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Speculation Could Mortis have something to do with Episode 7

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by the-jedi-prince, Nov 4, 2012.

  1. Bashar

    Bashar Jedi Youngling

    Apr 19, 2011
    I tihnk we've stumbled on to something here. It can't just be that it was so popular as a TCW story arc. The incorporation that we've seen throughout the SW universe in a such a short amount is highly intriguing in regards to these new movies. This alone makes me believe we will see it in some way. I don't know if they can stretch it out over three movies, but maybe. If they make the ST a quest to find the meaning/source/will(or whils) of the force or something like that I guess they could make it work.
  2. JackG

    JackG Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Aug 15, 2011
    Actually it was high divisive; many liked it and many absolutely hated it.
    Ryus, TheManFromMortis and Zeta1127 like this.
  3. jedi_jra

    jedi_jra Jedi Knight star 1

    Feb 2, 2011
    Recent articles tend to suggest two sequal trilogies were a part of the original plan, one taking place soon after ROTJ, and the other involving the Children of the Skywalkers, and now the new ST could be a combination of the two. Our leads should now be grandparents, not parents.

    "There are two trilogies planned, all following an original overview by Lucas, which was always planned as a multi generational saga. Movies 10 - 12 are from my understanding
    about the offspring of the Skywalkers, set many years later with the surviving cast playing much older versions of themselves and featuring a female protagonist named Skywalker. This is something

    that I understand is being discussed as the latest trilogy may end up being an amalgamation of the two using themes and ideas from both, but still keeping the general story, also allowing for continuity of cast." - Source MarketSaw

    Could Mortis be used to explain the ages of Luke, Leia, or Han? I hope this isn't the case, but it sure seems like a convenient way to combine the two planned sequel trilogies.

    "Time was experienced differently inside the Mortis monolith than in the rest of the galaxy—standard days experienced on Mortis by Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker and Ahsoka Tano were only "a moment" experienced in normal space by Captain Rex."


    I can see it now... the Scroll

    The children of Princess Leia Luke Skywalker, now young Jedi in the newly formed Jedi Order, set out in search of their parents who went missing while searching for the mythical Mortis...
    TheManFromMortis likes this.
  4. the-jedi-prince

    the-jedi-prince Jedi Knight star 2

    Jun 2, 2011
    Im thinking Luke might visit or stay on mortis to balance the force at some point in the st.
    The trilogy could be based on finding it.
    If Anakin had stayed wouldnt the prophecy of been completed
    TheManFromMortis likes this.
  5. the-jedi-prince

    the-jedi-prince Jedi Knight star 2

    Jun 2, 2011
    If the son isnt dead and escapes Mortis he will hunt down and kill Skywalker making a brilliant enemy which jedi cant controll or defeat.

    Anakin stopped the son and his plans

    I think episode 9 could finish with a Skywalker defeating the son of Mortis and balancing the force forever by being selfless and staying there
    Darkslayer likes this.
  6. Fleab88

    Fleab88 Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 12, 2012
    I actually strongly want them to use the Mortis concept in this trilogy. I get that everyone else really hates it thinking it is just part of the crummy EU even though they forget it was a direct concept of Lucas himself. It fits with me. People want to get back to the mystical and away form the scifi midichlorian concept. This does it pretty well I think.
  7. the-jedi-prince

    the-jedi-prince Jedi Knight star 2

    Jun 2, 2011
    This could be way off the mark but as i earlier said it featured strongly in 2 books and the clone wars all around the same time which is also the same time that Lucas was thinking about episode7 etc.

    He loves the idea of father and son relationships and could have Anakin as Luke's force ghost instead of Obi Wan and with The Son of Mortis seeking revenge against Skywalker this could be fantastic.
  8. GeneralCeel

    GeneralCeel Jedi Padawan star 2

    Nov 4, 2005
  9. Chewbacca89

    Chewbacca89 Jedi Master star 5

    Oct 25, 2012
    I always hoped the big three would just fade into backround...not be killed off. Obviously they would eventually die, but I would rather them pass from old age, not murdered.
  10. The-Eternal-Hero

    The-Eternal-Hero Jedi Knight star 4

    Nov 3, 2012
    I feel yr pain, but seriously, we deep SW fanatics have been having non-stop Xmas since 1999. Time to let the other kids play with the shiny toys too :)
  11. Jinn-N-Tonic

    Jinn-N-Tonic Jedi Knight star 1

    Jul 17, 2006
    Lst night on the O'reilly Factor, "Mortis" was the word of the day. When writing in don't be a mortis.
  12. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Feb 28, 2003
    There wasn't a whole lot on Mortis. Three super beings, all of whom died (or the Father became one with the Force). The planet itself or at least the architecture seemed to collapse in their absence.
    Any link with Mortis would be weak.

    Lucas had said that Anakin killed the Sith and brought balance to the Force, concluding the saga and there not being any story to tell beyond that for the sequels. Now he is talking about the ST as the conclusion rather than the OT. One direction I think they could take is by establishing that Anakin did not bring balance to the Force.

    On Mortis: Son is used to represent that Dark Side, and he even goes so far as to say that he is Sith and yet not. He represents the Dark Side which encompasses the ideology of the Sith, but also extends beyond them. Daughter was the polar opposite and was of the Light Side. Son was selfish, Daughter selfless.

    The Father maintains balance between the two, but as his control weakens the Son gains strength. Father wants Anakin to take his place and keep Son balanced with Daughter and to fulfill his role as the Chosen One. Daughter is eventually killed and Son skews the balance in favor of the Dark Side, just as the Sith did. To restore balance, Son has to die too.

    Mortis showed balance as being achieved through the survival of both children under the influence of a being that could keep them under control, or the alternative was the destruction of both.

    Just as Son emobodies the Dark Side, so too do the Sith, while the Jedi embody the Light Side as their antithesis along with Daughter. As the Jedi weakened, the Sith skewed the balance in their favor, and then Vader with the help of Luke destroys the Sith and Luke goes on to found a new Jedi Order. Where is the balance there? The Force is said to have a will as well as two sides. If the Sith follow the dark will and the Jedi follow the light will and these two opposing views come into conflict, how can there be said to be balance when the Sith are destroyed, their ideology suppressed, and all that is left are Jedi that follow the yang of the Force but reject the yin? The Sith are the yin to the Jedi yang and they were destroyed. Seems like the pendulum just swung from imbalance in favor of the Dark Side to imbalance in favor of the Light Side.

    Mortis seemed to suggest that balance requires the co-existence of both or the destruction of both. Force users =/= Force, but their actions clearly have an impact on the Force. The Sith can push it out of balance, Jedi and Sith can "hear" the will of the Force, and they are attuned to it. Yet the side that acted as the dark counterpart to the Jedi Order's light was destroyed. There's no balance there. All of the non-Force users seem to be on some gradient in between Sith and Jedi, not wholly good and not wholly evil. Having both selfish and selfless desires. Seems like if both Orders were destroyed, they would have balance. And if a new ideology arose that was not committed to one side or the other and saw the good that can arise from both sides (trust your instincts not an ideology) that perhaps balance could stem that way.

    More succinctly, I think Mortis can call into question whether Anakin actually established any kind of balance due to the actions of his son in rebuilding the Jedi Order after Anakin had destroyed both (which could have brought balance, just as the deaths of both Son and Daughter had on Mortis).
    TheManFromMortis and Dra--- like this.
  13. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Jul 2, 2004
    Unfortunately, that direction would be undermined by one of the episodes in the Mortis arc, for Ghosts of Mortis had the Father foresee that Anakin would restore balance to the Force in the normal galaxy, not in Mortis, in an obvious reference to ROTJ.

    "Balance" or equilibrium between the inhabitants of Mortis is not the same thing as the balance of the Force, though it works as metaphor.

    Yet the Jedi do not push it out of balance toward the light, even when they outnumber the Sith 10,000 to one.

    Yet Lucas has maintained that the balance was restored at that point, so clearly his definition of the balance of the Force is completely different from "Jedi-Sith head count". The balance of the Force is not a balance of Force-users because Force-users are not the Force. A Jedi/Sith stalemate would be highly unlikely as the anticipated outcome of a Jedi prophecy. The balance is between the light side and the dark side. The dark side is not destroyed. It is left in balance with the light.
  14. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Feb 28, 2003
    The Force may not be synonymous with Force users, but the Force users are acting with influence upon the Force. The Dark Side is a natural part of the Force that is pushed out of balance when the Sith use it. Yet when the Sith are destroyed and all that remains are Jedi that reject the Dark Side and use the Light Side the Force is in balance? And the balance between the inhabitants on Mortis is said by the Father to impact the balance in the Galaxy; that the Daughter dying and Son growing stronger will tip the balance to the Dark Side and that the Sith will become more powerful as a result. They are Force users, but they also show that they have an influence upon the Force itself. I don't see why the Sith would and the Jedi would not.

    Lucas has maintained that the story was all about Anakin and that it was concluded in the OT and that there was no story to tell. The announcement that there would be more movies came out of nowhere seemingly and now Lucas has confirmed what some suspected of completing an original vision that encompassed 9 episodes that serves as the conclusion to the tale (though some are speculating on a X-XII beyond that). I don't see how 7-9 can serve as a conclusion to anything unless things were not as resolved in ROTJ as we were led to believe/a retcon occurs.

    I am not advocating an equal Jedi-Sith headcount. I'm saying that the destruction of both and eliminating both Orders that have influence and manage the balance (or imbalance) of the Force would lead to balance. Or that both Orders are equally flawed in their ideologies as polarizing doctrines that miss an ideal middle ground.

    As for the Jedi not tipping the Force out of balance: there were still Sith around since Bane's time that were working behind the scenes on a long road to revenge, and for several hundred years up until Tenebrous' master's time, the Force remained in balance despite the existence of both. And if the Sith had to be the cause of the imbalance in the Force, then I find it curious that Ki-Adi-Mundi would maintain that they are extinct and that even Mace would have doubts. The idea that the Force could be out of balance and that the Sith could be extinct don't appear to be mutually exclusive.

    In the films, the Force being out of balance had little consequence beyond affecting the Jedi Order's ability to see into the future and clouding their vision. It's not like a dark shadow spread over the land that corrupted people and created abominations of evil like Sauron's evil spreading across the land in the LOTR universe. And the way the Sith did this was simply by using the Dark Side. Plagueis and Sidious engage in some ritual to empower the Dark Side.

    Regarding the Jedi balancing the Force:

    From Darth Plaugueis:

    In a sense, the Jedi Order had done the same on a galactic scale, Plagueis believed, by bathing the galaxy in the energy of the light side of the Force; or more accurately by fashioning a Force bubble that had prevented infiltration by the dark side, until Tenebrous's Master had succeeded in bursting the bubble, or at least shrinking it. How the Order's actions could be thought of as balancing the Force had baffled generations of Sith, who harbored no delusions regarding the Force's ability to self-regulate.​

    The Jedi were cut off from the Dark Side and shielding themselves from it. I don't see how that restores balance and seems like an act of imbalance if they are doing it on a galactic level to keep the galaxy "bathed" only in one side of the Force until the Sith introduced the other side once more and then eventually tipped the balance in its favor.

  15. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Jul 2, 2004

    But that's just one of the possible examples of equal numbers, also known as "Jedi-Sith headcount" philosophy. It's tantamount to any of the other possible instances, in which Jedi efforts are conveniently negated by an equal number of darksiders.

    Which is entirely inconsistent with the message of the films. The SW saga was not intended as an exercise in stultifying moral relativism. Luke becoming a Jedi was portrayed as a good thing, not the unfortunate result of adopting an incorrect ideology as equally flawed as the Sith one. In Lucas' view the existence of even a flawed Jedi order is seen as a good thing and the same cannot be said for the Sith.
  16. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Feb 28, 2003
    I am aware of this. Which is why in the other thread I said that I am of the opinion the idea of balance being introduced in the fourth film was rubbish. The OT had nothing to contribute to that. The light side/Jedi are depicted as being wholly good and the Sith/dark side are wholly evil and it's very black and white that good triumphs over evil. But instead the idea of balance is that the light side is good, dark side is evil they are two opposing forces that act in concert to create a balance, yet the way to achieve this balance is through the Jedi which favor only the light side while those that follow the dark side and reject the light side cause the imbalance. That's non-sensical. Embracing one side of the coin and rejecting the other... you're rejecting 1/2 of a whole either way. Don't see why good + bad in balance is preferable to good without bad.
  17. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Jul 2, 2004
    While the Jedi do not engage in similar rituals to empower the light side.

    You can write "Sith/dark side" but that still doesn't make the Sith and the dark side the same thing. Good triumphs over evil in that the Empire is defeated and the Sith are destroyed. The dark side is not destroyed.
  18. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Feb 28, 2003
    No, they just create Light Side bubbles and refuse to listen to the will of the Dark Side.
  19. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Jul 2, 2004
    You can't get "good without bad" unless you, for example, somehow mind-control every life form in the galaxy to be "good". This is not a reasonable expectation in any universe. Just because something is "preferable" does not mean that it is realistic or achievable. This is a factor of the yin-yang belief system which originally influenced the conception of the Force. If you use the analogy that Jedi are like galactic police, police do not remove the "bad" from existence, they merely keep it in check.

    If that's true it demonstrates that the Jedi were not tipping the Force out of balance. The Sith at that point were not tipping the Force out of balance either - which shows that unbalancing the Force toward the dark is not something that just automatically happens whenever someone uses the dark side or calls himself or herself a Sith.

    The Darth Plagueis quote may read that way, but if taken completely literally it doesn't seem to be consistent with the Bane trilogy. In fact, the implied concept wouldn't work with the Sith history implicit in Darth Plagueis itself. There were Sith in existence throughout that time. If the galaxy was "bathed" only in one side of the Force, what were those prior Sith using? The light side?
  20. Anakin Starkiller

    Anakin Starkiller Jedi Master star 1

    Jun 13, 1999
    I have speculated in other threads that the Son had survived Anakin's strike with a Lightsaber in the Mortis Trilogy and is currently posing as Darth Maul.

    I think the Son would be a great villain for the Sequel Trilogy. Not a Sith, but a powerful force of the Dark Side. Remember Lucas has used animation in the past to introduce a character later seen in film with Boba Fett's animated appearance in the Holiday Special.
  21. swarm87

    swarm87 Jedi Youngling

    Nov 7, 2012
    so your saying that the average fan doesnt watch TV?
  22. Tim Battershell

    Tim Battershell Jedi Master star 5

    Sep 3, 2012
    Not everyone can access the channel TCW runs on (or wants to), but I've had suspicions for some time that Mortis would feature in some way, at some point - just from the amount of references that have been spread around. Just a question of how and where.

    My information on Mortis came from Apocalypse and Wookiepedia!
  23. fenton

    fenton Jedi Master star 4

    Nov 29, 2001
    No, Mortis won't factor in. The concept is too....heady.

    We won't see Mortis.
    The-Eternal-Hero likes this.
  24. The-Eternal-Hero

    The-Eternal-Hero Jedi Knight star 4

    Nov 3, 2012

    While I personally loved the Mortis Trilogy, it caused a lot of contention among SW fans. It was divisive. I don't think it's the direction they should go in for VII. While it would delight me if GL made another esoteric, arcane, weirdly mythological SW movie, the average audience member just wants to laugh, cry and cheer again. I don't feel like having to listen to fan bitterness for the next 20 years. Yeah, just skip all that & go back to basics, seems the best move here.
    Blip likes this.

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 6

    Nov 1, 2012
    IF the rumours about the resurrection of Darth Vader are true, then I foresee a potential Mortis reference. It is the only logical scenario in which he could exist. The balance of the Force could be represented by Anakin Skywalker AND Darth Vader - somehow, both existing separately on Mortis. Maybe the persona of Darth Vader cannot be fully destroyed until the offspring of Anakin find peace/closure within themselves.

    I would find the ST to be more fascinating if it was about Leia struggling to accept her father and the Skywalker family name. Ending Episode IX with Leia becoming "Grand Master Leia Skywalker" would be a fantastic way to end the Skywalker Saga.*

    *I'm actually going to demand royalties, if this actually happens