Could Mace have prevented the downfall of Anakin?

This has been a topic of discussion for both me and my dad. We both think that mace had an oppurtunity to stop anakin from going down the dark path of destruction that he started going down. In the scene where he goes to Mace about the emperor getting to much power and mace says it is jedi matter why would he have not taken anaking with him? It just breeds more distrust between him and his friends. If he would of backed anakin up and let him present the charge instead of letting anakin brood i think it would of ended much sooner and quicker.

 

I don't see why Mace taking Anakin would prevent his fall. Palpatine would have used Padme as leverage and Anakin would still betray the Jedi because he was terrified to lose her. Of course, the fact that Anakin has resented Mace since he was 9 doesn't help.

 

Don't confuse the anger of a child with resentment. A Mace trained Anakin would have been sick, but Obi Wan did a fine job, except that Anakin still didn't manage to master his human emotions, until it was too late.

 

That's true and Anakin seemed to have respect for Mace in Episode 2.

 

I don't think Mace could have done anymore to prevent Anakin's fall than what those around him attempted. I agree that he held a respect for Mace, but his bond with Obi-Wan was far stronger and he couldn't bring Anakin back from his dark path.

 

The key to Palpatine with Anakin was Obi-wan. He tried to test Anakin's loyalty to Obi-wan on Grievious's flagship, but Anakin didn't bite and refused to discard his Master. Palpatine knew that Obi-wan had to be out of the picture and that is why he made sure that Anakin and Obi-wan were separated when he decided to "reveal" his true self to Anakin. Palpatine knew that Obi-wan was the only one who could influence Anakin to act with reason over passion (anger).
Whether Mace took Anakin with him or not made no difference; Obi-wan's absence was the difference.

 

yep..

 

A Mace-trained Anakin would have prepared him better and made him a far more even-keeled young Sith Lord. I can't see Kenobi beating him if mace taught him Vapaad. That kid would chanel his anger more efficiently in combat and combined with the power of the darkside at that point, wooo weee... he'd have been tough to beat.

A Mace trained Anakin; anyone but Qui Gon as his Master and he still turns to the darkside, would have been what Plagueis envisioned when he told Sidious about his successful midichlorian experiment.

He wouldn't have ended up in the suit, but he would have become the Sith version of Darth Maul on horse steroids.

 

I think it was too late in the piece at that point for Mace to change things much. In light of his relationship with Palpatine, taking Anakin would've put Mace at even greater risk, and he knew it.

 

If Mace trained Anakin and he turned to the Dark Side then I'd agree with that, but then Palps wouldn't be able to play on Anakin's Obi Wan weakness and his Padme weakness as well. Change one variable and everything changes except for the fact that the last half of the story was already written, so all of this is one big "what if".

 

"anyone but Qui Gon as his Master and he still turns to the darkside"

Covered.

 

Indeed! Jinn was the perfect tonic for that which ailed Anakin -- his all-consuming attachments!

 

Jinn couldn't prevent his fall either.

 

^^^

Not without nulling the entire OT -- hence his all-too-convenient 'death.'

 

Even without the OT he couldn't have.

 

I'm a little surprised that Mace didn't take the time to think it through (short of an OOU explanation anyway). I mean, this was the Sith Lord they'd been looking for for some nine years? Why is he revealing himself when he doesn't have to, and why to Anakin of all people? Those two questions alone should have made him reconsider his next move.

 

Lucas chose to develop the franchise around Anakin's beginnings. His methodology employed showing the audience an innocent Anakin embodied with unimaginable force powers.

How Lucas chose to reveal Anakin is telling.
- He is an honest, loving, talented boy
- He is the fatherless son of a slave, and he is a slave himself
- He offers to help, and risks his life helping complete strangers

But in TPMs galaxy, the force is the only currency that really matters. Jinn, a wise mentor to Kenobi, grasps the impact of the mysterious commodity which Anakin possesses.
- Jinn senses Anakin's force talent
- Jinn knows the boy is a candidate for the prophesied Chosen One
- Jinn senses that Anakin's discovery was not by chance, not a mistake, but by destiny

So a crossroads is reached when someone different from the traditional Jedi padawan candidate faces the vaunted Jedi council. Instead of witnessing an inherent evil resident in Anakin, we see a Jedi council blinded by a millennium of arrogance and complacency as the boy who risked his life (unselfishly) for Padme, Jinn and the others. The venerable masters on the council are unable and unwilling to see that the appearance of a Sith AND a candidate for the Chosen One on the same planet is more than mere coincidence, it is more than a fulfilling of a prophesy. It is the fruition of their collective destiny. It is a revelation that only the radical Jinn experienced, and thus one they cannot, will not affirm.

Jinn abided by the council's decision, knowing that formal training would have to wait. But he somehow believed, knew Anakin's training would happen. And so it did. However, had Jinn lived even into Anakin's early teen years, he could have sensed his apprehension over his mother, his tendency to take the galaxy upon his own shoulders, and mentored him toward a more socially acceptable approach to various challenging events. Jinn also may have sensed the dark side around Palpatine and how Anakin was attracted to it like a moth to the flame, thus diverting Anakin from the Chancellor's company while nurturing and expanding the young jedi's positive, or light side force abilities.

So without Jinn, and in light of the failure of the Jedi (Yoda, Windu and Kenobi included), the only way to save Anakin was to turn his possessiveness into a positive quality. This was accomplished via Luke, his son through the beloved Padme, whom Kenobi and Yoda had marginally trained in the ways of the force. But even with limited training, Luke won over his father with his unconditional love, his fearlessness, and his noble (if not immature) Jedi values. Luke showed Anakin the person he 'should' have, could have been -- what a Jedi truly is -- unselfish, unflinching and possessive only for all the right reasons.

The ROTS novel shows that during his duel with Palpatine, Windu realized that Anakin was the shatter point for his battle with the Sith Lord. Windu was not able to sense which side Anakin would choose. He failed to do so because, unlike Palpatine, Windu never completely understood Anakin. Windu expected, wanted another cookie cutter Jedi who would think and act like him -- an emotional robot without wants, cares or needs. Windu could not deal with the complexity of Skywalker. He was the oil to Anakin's water.

In fact, if there is one person most responsible for Anakin's fall not named Palpatine, it is Windu. He failed Anakin. He failed the Jedi. He failed the Senate. He failed the entire galaxy!

 

Where would you rank Anakin in the order of people not named Palpatine who were responsible for Anakin's fall?

 

I don't agree with this. The one failing of Jin was his stuck "in the moment" mind frame. Dont' get me wrong, most other jedi were at the far end of the other spectrum, but Jin was "too" in the moment. He didn't really think about the consequences of his actions. Jin was not really the middle ground many people think he was. I like the character, but I just don't see him making that much of a difference. Although, Jin's view might have kept him from having nightmares about the future, but I'm not so sure about that.

 

He probably could have. it was really sad for me when Anakin says he can't join the Sith because the Jedi are his friends and Palpatine asks him, WHAT friends. And Anakin can't answer, because besides Obi-wan, no one likes Anakin.

 

The Jedi's refusal to train him had nothing to do with complacency. They simply saw the danger in training Anakin and didn't feel that it was worth the risk. Some of the Jedi displayed it there, but those were the same Jedi who ended up favoring training Anakin after Qui-Gon's death. Qui-Gon also never seems to be aware of the danger in training Anakin. He and the Council both fail to see the full picture in TPM.

There's nothing to suggest that Jinn sensed the Dark Side around the Chancellor. He was as ignorant of the then Senator's true nature as the rest of the Jedi were.

I agree with everything you say about Luke except possessiveness. His initial inability to let go almost dooms him like it did his father. You're right that he does show Anakin what he should be, but that is someone who has overcome attachment and is guided solely by compassion rather than their possessive feelings for others(though he does feel them, he doesn't let it control him.)

 

QFT. Whether Anakin saw Palpataine's true power or not, he still had Anakin's fears and attatchments to play up on which is what turned him in the end. Anakin would've walked threw seeing the dead bodies of the others masters and would put 2 and 2 together. Anakin knew Palps was a Sith Lord, he knew he wasn't completely helpless and innocent, and although Mace was right to just want to destroy Sidious then and there, Anakin was never rational when it came to his attatchments.

and Starwalker raises another good point, Anakin and Mace never saw eye to eye dating back to TPM. Mace would put him in his place, and by the time of AOTC Anakin saw himself as perfect and therefore thought a good portion of it was unnecessary.