Could Qui Gonn Jinn have prevented Anakins turn to the dark side

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by DARTHCOLEMAN, Mar 28, 2005.

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  1. DARTHCOLEMAN Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2005
    star 1
    Hi I was wondering if anyone thinks that Qui Gonn Jinn could have prevented Anakins turn to the dark side had he lived. Obi Wan had just become a Jedi Knight and was immedeatly saddled with the responsibility of a padawan learner. Also if Qui Gonn had lived how would he have reacted to Dooku his old master leading the sepratists. A better question is would Dooku have turned to the sith had Qui Gonn lived? The Eu does play on the fact that Qui Gonns death had an effect on him because they had a bond.
  2. DeadDooku Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 7, 2005
    star 2
    Both Dooku and Anakin would have stayed in the light. His death was critical to Sidious's plans
    Order66Survivor likes this.
  3. mrfootball Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2005
    star 2
    yes- not training him at all and he would never expand his knowledge of the jedi. but he defeats the emperor and brings balance to the force, so whats the beef?
  4. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    I believe that Anakin would have been much less likely to turn under Qui-gon tutelage, as they both had similar personalities. Not that I'm trying to trash Obi-wan or anything, but he seems like he is doing everything he can to be appointed to the Council one day. I really don't think that Obi-wan and Anakin were very compatible, personality wise. Under Qui-gon, Anakin probably would have become a maverick Jedi, but would have remained in the Order.

    BTW Dead Dooku, while I agree that the death Qui-gon was key to Sidious' plans, Dooku had already been out of the Order for 10 yrs at the time of Ep.I. If Dooku hadn't turned by that point, then his fall was certainly inevitalble
  5. PADME-II Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2004
    star 1
    Both Dooku and Anakin would have stayed in the light. His death was critical to Sidious's plans

    It seemed Maul was awfully intent on separating Qui-gon and OB1 and then looking to bring down Qui-gon first.

    Order66Survivor likes this.
  6. Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2004
    star 4
    It's possible, but Anakin had alot of emotional issues that neither Obi Wan or Qui Gon could have changed. IMO, the only thing that could have really helped if is somebody had to leave the Order to train him...get him the heck out of the sphere of Palpatine's influence. Really, not training him at all would have been the best option, but obviously, once brought to Coruscant, the Sith would have known of his existence and jumped on him if the Jedi let him go.
  7. Joeykin_Starrunner Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 1
    That's an interesting point you guys brought up, about Qui Gonn's death being a part of Sidious's plans. I don't really think that it's true, it makes sense in a way, but in another way, the biggest reason to kill off Qui Gonn would be so that Anankin would be given to Obi Wan as a padawan, leading to a rushed and forced Menotr/Padawan relationship, and thus making his pathway to the Dark Side easier. Sidious couldn't have possibly forseen that all of this would lead up to Anakin's descent, because at that point he didn't know of Anakin's existence. But all we can do is wonder,cause regardless of what the truth is, I don't think that part of the films will ever be addressed again, so we'll never know =)

    I always thought of that fight as being about how Darth Maul was a cocky bastard, and thought himself too good to fight a Padawan, and killing a Padawan would be too easy, so why not toy with him a little bit, and concentrate on the big fish first, cause he could take care of the Padawan at any time. That's why Obi was able to kill him, cause Maul underestimated him and toyed with him too much (i.e. instead of showering Obi with those sparks, Maul shoulda just cut off his hands or something and made him fall down that shaft). Anyways, I really don't think Qui Gonn's death was apart of Sidious' plans. I think it was the Will of the Force, just as many things concerning Anankin's fate were.
  8. WLDB Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2004
    star 4
    Well Obi Wan dosnt like Anakin much in TPM. Qui Gon on the other hand, is like a father to him. Anakin and Qui Gon are a lot alike, I think that Qui Gon and Anakin would get along a lot better.
  9. Azhrei Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 1
    I think Qui-Gon's death was something Palpatine planned for and counted on. In fact, if he hadn't died, things would've been much harder for him.

    Whoever said that Dooku was gone from the Order ten years before Qui-Gon's death is wrong - it's known that he left the Order because he blamed the Jedi Council for his death, and he left soon after. Anyway, onwards!

    Firstly, Dooku might not have left the Order. And if he had, Qui-Gon might've been able to convince him to return, or at least appeal to him to not bring about a war. Palpatine needed Dooku to murder Sifo-Dyas so he could order the creation of the clone army. Would Dooku have fallen to the Dark Side, be so willing to follow Palpatine's orders if Qui-Gon had surived the duel with Maul, as he would therefore have lost his biggest reason to leave the Order?

    Secondly, Qui-Gon was the only one who cared about Anakin and his future. He even had no intention of training him at first - he trusted in the Council to see his potential, and have him trained. He promised Shmi to look out for him, which practically states his original intent - to continue with Obi-Wan, and to let the Council look after Anakin's training.

    Before the Jedi Council, Qui-Gon defended Anakin from what he believed to be their short-sightedness.

    "He is the Chosen One, you must see it?"

    Yoda admitted to Obi-Wan on Naboo that Qui-Gon was right all along.

    "Qui-Gon believed in him."
    *Sigh* "The Chosen One the boy may be... nevertheless! Grave danger, I fear, in his training!"

    He defended Anakin when Obi-Wan criticised him, right in front of the child, too. That was tactless. Anakin understood right there and then just how Obi-Wan felt about him.

    "The boy is dangerous. They all sense it, why can't you?"
    "His future is uncertain, he is not dangerous. The Council will decide his future - that should be enough for you. Now get on board."
    "...Qui-Gon, sir, I don't want to be any trouble."
    "You won't be, Ani."

    His future was uncertain... because nobody at that point believed that in a few days, Qui-Gon would be dead. Had he survived, I really believe that Anakin wouldn't have fallen. Bonded to a man who was more like a father than anyone else, the only person beside his mother to pay him any attention, he would've grown into a much more mature young man than the one we see in Attack Of The Clones.

    He also would have much less contact with Palpatine because Qui-Gon was constantly on the move around the galaxy, as the Council's first choice for many missions - which is why he was sent to sort out the mess between the Trade Federation and Naboo. This is also pretty much fact because the Council trusted in Qui-Gon's abilities that they only sent an ageing Master and his apprentice to deal with the first resurgence of the Sith in a thousand years.

    As for Qui-Gon's death being critical to Palpatine's plans, I really believe this to be true, because Palpatine tells Darth Maul as much.

    "Move against the Jedi first. You will then have no difficulty in getting the Queen to sign the treaty."

    What did he mean by saying, move against "the Jedi"? Did he mean both of them, or just Qui-Gon? Qui-Gon was a well known Jedi in the Order - and who does Maul focus his efforts on during the duel?

    He ignores Obi-Wan entirely. He barely looks at him. He concentrates on Qui-Gon for the entire fight - always glaring at him, jeering at him from behind that mocking smile. Why else would he knock Obi-Wan off the platform, if Obi-Wan was as much the target as Qui-Gon? Because he wasn't - and that's why Qui-Gon died, that's why Anakin's future was so clouded from Yoda.
  10. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    Secondly, Qui-Gon was the only one who cared about Anakin and his future.

    That's not true at all

    The council denying Anakin entry into the order was BECAUSE they cared for his future. Furthermore, Obi Wan might not like Anakin in TPM - but to deny his caring for Anakin beyond TPM is ridiculous. Qui Gon was not the only one who saw potential in Anakin, he was just the only one who thought they should act on it immediately. The entire council (and arguably Obi Wan) saw that Anakin was special.

    He defended Anakin when Obi-Wan criticised him, right in front of the child, too. That was tactless.

    While i agree, do you not think it tactless for Qui Gon to shove Obi Wan aside for Anakin, in the middle of the Jedi Council chamber nonetheless.

    Obi Wan may, still, have come to back Qui Gons claim up. But one only need to look at the glance they share that both know what just happened there. This is further supported by their talks later on (both the argument and them complimenting each other).

    Still, i agree that Obi Wan was a little harsh on Anakin.

    Bonded to a man who was more like a father than anyone else, the only person beside his mother to pay him any attention, he would've grown into a much more mature young man than the one we see in Attack Of The Clones.

    "So sure to know, you?"

    Anakin still would miss his mother, he would still not be with Padme, he would still not be a Jedi Knight, he would still feel stronger than the rest of the Jedi, and, arguably, Palpatine would still be interested in him.

    Granted, Anakin would probably listen more to Qui Gon than Obi Wan. But a lot of the problems he has in AotC really have very little to do with Obi Wan, that's the irony of it all - he tries blaming everybody (Obi Wan mainly) for everything he doesn't have.

    He ignores Obi-Wan entirely

    I think this has more to do with Qui Gon being a far more challenging combatant than Sidious giving an order based on vague assumptions.

    Also, Maul & Qui fought before - that point is made in the novel actually, that Maul wants a rematch.

    - O_F
  11. Palps Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2003
    star 1
    I don't know. It's possible. Did George Lucas ever say anything about this?
  12. DARTHCOLEMAN Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2005
    star 1
    I have to agree that Obi Wan shouuld not have said what he said in front of Anakin because I belive that Anakin questions Obi Wans commitment to him and it is chronicled in the EU. I think that Qui Gon would have been better for him and worse bwecause he would have learned rebellion from Qui GOnn. Obi Wan questions Qui Gon because he feels that he can be reckless at times. The truth is that Qui Gonn was able to train OBi Wan because Obi Wan is essentialy an unfallen version of his master Dooku. Qui Gon was probably picked by Dooku so he could curb some of his rebellion but also he passed some of his distrust of the senate to QUi Gon and Qui gon passed it to OBi Wan. Obi Wan just couldn't train somebody who was so much like his master where as Qui GOn could train somebody who was like his master Dooku.
  13. CBright7831 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 23, 2004
    star 4

    Still, i agree that Obi Wan was a little harsh on Anakin.


    Another line about Anakin from Obi Wan

    Qui Gon: Well with all of the essential parts we need, I'm going back for some unfinished business.
    Obi Wan: Why do I sense we've picked up another pathetic lifeform?
    Qui Gon: It's the boy who's responsible for getting us these parts. Get this hyperdrive generator installed.
    Obi Wan: Yes, master, it shouldn't be long.

    I've always thought their was a little bit of jealousy of Anakin from Obi Wan.

    You can see through the entire movie. Look when Qui Gon first tells the Jedi about the sith returning. When Obi Wan begins to walk off and Yoda says "Master Qui Gon, more have you to say?" Obi Wan turns around and has that "Oh no, don't tell them about the boy." look on his face. Or later when Qui Gon says he will teach Anakin.
  14. tonyl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 1
    I think Anakin would have had a harder time turning to the Dark Side if he had been Qui-Gon's apprentice. I think the key to this is that Qui-Gon was a believer in the Living Force, in direct opposition to the belief in the Unifying Force that was prevalent among the Jedi in his time. In ESB and ROTJ, Yoda clearly abandons his belief in the Unifying Force when training Luke, and Luke did not turn, even though he was much older than Anakin when he began his training. I hope these two philosophies will be explained in greater detail in ROTS.

    TPM --

    Qui-Gon: Keep your concentration here and now, where it belongs.

    Obi-Wan: Master Yoda says I should be mindful of the future...

    Qui-Gon: ...but not at the expense of the moment. Be mindful of the Living Force, my young Padawan.

    ESB --

    Yoda (about Luke): This one a long time have I watched. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh! Excitement. Heh! A Jedi craves not these things. (turning to Luke) You are reckless!

    There are probably better refrences to the Living Force in ROTJ, but these are the only ones I can recall.
  15. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    I've always thought their was a little bit of jealousy of Anakin from Obi Wan.

    Of course he is.

    Imagine your "father" suddenly turning up with a new kid and focusing all of his attention towards him.

    That's kind of the irony of their journey, Obi Wan starts out jealous of Anakin at their meeting (TPM) - Anakin then, falsely, claims Obi Wan is jealous of his abilities in the middle of their friendship (AotC) - and their friendship ends partly because Anakin's jealous of Obi Wan being the "perfect Jedi" (RotS, arguably the OT).

    Obi Wan's behaviour towards Anakin in TPM is a reactionto the tactlessness of the situation Qui Gon puts him in as soon as he finds Anakin.

    - O_F
  16. DarthSon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2000
    star 2
    Another factor is the influence Palpatine would have had on a young Anakin had Qui Gon survived. Anakin felt he had to look outside the temple for guidance and understanding, I believe had Jinn lived, Palpatine would not have had many opportunities to get close to the boy.
  17. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Given Qui-Gon's understanding of the living force, I believe he would have prevented Anakin from turning. I think he would certainly have gone with Anakin to free Shmi at some point. I also believe he would have realised far sooner that Palpatine=Sidious.

    Make no mistake, Qui-Gon is the Jedi EVERYONE will want to be. Yes, he made mistakes, but he understood the mistakes the Jedi were making and he knew the direction the Jedi would have to go, if they were to surivie the coming darkness. The Jedi Knights that we see in the OT are QUI-GON'S Jedi. Yoda as well as Obi-Wan, and of course in the end Luke, are all following the force the Qui-Gon way, IMO.
  18. Jack_Tripper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2005
    I think Sidious instructed Maul to take out Qui first because he was the stronger of the two. After that he would have no problem with Kenobi.
  19. Jetscream Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2005
    star 4
    Of course he would have prevented. Qui-Gon was a best jedi master for padawans.
  20. DarthMyBoy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2003
    star 1
    I agree with that Qui-Gon and Anakin were like Father and Son. The problem with Obi-Wan and Anakin was they were like best friends who had been together too long
  21. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    " "So sure to know, you?"

    Anakin still would miss his mother, he would still not be with Padme, he would still not be a Jedi Knight, he would still feel stronger than the rest of the Jedi, and arguably, Palpatine would still be interested in him."

    But the difference would be that Anakin wouldn't be emotionally unstable about it since Qui-Gon would help him mature alot better by teaching him how "solutions would present itself". Plus, Ani wouldn't be so arrogant about being stronger than the other Jedi and even if Palpatine is interested in him, he won't do anything about it as long as Qui-Gon is around.
  22. LuvObi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2005
    star 3
    I think that even if Qui Gon trained Anakin, Anakin would still turn to the dark side. It was the will of the Force. Palpatine would've still be around to entice him to the power of the dark side. Anakin would still be arrogant and believe he's more powerful than all the jedi, even Qui Gon.

    Everyone keeps underestimating the bond that Anakin and Obi-Wan had. Maybe Episode 3 will show this more clearly. Obi-Wan obviously cares about Anakin very much.

    As for Qui-Gon, one of his former apprentice turned to the dark side so it's not beyond him that his padawan can turn. The blame of Anakin's turning is solely himself. No matter how angry he is or how appealing the dark side is, if it was in his personality to resist it, he wouldn't have turned. But he couldn't resist it.
  23. steverodgers801 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2005
    star 1
    I think the main problem Obi had was he could not understand someone who grew up outside the Jedi temple. Obe never knew how to deal with anakins talent and he expected anakin to behave in a certain way when it was not his training to do so. I think qui-gon would have been much more intuned with anakins needs and how to handle the boy genius in a way that would not agrivate. I dont blame Obi he simply was not capable in those circumstances but I dont know if any other Jedi could have kept anakin from falling
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