heavy equipment for Mass Farming, and eventualy their Alge would run out. And while earth has plenty of Alge they would still ware out their ships getting it.

    They have few Medicens, which living in a city will cause them to burn trough. They have Guns, but a Limited supply of Bullets. Even if they Salvaged galacticas works shop, you hafe to factor in Age, Corrosion (Now that your on Earth), and raw material. Same with Chemical and gas propelant.


    They aren't "colonials" with material to build a civilization on a new world. They are refugee's, with the bare minimum in a place that has no basis to support their previous life style.

    Lee came to the conclusion of their eventual fate. Not in 100 years but in most likely 30-50 years.
  10. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    I'm well aware of what has been said already bud. I have no problems with them starting over, but i'm just saying that they could have done things different if they wanted to.
  11. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    Sounds like they could have at least used what they had while they had it. Sure, your gun won't be good for much when it runs out of ammo, but so long as you still have bullets, you might as well keep using it. Likewise, if you have a lathe, you keep using it so long as it has power of some kind (even pedal power) and a sharp carving tool.
    Yes, it's going to wear out.

    Use it while you can, or just throw it away even though it has some limited lifespan left?

    Sounds like they threw it away.

    Or am I misinterpreting the argument?
  12. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    Gunpowder isn't all that hard to make. And they had at least one or two geniuses, and many resourceful folk to get to build a fairly advanced civilization on the primitive earth and to teach the native humans.
  13. Jek_Windu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2003
    star 4
    True. But what about the infrastructure needed to build guns or cannons? What about the infrastructure to do anything? True, many people who survived were quite intelligent- but if you put Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein and Mr. Rogers in a cave with three rocks and told them to build a nuclear bomb, it's just not going to happen.

    They only had 30,000 people by the end, most of whom had utterly useless skills in terms of building infrastructure (what good is a lawyer when you don't even have timber to start building a courthouse?). Even that minuscule population had to be spread out across the planet because they didn't have the capacity to produce enough food in one place. Once the Colonies were destroyed, the survivors' choices were set- either die or start completely over.
  14. Likewater Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 4
    What!? yes it is, Charcol, Sulfer, Potasium. In the right persentage mix, of cource some what "Refined" in a some what useable capacity. Not to mention the likely hood of you accidently blowing your hands off in an accident, Black Powder would probably screw up amy modern gun with that nasty Smoke it produces. Not to mention the problem of oiling and cleaning the guns, And smithing the guns.

    Afterall Black powder war replaced by smokeless power over a century ago

    And being smart dose not equate to being useful skill. Like Woodworking, Clay Working, Stone Working, Smelting, Hunting, especialy since 150,000 years ago was the age of Mega-Mammals.

    And not to mention Farming without Metal plows, Hoe's, ect. and Farming machinery or domestic animal would never support 30-41,000 human beings.

    I am saying Nothing on thoes ships would be useful to them...Besides the guns.

    And considering the Strength, and duribility the hull of a Ship needs to withstand. I sincerily doubt they could recycle thoes hulls and refasioned them into tools. Not Without large high tempreture founderies.

  15. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
  16. Likewater Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 4
    more when they decided that its show took place on a Prehistoric galaxy (for humans any way).

    If they landed on an earth between now 2000 yars ago, they would have at minimum, Metalworking, Aquaductes, Domestic animals, at maximum the Industrial revolution, Computer revolution, Low level space abilities.

  17. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    This is starting to remind me of an episode of Survivors (the Terry Nation programme, not the idiotic reality show).
    "Oh, I dare say I could eventually knock together a table."
    "Really? You could dig the ore, smelt the metal, forge it into a saw, cut down the tree, build a lathe and shaping tools, process wood pulp into paper, gather the chemicals for glue, make the sandpaper, sand the wood, mine the oil, refine it to make the varnish--"
    "I begin to see your point."
  18. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6

    My original hope for an ending was that Adama and the fleet are wiped out in one last, tragic, epic battle. Helo, Sharon and Hera escape on a Raptor. The series ends with them arriving in Eden, with a final scene showing Sharon still alive in the 20th century.

    Due to the writers strike, there was some question about whether or not the last ten episodes or so would be filmed. The 4.0 season ending was potentially the end of the series. What a way to leave it that would have been.
  19. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    The discussion here has reasserted the need the Capricans had to communicate and unite with the natives. The truth is, the Capricans would not adapt to life on earth as long as they had their old tech to shield them, and once it ran out, they would be clueless without the native knowledge of the earthlings.

    I'm reminded of the story of Plymouth Colony in 1620. Pilgrims come over, loaded down with the stocks and supplies of the Old World to set up in Massachusetts. They arrive, and the winter CRUSHES them. It is only by the aid of the local Native Americans do they learn what crops to raise and how.

    Perhaps the best possible defense for the "cast off the tech now", right now is probably the best condition they will ever be in to go without it...as time passes the tech will decline, and so will their food supply, their health, their security, etc...you get rid of immediately, you force yourselves to adapt while you are most capable of doing so. Plus, while you have a case of goodwill (apparently), you get rid of the tech all together, so you don't go to war over the declining remnant later.

    I guess it's not such a bad plan...I just don't buy for a second that everyone was "cool" with ejecting the tools of Caprican existence on the frontier of a unknown world.
  20. Jek_Windu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2003
    star 4
    There are two things that I think justify the rest of the Fleet going along with Lee's plan so easily. First, the civilians probably had it a lot worse than the military, meaning less usable technology remaining after four years running. Second, the military had the guns.
  21. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    Yeah. What an ending that would have been, Adama and Rosylin standing on a nuked-out hellhole of a planet looking utterly crushed.
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