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Could Padme be blamed to a degree for the destruction of the Jedi and Anakin's Fall?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by StarWarsFan91, May 7, 2011.

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  1. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    They obviously didn't care about Tuskens murdering humans or other species, that has been demonstrated other movies (TPM and ANH), so I'm not sure why they would care about humans murdering Tuskens.
     
  2. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Farmers are weak and will not cause much problems. The Tusken however... More Tusken attacks = bad for business.
     
  3. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    So the Hutts have a double standard or are species-ist?

    I could believe that, but as far as it translating into the idea that Padme should report Anakin to the Hutts--no, definitely not. If the Hutts did not and would not prosecute the Tuskens for brutally torturing Shmi to death and murdering the farmers who rescued her, why should they be involved in any way in "justice" for Anakin for avenging his mother's death? Seems that Padme's getting them involved would be endorsing their double standard. I realize that her alleged covering up for Anakin is detestable to some, but I don't understand how reporting him to a group like the Hutts, and therefore endorsing the idea that the Tuskens' actions were acceptable, is somehow better. (I say "alleged" covering up for Anakin because I genuinely do not believe that she made a well-thought-out decision to cover up for him, given that the war started the next day and they were all a bit distracted.)

    I can understand the argument that she should have gone to Obi-Wan or the Council, I even agree with it to a point, but the idea that she should report Anakin to the very Hutts who allow the Tuskens to terrorize settlers on Tatooine in the first place, I do not understand.
     
  4. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Well, yes. Jabba doesn't strike me as a fair guy.

    I'm not saying she should report Anakin to the Hutts. You can't expect justice from them, only "order". So I agree with you on this.
    I was just addressing the claim that the Hutts wouldn't care about the slaughter of a Tusken village, which is imo incorrect.
     
  5. PiettsHat

    PiettsHat Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2011
    But didn't the Tuskens shoot at the Podracers and thus interfere with the race? Considering how involved the Hutts seem to be in the gambling business, I'd wager they wouldn't mind seeing a few Tuskens taken out, if only to be rid of a nuisance.
     
  6. Darthbane2007

    Darthbane2007 Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 31, 2007
    In a way, but not completely.

    Jedi: I can see the Yoda/Mace's concern in initially testing anakin. He's 9 years old, has a family and has formed attachments, something a Jedi of this era should not have. But anyway they decide to train him anyway, and that is where the trouble begins. First off, you think that with Anakin being the so called " Chosen One" that would bring balance to the force, they would stick him with a seasoned jedi master, or someone who has a stellar with raising unorthodox padawans? But no, they give him to Obi-Wan, who barely just came out of his Padawan stage, just because dear old Qui-Gon made a dying wish to him to train Anakin. And then they go on to treat him as simply the chosen one, constantly reminding him how he's supposed to destroy the sith, and not of him as a person. He pretty much had no friends in the Jedi Order, aside from Obi-Wan.

    Palpatine: old palps was guilty of stroking Anakin's ego, causing him to believe he was the the BEST JEDI EVAH!!! and not heeding the advice of his fellow bretheren. Of course, he also is responsible for the past 13 years from TPM to ROTS, creating events and wars that would continue to sway Anakin closer to the dark side.
     
  7. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    I'm not sure a few dead racers will hurt business.

    With their primitive rifles the Tusken wouldn't hit the broad side of a barn anyway, nevertheless a pod racer.
     
  8. EECHUUTA

    EECHUUTA Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 19, 2007
    I think I would say that it didn't matter whether or not Anakin was within or outside of Republic space, he was still a Jedi and bound to their rules.

    Would the Jedi have frowned on Anakin killing the Tuskans? Yes. It might be that they would have overlooked the killing of a few as it was a crime of passion and done in the heat of the moment, but whether or not they would have kicked him out is debatable. More then likely they would have counseled him first rather then just kick him out, as that seems to be done mainly as an act of last resort.

    Should Padme have told the Jedi Council? Yes, she should have. Even if it wasn't done in the Republic, what Anakin did still broke a Jedi rule. OK, so Anakin would have been angry. So what? But at least the Council would be aware of it and maybe help Anakin better if they knew just how deep his issues ran. My impression is that they thought it was run-of-the-mill usual stuff, and didn't know that he just killed a whole bunch of people in a fit of grief. If they did, they might've taken a differant approach.
    I would say that it's akin to someone who is a bit sad verses someone who is in deep despair and suicidal. One doesn't really require all that much, while the other needs intense intervention. If the Coucil knew that he was that bad, they would say, "Hmmm, this is more serious. He needs a differant approach, and a way for him to come to terms with his grief. Let's find a kind and experianced Master he could talk to, someone he could air his issues to and who himself has been through grief and learned from it."
    I don't think the Coucil would just sit on an issue like that, otherwise they'd have a bunch more people flying off the handle.

     
  9. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    The discussion of the deed being done outside Republic space was in reference to the OP's comment about calling "the police" as well as the ensuing discussion of whether Padme could be charged with accessory to murder. No, she could not under Republic law, because the act did not happen in the Republic.

    As far as Jedi rules, you are correct, it does not matter where Anakin was, he was still bound by their rules. And I will agree that Padme should have told Obi-Wan or the Council, although I disagree that her not telling them, makes her responsible for his subsequent actions in ROTS. Maybe I disagree because I am not optimistic about the idea that the Council would try to help Anakin, I think they would have just booted him. They seemed to have no idea why Anakin was so attached to his mother in the first place and seemed to think that he should just be able to forget that she existed, which was not at all a realistic concept for Anakin. And while we could argue over whether or not he should be expelled from the Order for this (and I could take either side), I am also not convinced that expelling him would keep him from turning to the Dark Side.

    There is a scene in Karen Miller's Wild Space in which Obi-Wan probed Padme about what happened on Tatooine, and she told him that Shmi died, but did not elaborate any further. She felt that it was Anakin's place to tell his Master what happened, not hers. Maybe this was me reading between the lines, but she also seemed to think that he would tell Obi-Wan what happened. Obviously she was wrong about that. Would she have made a different decision if she had known that Anakin would remain closed-mouthed about what happened? Who knows.
     
  10. PiettsHat

    PiettsHat Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Are you sure? Because I distinctly remember shots from Tusken rifles bouncing off Anakin's pod and causing another racer's engines to explode in TPM. And I would argue that a few dead Tuskens would be preferable to a few dead racers, for the Hutts at least.

    That's a bit off topic, though. Padme's close relationship with Anakin means, of course, that at some time she likely influenced the destruction of the Jedi and the fall of the Republic. The fact that she is also a Senator means she's intimately involved as well. If we're just talking about the Tusken slaughter, though, I'd say it would be rather difficult to charge her with any crime, considering Palpatine was informed as well.

    Also, here's a thought, but do the films ever conclusively state that Obi-Wan and the Jedi don't know about the slaughter? I realize it's highly unlikely that Anakin told them, but was it ever confirmed to be a secret shared only with Padme and Palpatine?
     
  11. EECHUUTA

    EECHUUTA Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 19, 2007
    The major reason why I think they wouldn't have booted him out, is because he's supposed to be 'the one to destroy the Sith.' The Jedi think he's the Chosen One, as they let him join even at the normally too old age of 9. I also see that they consider him quite powerful; they wouldn't dare let someone of that magnitude walk around unsupervised, especially as they'd consider such people to be dangerous without the steadying influence of Jedi teachings.
     
  12. TragicHeroLover132

    TragicHeroLover132 Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Dec 24, 2010
    I definitely agree. The Jedi Order needed Anakin. He was one of the heroes of the Republic, and the Chosen One.

    Also, as anakinfansince1983 said, Padme in Wild Space believed Anakin would take responsibility for his actions. The fact that she assumed that means she can't be an accessory to murder, or even an accessory after the fact.

    And really, it's not naive of her to think that. After all, Anakin had told her, a Senator of the Republic, about what he had done, so it was logical of her to assume that he would be honest enough to tell the Jedi Council and Obi Wan about his crimes as well.

    Not only that, but Anakin in general is a honest person. He hated keeping their marriage secret, as evidenced by the reunion scene in ROTS.

    If Padme had known that Anakin would keep it a secret, she might have told on him...
     
  13. I-poodoo

    I-poodoo Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2001
    Was padme responsible for the fall of the Jedi and Anakin's fall to Darth Vader?

    No to the fall of the Jedi. From a certain point of view the argument could be made to support the accusation that she's responsible for Anakin's fall to the darkside, but I don't think so.

    Anakin and Palpatine and the Jedi themselves were the ones responisible for the fall of the jedi order and Anakin's fall to the darkside.

    Don't get me wrong I'm not a Padme apologist...I think she's responsible as well as every other senator in the Senate for the fall of the Republic and the birth of the Empire. And I condemn them all for that including Padme, but not for the obliteration of the Jedi order or for Anakin's downfall.
     
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