PT Could Sidious have turned Anakin if Shmi had survived?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by The Supreme Chancellor, Jan 24, 2013.

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  1. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Anakin's greatest fear was the loss of his loved ones, mainly Padme. Because he waited too long to act on his visions his mother died, and he believed the same would happen to his wife if he did the same and listened to the Jedi again.

    Palpatine used this to his advantage and offered Anakin the only way to save his wife from "certain death". Without the vital random event of his mother death though, would Sidious have been able to turn Anakin to the dark-side?
  2. Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Interesting question.

    If the situation is that Anakin never gets any dreams about Shmi and she is never taken by Tuskens and killed.
    Then not only will Anakin not suffer a horrible loss but he also didn't wipe out that whole village. Add to that, he wouldn't have made his pledge to not fail again and that he would stop people from dying and all that.

    Without this loss, Anakin would most likely be less obsessed about stopping death, nor would he be as alarmed with his Padme dreams. This would have made it harder for Palpatine to hook him with his promise of stopping death.

    But Anakin still had problems with the Jedi, they would most likely have told him to spy on Palpatine and all that.

    It is possible that Anakin would have stayed true to the Jedi. Afterall he did turn Palpatine in to Mace and without his worry about Padmes death and without Palpatine having a stop death power that Anakin wanted he might have stayed away. Or stayed away long enough for Mace to kill Palpatine.
    Of course it is possible that Palpatine might have held back with his reveal if he didn't have something tempting for Anakin. He might even have decided that he didn't have a good way to turn Anakin and decided to do order 66 and let Anakin die along the rest of the Jedi.

    Bye for now.
    Blackboard Monitor
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  3. King Terak Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2012
    star 1
    I think Sidous would have taken Shmi out of the picture regardless and placed the blame for her demise on the Jedi, which would have probably made his turn to the Dark Side alot worse.
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  4. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    Anakin's greatest fears would not be realized, and Sidious would have a much harder time turning him.

    Anakin felt an undeniable sense of duty upon finding out that Palpatine was the Sith, and almost took action himself before letting the Council know. No one knows, but I think Anakin's turn was the result of many convenient occurances that worked in Palpatine's favor. I guess that's just what destiny is.
  5. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    I agree, despite all the manipulations Palpatine had set up Anakin was still torn before making his final choice. That's why it feels so odd when he goes from second geussing himself in one scene to murdering Jedi without thinking.
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  6. Lord Chazza Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2013
    star 4
    No I don't think so. Sidious was always attracted by power. Anakin Skywalker had enormous potential and Sidious would not have been able to pass up the opportunity to take Anakin under his wing. This eventually destroys him when he gets obsessed with turning Luke Skywalker. I think Sidious knew all along that Anakin could be manipulated through love. Had Anakin's mother not died Sidious would have probably tried to kill someone like Obi Wan. Anakin was emotionally strained so Sidious would have found suitable leverage one way or another.
    Last edited by Lord Chazza, Jan 24, 2013
  7. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    he'd have found a way

    it just "worked to his advantage" it worked out that way

    Sidious ALWAYS has a back-up plan

    "The Jedi don't trust you Anakin"

    "only through me can you achieve a powr greater thabn any Jedi"

    And lets not forget Anakin supports someone wise to rule the galaxy "if it works"

    so I personally believe, that regardless of Shmi dying or not, Palpatine would have had a reasonably easy time turning Anakin
    Last edited by Sistros, Jan 24, 2013
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  8. Darth Ruian Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Even if Padme wasn't going to die, Anakin would have eventually been expelled from the Jedi Order since they are his children and having wives and children is strictly forbidden. So after he was expelled, Palpatine moves in and allows him to join the Order of Sith Lords.
  9. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I think he would have had a more difficult time doing so, although he might have found another situation to manipulate to his advantage.
  10. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Yes, Anakin had everything he needed to turn to the dark side before he even left Tatooine in TPM, and it's clear from the moment we see him in AOTC that it hasn't disappeared, but flourished.

    Even with his mother still alive, Anakin would still have his arrogance, attachment to Padme and lack of control/discipline.

    I'm not saying it's a slam dunk that he would have, just that he absolutely could have.
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  11. Ambervikings91 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2012
    star 2
    Yeah he could have turned anakin, he had planne don doing it well before his mother died anyway and anakin was already showing a ton of signs of that before schmi died
  12. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    For what reason would he join the Sith, if not to save Padme or Shmi?


    I don't think there is a definite answer on whether Palpatine could have turned Anakin if Shmi had lived or if Padme wasn't in danger of dying.

    Do most fans believe that Anakin would have turned no matter what? Because that's not the message I came away with after viewing the PT.
    Last edited by DRush76, Jan 24, 2013
  13. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I don't think he would have turned no matter what. Nobody is doomed from birth to fail. And there's hardly a point to the story IMO if he would have turned regardless.

    However, I don't think we can point to one single factor--Shmi should have lived, the attachment rule shouldn't have existed, etc.--and say that if that one factor were different, he wouldn't have turned. The reasons behind his turn were far more complicated than that.
  14. Darth Ruian Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Think about it, he gets expelled and is furious with the Jedi, so Palps takes advantage over his anger and "helps Anakin" get back at the Jedi.
  15. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I could definitely see that happening.

    Amending my last statement--if there is one factor significant enough to Anakin's turn that removing that factor would likely keep him from turning, it would be the presence of Palpatine in his life.

    Without Palpatine, all events going as they had, Anakin would still be fearful and angry but would not likely become a full-blown Sith, as there would be no one to show him how to do so. And I'm not sure he would act on his fear and anger by going on a murderous rampage against all the Jedi, had Palpatine not influenced him.
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  16. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    You're assuming that is naturally going to happen. The thing is we really don't know. Why is that hard to consider?
  17. Seagoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 4
    I thought I once read that Palpatine had Dooku pay the Tuskens to kidnap and kill Shmi... is this for real, or did I dream that up?
  18. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
  19. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Really? Has the EU really made Palpatine that omniscient?
  20. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    That's not real as far as I know.
  21. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Not as far as I know either, and I think such a storyline would make Palpatine ridiculously omniscient.
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  22. markdeez33 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 3
    I don't think so. She was the catalyst that put everything into motion. Padme was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was just too much.
  23. Seagoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 4
    Now I remember where I heard that - it was cut from the script, and Palpatine was supposed to say that to Anakin while he was fighting Dooku to make him angry. It MIGHT have been included in the early novelization...
  24. Darth Georgia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 1
    Losing his mother was huge. I can't say for sure.
  25. LordDlow Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Palpatine would have still figured out a way to push him further toward the Darkside, he can predict the future. Probably would have taken more work but in the end I think the secret marriage to Padme and the his problems with the Jedi Council would have worked in Palpatines favor.
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