Could Sidious have been involved in Padme's death?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Darth_Infernous, Jan 3, 2006.

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  1. Darth_Infernous Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2005
    star 1
    I've been thinking about Darth Sidious/Palpatine talking about influencing midichlorians to create life, and the theories regarding Anakin being brought into being using this technique, then I got thinking about Padme's death.

    Padme was always a fighter so I find it hard to believe that she just "gave up" the will to live. We know she didn't die because of Anakin's force choke, so could Palpatine have influenced the midichlorians to END her life, then telling Vader he killed her, which would then fuel Vader's grief and despair and guilt spiralling him further into the dark side and then more powerful?

    I think this theory makes more sense than Padme just dying because she was heartbroken over Anakin cos I don't think she would have done that not when she'd just gave birth to twins. I think Darth Sidious had some involvement!
  2. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

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    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
  3. masterjedi747 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2004
    star 3
    She's in a severe state of shock/depression. Her entire world has crumbled around her all at once. The Republic is dead. Anakin has become a monster. It's not a concious choice, but subconciously she just can't handle the stress. Everything she has ever loved is gone, and her body is literally shutting itself down in response to that emotional breakdown. And the childbirth isn't helping now....it's only weakening her body that much more. She can't calm herself down, so her body is being forced to do it itself. Like I said, it's really a subconcious response, not a concious decision on her part.

    Well, I don't. Because believe it or not, things like this can and do happen in real life. It's a real medical phenomenon. There are people who survive things (such as serious illnesses or advanced medical procedures) when, by all means, doctors believe that they should have already died. When they keep struggling to survive against all odds, and succeed, we credit it in part to the strength of their "will to live", because that's literally all that appeared to be keeping them alive. And the same thing happens in the opposite manner, such as this scene with Padme in ROTS. There have been cases of people who, physically, are in perfect (or near perfect) health. However, due to some traumatic event in their life, they become severely upset/depressed, and in some cases simply lay down and die for no apparent reason. We say that these types of people have "lost their will to live". This type of phenomenon has been seen between elderly couples, with mothers and the unexpected loss of thier unborn/newborn children, and with patients in surgery who discover that they have lost all of their family members. I believe it has even been observed in animals (especially dogs) who lose their entire family in a disaster. Don't get me wrong, it isn't a very common phenomenon....but that doesn't mean that it doesn't/couldn't happen. In this case, I think it makes perfect sense....no omnipotent-Palpatine theories needed.
  4. Darth_Infernous Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2005
    star 1
    Maybe so she was in a deep state of shock, but I think the idea of Palpy being involved makes the whole thing a bit more sinister, especially the fact Padme had just gave birth to twins which as a mother would have been her number one priority at that moment.
  5. MasterP Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2003
    star 7
    I doubt Sidious was involved with Padme's death. Padme might have given up the will to live because she thought Anakin had been killed.
  6. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    Yeah, so where in the film can you point to some evidence that we're supposed to see her death as being caused by Palpatine?
  7. Darth_Infernous Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2005
    star 1
    There is no evidence in the film, however there is also no evidence in the films to prove Darth Sidious was the apprentice of Plagueis, which we later find out he was, and also there is no evidence in the films to suggest Anakin was conceived through manipulation of the midichlorians, which is theorised about quite a lot.
    I never said I think this is true, this is something that I thought about and decided was a possibility, and I think it is a possibility that Sidious was involved it certainly benefits him for Padme to die.

    This is just a theory I have I'm not trying to prove it!

    I just wouldn't be surprised that in a EU novel in the future we find out Palpy was involved, I think it would be a good twist, and make Vader and Sidious's relationship that bit more tragic.
  8. King_Piccolo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2005
    star 1
    If Sidious had this power, then why didn't he kill all the Jedi with it? Why resort to Operation 62?
  9. Darth_Infernous Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2005
    star 1
    Perhaps he could only use this on those not so sensitive with the force, I doubt he would have enough power to kill loads of Jedi.[face_thinking]
  10. Dezdmona Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2005
    star 4
    Padmé: I don't know you anymore. Anakin, you're breaking my heart. You are going down a path I can't follow.
  11. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    Sidious turned Anakin to the dark side. Anakin, as the Sith apprentice Vader, killed Padme's 'will to live' by force choking her on Mustafar while in a blind Sith rage.

    So in a sense, the premise of this thread is valid, "from a certain point of view."

    It is unclear what the nature of the origin of Anakin's fateful dream of Padme was -- his own premonition, induced somehow by Sidious or purely enlightenment bestowed by the force -- but Sidious deftly played his hand to Anakin's profound fears and by doing so, enabled those dreams to come true.

  12. Drac39 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2002
    star 6
    No I don`t think so,if anyone killed Padme it was Anakin
  13. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Not every mother makes children their number one priority. Tell that to all the children left in dumpsters, suffocated, tossed in ditches and abandoned or put up for adoption. Padme dies of a broken heart. Palpatine had nothing to do with it. He's too busy making sure that Vader lives too worry about her. Then word has gotten out that she's dead. So all he had to do well tell Vader and hope that Vader will stay with the Dark Side.
  14. Sidious_T Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2004
    star 4
    There is no evidence in the film at all that suggests this.
  15. THEFORCEROCKS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2004
    star 4
    Palpatine had nothing to do with it. He's too busy making sure that Vader lives too worry about her. Then word has gotten out that she's dead. So all he had to do well tell Vader and hope that Vader will stay with the Dark Side.



    Well Sinister maybe not in a direct way but he has wanted her dead for sometime. This time he just found a situation that he knew could cause dissension between Anakin and Padme. I think in the book DARK LORD, Sidious knew that the temple slaughter would cause problems between Anakin and Padme now did he anticipate her dying no but it definitely was icing on the cake for him.
  16. elric300 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2004
    Palpatine didn't have to cause Padme's death. Anakin's own weakness was more then sufficient enough to do that. One could draw a line from Anakin falling into darkness to his eventual attack on Padme and say that Palpatine had a hand in it, but it's a bit of a stretch and takes responsibility away from Anakin. It's a lot like blaming God or the devil for the decisions one makes in life. There's no doubt in the film that Anakin caused her death, whatever his intentions may have been. That she gave up is a direct consequence of his choices and actions. That's why the intercutting of Padme's death and Vader's rebirth works so well. When Padme dies, so does Anakin. The last and possibly only thing he truly loved is gone, so Anakin has no reason to wish to continue. Thus, we have Vader for the next two decades.
  17. TomPiltoff Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2005
    star 2
    Maybe not evidence per se, but it is definitely suggested to us. This Padme/Palpatine theory isn't.
  18. uwishuwereme Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2005
    star 3
    Do you mean Order 66?:p Anakin killed Padme in a sense,that's what made Anakin's fall so ironic he had good intentions in trying to save Padme, but he ends up killing her himself. It's was the grief of losing her husband,democracy,and everything she believed coupled with pregnancy and a force choke that killed her.

  19. dude4c Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2003
    star 3
    it's a nice way to tie things in but, i don't think he had anything to do with it because if he had this power to do it, why didn't he just do it in TPM. i do think the way padme died was lame, and i think the moderator also thinks so and that is why they started this thread.
  20. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    It would definitely take away from the important aspect of dramatic irony if Palpatine was really involved. Anakin helped to kill the one person he was trying to save. That's an enormous burden he has to life with, he can only blame himself.

    Though there are specific threads for this, the whole "losing the will to live" thing isn't really that hard to grasp. We don't need to invent other reasons to explain it. Losing the will to live doesn't necessarily mean she just gave up for purely selfish reasons, which would be out of character. She suffered a staggering amount of physical and psychological stress, enough to break most people. After Anakin turned in such a horrific fashion, like those who suffer from post tramatic shock, she just shut down. Her mind couldn't handle the guilt and horror and so it stopped. The babies were safe with Obi-Wan, Bail and Yoda.
  21. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9

    Where's it said that Sidious wanted her dead? Nothing in TPM. In AOTC, it was Nute Gunray who wanted her dead. Palpatine used it to get her out of the Senate. In ROTS, he never talks about killing her. Hell, Nute doesn't even care about killing her.
  22. JASTERSLEGACEYV2 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2005
    star 1
    well if you look at some of my previous posts you'll see that empeorer palpatine is my favorite and i believe him to ba a very near super genious, not to mention his super ability of the force, so following that he definitivley needed padme out of the way and seeing how he clouded the force around the corrupt jedi cuncil, he definatly could have modiflyed the force to attack padme and/or some how added some depressants that would make her loose her will after seeing what anikan did, because no one dies from loosing the will to live, if that were true there would be no one with depresion because they would be dead.
    it's possible that in the empeorer's grand plan that in a medical tests of the senitors or in the medical exams the docors were bribed to inject her with emotionaly activated, extremly strong, depresants that activate on a strong emotion (when she saw what was happening woth anikan for example, all part of his plan) and as most of us know depressants slow your heart rate so put them together you've got a grand murder plot that no one would suspect.
  23. zewm426 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2006
    Actually, in Episode I (TPM) when Qui-Gon is talking to Shmi, she explains how Anakin was concieved without a father. Qui-Gon then checks the boy's mediclorian count and we know what happens after that :) I don't remember the dialouge word for word, but if you have the DVD pop it in and skip to where they first land on I think Tatooine and Anakin invites Qui-Gon and Padme in to his home. I know that Qui-Gon and Shmi were sitting outside alone when they were discussing the boy.

    edit: I found this on some website. I hope it helps...

    QUI-GON : You should be proud of your son. He gives without any thought of
    reward.
    SHMI : He knows nothing of greed. He has...
    QUI-GON : He has special powers.
    SHMI : Yes...
    QUI-GON : He can see things before they happen. That's why he appears to
    have such quick reflexes. It is a Jedi trait.
    SHMI : He deserves better than a slave's life.
    QUI-GON : The Force is unusally strong with him, that much is clear. Who was
    his father?
    SHMI : There was no father, that I know of...I carried him, I gave him
    birth...I can't explain what happened. Can you help him?
    QUI-GON : I'm afraid not. Had he been born in the Republic, we would have
    identified him early, and he would have become Jedi, no doubt...he has the
    way. But it's too late for him now, he's too old.
  24. darth_zom Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2005
    star 1
    Figuratively, I think what the Emperor said to Vader was mostly true: "In your anger, you killed her..." or something like that...

    However, the whole thing was politically motivated by Palpatine, so he shares some of the guilt:

    If Palpatine had somehow been captured by the Rebels and put on trial at the end of ROTJ (here we go!), they'd have to try him for consipiracy and "crimes against the galaxy" or those sorts of things. Much like the Nazi leaders, he led others to commit acts of atrocity and seldom got his own hands "dirty." As far as I recall, he only directly committed one murder himself--that of Mace Windu.
  25. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    Who is the guy that Nute Gunray is working for throughout the prequals? I'll give you a hint: He wears black robes and had Darth Maul as his apprentice. Give up? It's Darth Sidious. Sidious is constantly making death threats against Padme via the Trade Feds, Maul, and Dooku because he knew what Gunray had told him, that the Republic will side with Padme which will interfere with his plans for a complete takeover of the Republic and the galaxy.
    Even when the Trade Feds have complete control of Naboo, Sidious ordered them to "wipe them out, all of them" and that included Padme and Sidious may not have mentioned that he wanted to kill her in ROTS but he planted the seeds in Anakin's head to see to it that he caused her death.

    Everyone who has tried to kill Padme have all worked for Sidious which is clear enough to tell us that he wanted her dead.
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