PT Could Obi-Wan have handled his conversation with Padme better?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by The Supreme Chancellor, Mar 13, 2013.

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  1. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Instead of telling Padme that Anakin had turned to the dark side and he needed to kill him, why didn't Obi-Wan simply say he was in danger, or say "yes" when she asked if he was under threat by the Sith...I mean we all know Obi-Wan isn't above telling stories through a "certain POV".

    Is it possible he hadn't developed the POV philosophy yet? Or did he just have no idea what he was going to say when he went to see her?
  2. TheMadHatter Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2009
    star 4
    Anakin was going around killing anything that got in the way

    then wasn't the time for semantics
    Last edited by TheMadHatter, Mar 13, 2013
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  3. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Yeah but then he wouldn't have had to follow Padme and put her in the middle of the confrontation. Obi-Wan's mistake puts her death on his shoulders as well.
  4. Seagoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 4
    She would have died anyway. Broken heart and whatnot.
  5. TheMadHatter Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2009
    star 4
    no, no,

    she died of a broken heart because he strangled her :p


    she was ready to move away with him and forget his infanticide remember ;)
  6. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Padme may have been willing to sweep Anakin's crimes under the rug and run away with him (great going, Padme) but clearly Anakin was not willing to do the same.
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  7. sg1A Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2013
    star 1
    No i think that Padme's death is strictly Anakin's fault. His jealousy and paranoia gets the best of him. The Dark side clouds all, even judgement.
  8. Rawne Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2008
    star 2
    Obi-Wan didn't say that though. He asked if she knew where Anakin was and that he's in danger. I mean, it's true. But Obi-Wan didn't say "Yo girl I gotta go kill Anakin". Padme arrived at that conclusion herself and Kenobi didn't deny it.

    Personally I think Padme could have maybe handled being told her husband is a child killing dark sider a bit smarter, and not go flying off to a volcano planet while heavily pregnant to meet up with him. There's a lot things Padme Amidala could have handled better.

    Obi-Wan's not at fault at all. He needed to find Darth Vader. He found him. The only person to blame for her death is Anakin Skywalker.

    The only thing Obi-Wan is guilty of is not learning how to make backup copies of holograms.
    Last edited by Rawne, Mar 13, 2013
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  9. SHAD0W-JEDI Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 3
    Okay, if my avatar isn't clue enough, I am an admirer of the Jedi in general, and of Obi-Wan in particular. Big surprise there, I am sure! ;) So yeah, I have my preferences. But I don't think it is "pro-Jedi" of me to note that an awful lot of folks sure seem determined to place blame on the Jedi for just about everything that goes wrong or anything that the non-Jedi characters do that ends badly.

    I haven't watched ROTS of late, but my recollection of the Obi-Wan/Padme scene is that it was one of the most human, "real" moments in the Prequels and maybe in ALL of the SW movies. It was obvious that Obi-Wan had known a lot more than he had let on, for quite some time (which to me is yet ANOTHER counter to the "Obi Wan and those Jedi were just a bunch of stuffy jerks, with no empathy, no wonder poor Anakin "fell" outlook - no offense!) , that he felt sadness at how this was turning out for ALL concerned, and sadness/pity/empathy for Padme, He handled it pretty gently, considering what was transpiring.

    BTW, I would argue with those who assert that Obi-Wan was going after Anakin to kill him. I think he knew that it was unlikely that Anakin would renounce the Dark Side at this point, but if Anakin had, I don't think Obi-Wan was determined to kill him. What made the mission likely to end in conflict and death, for one of them, was Anakin's fall, Anakin's attitude, not Obi-Wan's. IMHO.

    Shadow
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  10. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Idunno man...Yoda said straight-up "Destroy the Sith we must". But maybe that referred to redeeming him. If you kill the Master and redeem the apprentice then you have destroyed the Sith Order.
  11. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I don't know that the conversation was a mistake, she needed to know what was really happening.

    I don't think he should have stowed away on her ship though. He meant well, but Anakin in his paranoid state saw Obi-Wan and went completely bats.

    Not to take the blame off Anakin, he's the one who attacked Padme and may have done so anyway. But I've never thought that the stowing away on her ship was a smart move.
  12. heels1785 Jedi Draft Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    I think the "deleted scene" in which Obi-Wan visits Padme before leaving for Utapau would have connected things better, to illustrate that they had a close relationship (or any relationship at all- we see very little of that in the films), and that Obi-Wan knew much more than he ever let on, be it regarding the "stress" of his former Padawan, or even Anakin's secret life. The way it was framed, Obi-Wan came across as a bit cynical, especially with his last quip.
  13. Jedi Gunny Yahtzee Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    May 20, 2008
    star 8
    Yes, I think Obi-Wan could've handled the conversation a little better, but he was clearly still in shock that Anakin had turned, and thus he wasn't about to play the wise guy role. He said what he had to.
  14. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Given the circumstances, I think Obi-Wan did the best he could. He told Padmé that Anakin was in danger from himself, which is the truth. And Padmé needed to know what Anakin was doing so I think it was important that Obi-Wan inform her. The only thing I imagine he could have done differently would be not to have stowed away on her ship. Here, I think events might have unfolded a bit differently if Obi-Wan had simply placed a tracking device on Padmé's ship and then followed her in his own vessel.
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  15. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    As far as the stowing away...it's so very difficult to know what Obi-Wan should have done and whether or not it would have made any difference.

    As far as Padme goes, it's easy to say and see that he should not have stowed away.

    As far as Anakin goes: another ship entering atmosphere right after or shortly after Padme's ship probably would have drawn Vader's attention; he may well have thought Padme was the lure to pull him into the open or forecurser of an attack upon him or them both. I could see Vader taking the same "you brought him here" accusation in this scenario as well.

    If Obi-Wan had stayed in orbit, in another ship - well, would he have endangered Padme trying to capture Vader? Would he have to let them escape to save her, or sacrifice her to get Vader?

    I'm not sure there was an absolute "right" thing to do and Obi-Wan had a duty: to apprenhend and stop Vader from wreaking more havoc upon the galaxy. I'm sure that trumped all to him.
  16. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    It's impossible to know if it would have made a difference if Obi-Wan had phrased his remarks to Padme a bit differently. Given that he had just seen a recording of his best friend ('brother') slaughtering children, I suspect that he wasn't thinking quite as calmly as usual, anyway.
  17. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    He's just as guilty as Anakin. Well, a bit less.
  18. DARTHSHAME Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2003
    star 4
    I do not know what more he could have done, by then the damage was done. Anakin was unredeemable (in Obi-Wan's mind). I like the way he says "I am so sorry" I even use his way of saying it in my life, usually in sarcasm.
  19. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    JAT even said it the same way in The Lawless!
  20. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    I think Obi-Wan went to Padme with the sole objective of finding Anakin. At a guess, normal Jedi practice in this sort of situation would be to say the Minimum Correct Thing in response to queries about one's mission without revealing much of it to an outsider. However, Obi-Wan is visibly under tremendous strain and conflicted about fighting his oldest friend -- and also lying to his friend's love, which he knows Padme is. The scene comes across as one of the most human in the PT because Obi-Wan is wrestling with a hundred competing priorities and moral dilemnas at once, and visibly losing. First and foremost dilemna being that he's being dishonest to Padme.

    Dishonest? Yup. Remember that Obi-Wan's whole conversation with Padme is a gambit: he knows full well she won't tell him where Anakin is if she knows he's going to kill Anakin, but he knows she'll go straight to Anakin. Obi-Wan is manipulating Padme, deceiving her so he can find Anakin. And much of the strain he's visibly under is as much that betrayal of Padme and by extension Anakin as it is his own conflict about killing Anakin at all.

    There are still elements of his issues with this dishonesty in his conversation with Luke in ANH: you can see him thinking over or having some inner issues with telling Luke the truth, be it from a certain point of view or otherwise. But it's an inner conflict the older Ben puts down much more easily than he did deceiving Luke's mother, mainly because he knows there really isn't any other way.
    Last edited by Saintheart, Mar 26, 2013
  21. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    I don't think Obi-Wan thought Anakin was irredeemable yet, before the duel he plea's with him and is almost waiting for Anakin to come to his senses. "ANAKIN MY ALLEGIANCE IS TO THE REPUBLIC! TO DEMOCRACY!"
  22. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    Anakin had slaughtered all the younglings. He was beyond reasoning with. But I suppose all Obi wan could do was give it a shot. Probably knew it would be fruitless but what the hell..
  23. FARK2005 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 2
    I agree Obi-Wan used Padmé to find Anakin – he knew that one way or the other Padmé would likely reveal Anakin’s location to him – but he wasn’t being dishonest. He told Padmé he needed to find Anakin because Anakin had become a threat to himself and others, which is the truth. And while he may not have positively confirmed if he was going to kill Anakin, he didn’t deny it either. Taking advantage of someone does not equal deceiving them.
    Last edited by FARK2005, Mar 26, 2013
  24. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Obi-Wan didn't strut in there and was all like, "Yo! Your man! He dead!". He was warning her of what happened and trying to find Anakin. He was trying to help her and get a lead. She's the one who puts it together that he's going to kill him. And he doesn't confirm it outright, he kind of sidesteps it and says (truthfully) that Anakin has become a very grave threat.
  25. DARTHSHAME Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2003
    star 4
    Its plausible, but he seemed pretty resolute to do what needed to be done while talking with Padme. I agree with Jcuk above, one last try to convince Anakin would not hurt. However, after seeing the younglings slaughtered I think he realized that Anakin was gone.
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