Could someone please explain how AOTC is badly edited?

Seldon, I completely agree with your points. I love AOTC but I have to say that it has the poorest editing of all the films. IMO it has a great story but because of the editing, good moments are left out entirely and are instead replaced with unnecessary scenes. An example would be the family and bedroom scenes being replaced by the discussion with the queen, a scene that really in the end accomplishes very little.

 

Certain scenes are just completely redundant. The Queen room serves no purpose. Before the scene, the audience understands that the couple must go into hiding (it is established in the Jedi Council scene.) Padme reports everything that is happening (the stuff the audience already knew) and when the scene is over, we don?t know anything new. A complete waste, a simple excuse for us to see a new Queen, an old throne room, and the continuation of the useless babbles of Sio Bibble.

The Archives is a similar scene, it serves no purpose. We are fine with just Dex and the Younglings scenes. In those two scenes, we come to learn everything we needed to know. Obi-Wan?s incident in the archives is explained there.

Parts of the waterfall scenes have no purpose. Anakin riding that giant stupid looking thing is an uninteresting waste of time. Not only is the CGI in this particular scene horrible, the creature design is absurd, but it serves no purpose. I don?t have a problem with their dialogue about politics, but following that?the scene should just be cut out.

The droid factory action sequence is fine, but it lasts far too long. We don?t need to see that much of it, same with the creature fight. Just shorten it! Interesting Star Wars action scenes usually contain fighting and talking. The characters usually yell at each other and argue, suspense is built out of that. That is one of the things I love about these films, these scenes however didn?t contain much dialogue at all. To me that is a mistake.

As I?ve argued in the past, both the family scene and the bedroom scene should be in this film. Great acting, fantastic character development, and dialogue with great depth. Padme?s point about those who cannot adapt die, is a very philosophical one and one of my favorite Natalie Portman scenes. The irony is amazing. In ROTS, she herself cannot adapt to Anakin?s changes, and so she dies. The connection whether intentional or unintentional is rather brilliant. These scenes make Padme Amidala real, and human. It is a crime to omit them from a film which is lacking character growth.

Again, I love these films. What is tragic about AOTC, is that it has everything to make it great, it just needs some fixing. If my advice was followed from this post, I?m convinced it would be much better.

Changes:
Remove the Queen Scene
Remove the Archives Scene
Trim the Waterfall Scene, keep the political exchange, cut the rest.
Trim the Droid Factory
Trim the Creature Battle
Reinsert the Family Scene
Reinsert the Bedroom Scene

If this was done, the film would be much better.

-Seldon

 

ummmmm, bad editing? No! But I have to admit, the short scenes kind of got on my nerves. That was one very appreciated difference between AOTC and ROTS.

 

I would keep the archive scene, but put in the whole thing with the Lost 20 and then given Dooku a more meaningful death in RotS.

 

I wouldn't mind that as much.
Originally, I loved the scene (when reading the novel.) It was cut down in such a way that I didn't find it interesting (in the film version.)

-Seldon

 

Certain scenes are just completely redundant. The Queen room serves no purpose. Before the scene, the audience understands that the couple must go into hiding (it is established in the Jedi Council scene.) Padme reports everything that is happening (the stuff the audience already knew) and when the scene is over, we don?t know anything new. A complete waste, a simple excuse for us to see a new Queen, an old throne room, and the continuation of the useless babbles of Sio Bibble.

it serves a definite purpose. This is the scene that establishes that Anakin and Padme dont always see eye to eye (as it comes before the meadow scene). It leads into problems that come up in ROTS with them. Her not agreeing with him, him being arrogant with her, being extremely touchy, etc. Plus showing the old throne room with the new queen establishes a connection to the previous film, all the while showing that times have changed. and We do find something new, we now know that Anakin and Padme are going into hiding in the LAKE COUNTRY. It would have been fairly random for them to arrive and just show up at this random place we have never seen before not knowing its signifigance and why they are there. Maybe you just dont like Sio Bibble.

The Archives is a similar scene, it serves no purpose. We are fine with just Dex and the Younglings scenes. In those two scenes, we come to learn everything we needed to know. Obi-Wan?s incident in the archives is explained there.

The archives scene is further showing you the extent of the Jedi arrogance. 'If it is not here, it does not exist!'

Parts of the waterfall scenes have no purpose. Anakin riding that giant stupid looking thing is an uninteresting waste of time. Not only is the CGI in this particular scene horrible, the creature design is absurd, but it serves no purpose. I don?t have a problem with their dialogue about politics, but following that?the scene should just be cut out.

this isnt an AOTC editing problem, this is you not liking a certain scene for your own reasons.

The droid factory action sequence is fine, but it lasts far too long. We don?t need to see that much of it, same with the creature fight. Just shorten it! Interesting Star Wars action scenes usually contain fighting and talking. The characters usually yell at each other and argue, suspense is built out of that. That is one of the things I love about these films, these scenes however didn?t contain much dialogue at all. To me that is a mistake.

once again, its not an editing problem, I personally didnt mind the length of these scenes at all, but I agree in the DROID FACTORY scene, there should have been more dialogue, but thats impossibly since Padme and Anakin are on seperate sides of the factory, it still works. either way the dialogue really doesnt concern the editing of that scene The Arena scene was fine dialogue wise. It seemed kinda random to me that in the OT in the heat of battle people would be having conversations anyway. If I was being shot at I would be pissed if someone tried to talk to me

As I?ve argued in the past, both the family scene and the bedroom scene should be in this film. Great acting, fantastic character development, and dialogue with great depth. Padme?s point about those who cannot adapt die, is a very philosophical one and one of my favorite Natalie Portman scenes. The irony is amazing. In ROTS, she herself cannot adapt to Anakin?s changes, and so she dies. The connection whether intentional or unintentional is rather brilliant. These scenes make Padme Amidala real, and human. It is a crime to omit them from a film which is lacking character growth.

now you have found yourself an actual editing problem, although I disagree about the family scene. That scene seemed very very juvenile and to 'earthling' if you will. It was definetly NOT galaxy far far away-ish. Sitting down with the whole 'he's lying were STARVING!' and talking about boyfriends, and the women doing the dishes and gossiping and again talking about boyfriends. I was waiting

 

Seldon, once again I agree with you and I would possibly add a couple small things to the list of fixes.

1.Insert the dialogue that was cut after Yoda greets Padme, because (to me) it makes Padme come off cold and rude.

2.Not really a fix, but more of a change. It is when Anakin is having the nightmare about his mother. The scene as it is comes off being rather awkward, so what I propose is to trim the awkward moments of Anakin having the nightmare and insert a dream sequence(like what we see in ROTS) of his mother in pain. Then once the dream is over cut back to Anakin waking up.

 

"it serves a definite purpose. This is the scene that establishes that Anakin and Padme dont always see eye to eye (as it comes before the meadow scene). It leads into problems that come up in ROTS with them. Her not agreeing with him, him being arrogant with her, being extremely touchy, etc. Plus showing the old throne room with the new queen establishes a connection to the previous film, all the while showing that times have changed. and We do find something new, we now know that Anakin and Padme are going into hiding in the LAKE COUNTRY. It would have been fairly random for them to arrive and just show up at this random place we have never seen before not knowing its signifigance and why they are there. Maybe you just dont like Sio Bibble."

We don't need two scenes where they don't see eye to eye. As you stated, that point was proven in the meadow scene. Therefore it is redundant to make the exact same point twice. We don't need to be told they are going to the lake country. The audience knows that they have gone to Naboo to hide. They don't need to know it is the lake country (that much can be assumed from the physical setting) all that needs to be known is that they are in hiding in a remote area. We don't need that scene for the point to be made. It wouldn't be random for them to go into hiding at once. The Council scene makes it clear that is their intention. His personality traits seen in this scene are also seen in other parts of the film. You don't need this specific scene for them to be proven. In response to the ties to the previous film, enough are made that this scene isn't needed. This isn't about Sio Bibble.

"The archives scene is further showing you the extent of the Jedi arrogance. 'If it is not here, it does not exist!'"

That plot point is proven in a dozen other scenes.
Just look at "But Master who could've erased those files in the Archives, I thought that was impossible?" I don't know the exact line, but you get the point. Their arrogance is seen in almost every scene. We don't need the Archive one to prove the point yet again.

"this isnt an AOTC editing problem, this is you not liking a certain scene for your own reasons."

These are my personal opinions, I have reasons for such opinions. Based on the flow of the movie and in the interest of moving the plot along while keeping the depth of the film. You agree that adding scenes is an editor's decision, but yet you feel me cutting scenes is for personal reasons. They go together. I'll be addressing this later on.

"once again, its not an editing problem, I personally didnt mind the length of these scenes at all, but I agree in the DROID FACTORY scene, there should have been more dialogue, but thats impossibly since Padme and Anakin are on seperate sides of the factory, it still works. either way the dialogue really doesnt concern the editing of that scene The Arena scene was fine dialogue wise. It seemed kinda random to me that in the OT in the heat of battle people would be having conversations anyway. If I was being shot at I would be pissed if someone tried to talk to me"

Some of these scenes are taking away from the flow of the film. Long digressions of CGI showcases. It is within my rights to say this is an editing problems. The suspense and sense of action could've been preserved while trimming the scene down. Nothing wrong with that.

"now you have found yourself an actual editing problem, although I disagree about the family scene. That scene seemed very very juvenile and to 'earthling' if you will. It was definetly NOT galaxy far far away-ish. Sitting down with the whole 'he's lying were STARVING!' and talking about boyfriends, and the women doing the dishes and gossiping and again talking about boyfriends. I was waiting for anakin to pass her the 'check yes or no' note at the dinner table. The bedroom scene I agree there, it should have been left in. but only for the 'if you cant adapt..' plot line. I dont think it showed any further character growth on Padmes par

 

We don't need two scenes where they don't see eye to eye. As you stated, that point was proven in the meadow scene. Therefore it is redundant to make the exact same point twice. We don't need to be told they are going to the lake country. The audience knows that they have gone to Naboo to hide. They don't need to know it is the lake country (that much can be assumed from the physical setting) all that needs to be known is that they are in hiding in a remote area. We don't need that scene for the point to be made. It wouldn't be random for them to go into hiding at once. The Council scene makes it clear that is their intention. His personality traits seen in this scene are also seen in other parts of the film. You don't need this specific scene for them to be proven. In response to the ties to the previous film, enough are made that this scene isn't needed. This isn't about Sio Bibble.

It still sounds like you just didnt like the scene. This is the kinda scene where if it was cut, most people (maybe even you) would be sitting around saying 'they should have left that in the film'. Star Wars is notorious for redundant scenes, its practically a staple. Unless you have a problem with pretty much ever single council meeting scene, all the scenes involving re-configuring the signal in ROTS, and numerous other scenes, its kinda 'redundant' to complain about this one also.

"The archives scene is further showing you the extent of the Jedi arrogance. 'If it is not here, it does not exist!'"

That plot point is proven in a dozen other scenes.

well obviously it needed a dozen more because about half the star wars audience still doesnt understand the reason behind the Jedi's arrogance being a plot line.


These are my personal opinions, I have reasons for such opinions. Based on the flow of the movie and in the interest of moving the plot along while keeping the depth of the film. You agree that adding scenes is an editor's decision, but yet you feel me cutting scenes is for personal reasons. They go together. I'll be addressing this later on.

I never said adding scenes is an editors decision. I just noticed alot of your problems with the editing really didnt have to do with the so called 'flow' of the movie, but you not liking a certain creature in a scene, or not liking how much a character was talking, etc. Even though other things going on in thats scene were very important.


Some of these scenes are taking away from the flow of the film. Long digressions of CGI showcases. It is within my rights to say this is an editing problems.

some of the scenes take away from the film for CGI showcases? uh, welcome to the PT! all three films are alot like that haha. Its within your rights? dude chill, it isnt the court of law here. I didnt put you up on a cross or anything, i simply disagree with some stuff.


As I said, you can't call this an editing problem when you didn't consider the others to be ones.

well I did...so obviously I can. especially when I said why.

As you've stated, the family scene seemed real, it seemed human. Maybe it was two much like Earth, but maybe it was similar enough to convey a sense of realism. To validate the realtionship.

it wasnt real, it was juvenile. And considering every other scene in the film is extremely formal and contrived dialogue wise, it seemed very out of context. The relationship was pretty validated when they kissed, rolled around in the grass, confessed their love for each other and got married. Them playing high school really didnt need to further that. You should realize that since you seem to be the redundancy police. It was cut for a reason.

Lucas stated that this was one of his favorite scenes, it was cut for flow reasons. This has character development for Padme. It shows she is real, a human, someone with feelings and loved ones. We are allowed into her personal world (we usually only see her job.)

really? Man I guess I missed her talking about and laughing with Anakin a

 

"well obviously it needed a dozen more because about half the star wars audience still doesnt understand the reason behind the Jedi's arrogance being a plot line."

The Star Wars audience doesn't understand half the things in the films because they refuse to actually stop and think about the story. This isn't justification for repetion. If Lucas was to repeat everything the auidience didn't understand, the films would be twice as long. It is the audience wanting a film they don't have to think about. Too many people hate the prequels because they won't think about them.

To clear something up, I don't have any personal problems with the Queen scene. The acting isn't all that bad, and it is interesting to revist the palace again. In terms of the movies plot, I just don't think it is needed. Lucas stated that in the editing phase, he had to cut scenes out to shorten the film. To me, he should've kept some scenes, and cut others.

Your views on the Family scene are personal opinions. To you it seemed childish and foolish. Perhaps that is the point. Anakin and Padme are behaving as if they are teenagers. They are irrational, for the first time they are acting in self interest rather then in their personal duty. They are being childish and foolish and the scene reflects that. While Padme is a political leader, she is still just a young daughter. Her mother still worries, her sister still ridicules. It makes her very human. She isn't some perfect, sapient individual, she is young and in love. That is my opinion on that scene.

I also like the Fireplace scene. It doesn't deserve the amount of ridicule it gets. The characters are acting in a foolish and illogical manner, that isn't a flaw--that is the point.

Padme is wearing a black leather (looks to be leather) outfit in both scenes. To me, she has an additional layer in the dining room which she later takes off (between scenes) for the following part. This seems reasonable because the fire is giving off a good amount of heat.

-Seldon

 

Considering she was wearing something that fully covered her at the dinner table, then was suddenly in this tight leather corset...thats pretty 'out of nowhere' in the context of where we last saw them. There was no leaning into it, no progressing. It was casual dinner talk, with causal dress, sitting at opposite ends of the table. when you compare the two scenes, its out of nowhere.

I think you need to see that scene again.

She was not suddenly in that corset. She was already wearing it! The dinner scene she had it covered (still showing the shoulders I must add) with some dark feathery cloak (whatever its called).

That scene was also sort of a "forbidden" fruit and sexual moment. Anakin said "if Obi Wan caught me doing this, he'll be very grumpy". An opposite to the Adam and Eve episode in the Bible, so to speak. Then we see the fireplace scene, very suggestive, where both couple "expose" their thoughts.

Mind you, Anakin found out earlier that Padme was not attached. So he makes his move.

 

people, im not blind. I am aware she was wearing a cover up over her corset at dinner, I dont need to watch it again as someone mentioned.

Like I said, the problem is that you never see her remove the jacket, or see them sit down or ease into their positions...its just very awkward. the problem lies in the placement of the scenes, they are back to back instead of cut up. Otherwise it would have a more logical and easy transition

 

Like I said, the problem is that you never see her remove the jacket, or see them sit down or ease into their positions...its just very awkward.

Then I guess, we'll have to agree to disagree. It wasn't awkward to me. Besides, I don't think it will serve the purpose for them to do the whole "moving into position". It had to get to the point. Padme in particular was (and you noticed) simply covered what she wore already. It was not a complete costume change. But if so, THAT to me would be certainly awkward. Also it was already sunset and about to get dark.

 

It's not bad editing it's bad acting!

 

I liked that movie a lot better than Phantom Menace. And I like Revenge of the Sith better than Attack of the Clones.
I'm not against many of those scenes.
I would cut the Queen scene
I would trim down the romance.
The action sequences, and everything in the final act is well done. Leave them alone.

 

"Like I said, the problem is that you never see her remove the jacket, or see them sit down or ease into their positions...its just very awkward. the problem lies in the placement of the scenes, they are back to back instead of cut up. Otherwise it would have a more logical and easy transition"

Are you suggesting that they show her remove the layer of clothing? Padme changes clothes between almost every scene, we take it for granted as a passage of time. She changes off screen, I don't see how this wardrobe change is any different. It may appease the male audience to watch Natalie Portman change her clothes between each scene, but it isn't needed for the story. We must assume it took place off screen.

-Seldon

 

I don't mind the form so much as the execution. To my mind the digital matte painting of the Geonosis tower is so bad that it renders any artistic use of paralells meaningless. It's one thing to slightly confuse the audience for a moment for the sake of symbolism, but when you add that unusually bad matte to the mix, it becomes confusing for more reasons than it should.

 

Are you suggesting that they show her remove the layer of clothing? Padme changes clothes between almost every scene, we take it for granted as a passage of time. She changes off screen, I don't see how this wardrobe change is any different. It may appease the male audience to watch Natalie Portman change her clothes between each scene, but it isn't needed for the story. We must assume it took place off screen.

first off Im not a male, so watching Natalie Portman change would not do a thing for me. And yes Padme does change her clothes in almost every scene she is in, but none of these scenes are BACK TO BACK. Thats my point. It just seems that probably alot of conversation happened in between dinner, and the fireplace scene obviously because they were in a completley different setting and mood then they were at dinner. Yet, these scenes were back to back. They werent cut up. Im much more suggesting that they put another scene in between those two, then anything involving her merely taking off her coat. I never said just her taking off the cover up at some point woulda fixed everything.

but if they were gonna show the two back to back, they should have had it be just one long scene where they walk into the living room, sit down and theres some sort of conversational bridge in between the playful and casual attitude of dinner, and this overt sexual/awkward/tension of the fireplace scene. IMO

 

I never suggested that you were male or that her changing clothes on screen would appease you. I simply stated it would appease the male audience. The point is that she didn't change clothes, she just took a layer off. As you said, it is clear that time passed--therefore it doesn't seem unreasonable for her to remove a layer of clothing in that time.

From the difference of mood and conversation, it is evident that some time passed. There is no confusion over that, therefore I don't see a problem.

-Seldon

 

It looks bad to me. Its doesnt have a good flow, something you were complaining about on other scenes. It just doesnt look right. Thats my only issue.

its very obvious its some point later, THATS my problem. The scenes ARE BACK TO BACK, and theres no scene in between to distinguish later, and since everything about their demeanor is changed, as an audience member your kinda left feeling...whaa? wait, did I miss something?

I personally like the scene alot, but the intro has editing issues IMO, and alot of fans seem to have issues with the scene, with the editing of it being one of them.

 

Bad editing plagues the entire film, the intro is a bit rocky for that particular scene.

-Seldon

 

I thought the sandcrawlers were also matted? Then we see the tower at Genosis (symbolism included) matted as well. So transition isn't bad. Besides even the Cloud City scene in ESB was also matted. It didn't hurt then either.

 

I thought the sandcrawlers were also matted? Then we see the tower at Genosis (symbolism included) matted as well. So transition isn't bad. Besides even the Cloud City scene in ESB was also matted. It didn't hurt then either.

There's tons of matting in all the films. My point is that the particular shot of the Geonosis tower is,as I said "unusually bad." My point being that the mattes are usually outstanding. And the cloud city transition comes off of a shot of Dagobah, a completely different environment. We're talking transistions between similar environments here. my opinion is that if you're going to do that, make sure your mattes are up to snuff, otherwise you take a potentially confusing transition and unneccesary attention to it.
There are really only three shots in AOTC that I have a problem with, but that Geonosis tower is king among them.

 

So much of what you guys are saying has nothing at all to do with editing, but with writing and directing. "Worthless scenes" like the Queen scene and the droid factory sequence aren't the fault of a bad editor. Padme seeming ungrateful of Yoda is not the fault of a bad editor.

That being said, there were two big things that bugged me editing-wise...the previously mentioned "I'm sorry, I don't have a choice" moment and the moment right after Mace kills Jango in the arena. In the film (forgive me if it's a bit out of sequence, it's been a while since I watched it), it plays like this:
-Mace cuts down Jango
-The head goes bouncing
-The body falls
-Dooku looks shocked
-Mace looks FROM Dooku DOWN TO Jango

A decent edit would be:
-Mace cuts down Jango
-The head goes bouncing
-The body falls
-Mace looks UP FROM Jango TO Dooku (Simply reverse the shot, I've done it on my PC and it looks fine)
-Dooku looks shocked

There are others, but that was my biggest complaint.

 

My reason for disliking the editing can be best represented by one specific cut from the obi-wan jango fight. In the preview, there is a shot of obi-wan closing on jango while coming around the corner of the platform. Jango's firing and obiwan spins while deflecting shots behind his back. I think it was in three trailers. Movie has obi-wan deflect two shots from twenty yards then swipe at jango from one yard.
This simple cut of one and a half seconds removes the continuity of the fight, and disrupts my belief in the movie. Similarly, it is all too obvious when single lines or scenes are removed. I.E. the lost twenty. Dialogue in the movie is unnatural due to the placement of the cut, "Can I help you? Are you having a problem master kneobi?" The cut destroys the flow/continuity of the scene. while many of these may have been due more to george's plot changes, the specifics deal with editing to blend the cuts.