Could the U.S. become a Dictatorship?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Darth_Nemesis, Jul 6, 2002.

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  1. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    If you call raping and having sex with small kids free speech then it's time to get your priorities in order. Simple as that. There is no way in hell that the 1st ammendment should protect something like that. Sorry but that is my cut off point for free speech. Those are sick SOB's who need to be found and kept under wraps so that they can't do what they talk about into reality.

    Why would you ever in a million years defend these peoples right to do this? That is scary in it's own right.
  2. Grieve Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 1
    I'm not taking any sides, just pointing out that your comment showed that you do not think freedom of speech is a very good idea.

    By the way, I just jumped in on the conversation, and don't really have any knowledge of the event that your talking about.
  3. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    There is some internet site that the dumb ACLU is defending. This site condones and allows it's members to talk about raping and having sex with small children and in one case a member who was on this site went out and committed a rape and killing of a small child and said that the site influenced him to do it.

    I was responding to Saint of Killers when this group was mentioned.

    This is the exact reason why I hate the ACLU and will never support any agenda they defend or stick their name to. Freedom of speech folks only goes so far, and the talk done on that site is way too much.
  4. Darth Fierce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2000
    star 4
    ?The average age of the world?s greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependency; from dependency back into bondage.?

    - The words of Professor Alexander Tyler, written over 230 years ago, before the United States came into existence.

  5. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    "a member who was on this site went out and committed a rape and killing of a small child and said that the site influenced him to do it."

    Oh lord, are you one of those people who think's Ozzy Osbourne make people kill themselves and video games make kids shoot up schools? The guy that did that is a sick bastard and would have done it with or without the website.
  6. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    Interesting quote Darth Fierce
  7. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    So saint of killers you condone that kind of actions? Talking about it is just as bad as doing it for real. THE THOUGHT is there in their heads, so what's to stop those others who were on that site from making their words reality?
  8. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    So now you want to police peoples' thoughts?
  9. tenorjedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2000
    star 5
    Could the US become an Dictatorship?

    Not really. Checks and Balances and high visability pretty much keep the usurpance of power to a minimum. History tells us that shady stuff will go on but no president will go past 8 years, as it is too ingrained in our culture (yes we americans do have such a thing). The 2 times we even came close to considering past 8 years was with Washington and FDR but an amendment now keeps that from happening.
  10. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    If it's fantasy and no child gets harmed then yes, it should be allowed. If it's influencing those to do those acts, then no, it isn't. I may not like what they like, but I'll defend their right to talk about it if it doesn't go beyond just talking. It's funny though, when people feel their right to freedom of speech is being trampled upon they whine and complain, but when someone else's rights are being violated, and you don't particularly agree with them, then it's quite all right to abuse their rights. Now this guy who went out and did this crime should be punished. But the site has a right to exist the same as everyone else's site. I'll have you know that I do not support censorship in any form.

    If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.
    ?Noam Chomsky, 1992

    I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
    ?Voltaire


    Two quotes that always come to mind when censorship shows its ugly head.



    On topic, if the circumstances are right, then yes, it could. But I doubt it'll ever happen.
  11. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    Add fuel to the fire of demented minded predators out there and protect them in doing this sick act. Sorry but sell crazy someplace else. If someones rights need to be violated it's them. How can you sit there with a straight face and protect these individuals who might or might not one day go out and do the real thing, because they keep talking about it and talking about it. They will eventually do it, and if there sick enough to be thinking about stuff like that to begin with than there already half way there in doing the act in reality.

    Sorry but these individuals don't need to be protected under the first amendment rather need to tracked down and given medical treatment for a disease.
  12. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    I don't know how the system works but can the "president" just bribe every person that stands in the way of becoming a dictator?
  13. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    The 2 times we even came close to considering past 8 years was with Washington and FDR but an amendment now keeps that from happening.

    FDR served 13 years before he died in office. He is the only President to have served the longest in office and will be the only President to do so ever again.


    I don't know how the system works but can the "president" just bribe every person that stands in the way of becoming a dictator?

    He could, but it is improbable and a very high risk. Bribery is illegal. He would run the risk of being caught in the act, or his middleman being caught. Therefore leading to a Presidential scandal that could end up ousting him out of office.

    Now, if he got a really good lobbiest to 'convince' Congress to do what he wants, then the President could have a easier time of getting absolute power. Don't expect a President, in 8 years, to suddenly receive absolute power. Its not that easy. (Unless something drastic happens and he has the military behind him) He would have to start this bid for power when he first gets into politics. Just like Emperor Palpatine did.

    Even if he has a really good lobbiest, the President would have to cleverly twist the words of the Consitution otherwise the Supreme Court and that group that protects the Consitution would be after any Bill he tries to submit and claim it unconsitutional.

    Our Founding Fathers thought very carefully in the creation of our government and consitution.
  14. EnforcerSG Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2001
    star 4
    I am still woried that people will act like it is a dictatorship more than the nation offically becomming one. Maybe a President will be loved by the people and be written in? Then what?

    The government though, if it would try to make itself a dictatorship, would do so by getting people dependant on the government. Make them rely on the government for work or drugs or other stuff. Then, once everyone needs the government in their lives, most people wont risk the government taking it away from them.

    I dont really see that happeneing, but I see that more likly than the USofA becoming a dictatorship.
  15. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Add fuel to the fire of demented minded predators out there and protect them in doing this sick act. Sorry but sell crazy someplace else. If someones rights need to be violated it's them. How can you sit there with a straight face and protect these individuals who might or might not one day go out and do the real thing, because they keep talking about it and talking about it. They will eventually do it, and if there sick enough to be thinking about stuff like that to begin with than there already half way there in doing the act in reality.

    I'm not condoning their fanatsies or if they act on them. What I'am defending is their right to thought. It doesn't matter if you agree with them. I don't either. But I wouldn't take away their rights just because I didn't like what they were saying/thinking.

    Sorry but these individuals don't need to be protected under the first amendment rather need to tracked down and given medical treatment for a disease.

    I wonder what you think of the romans who instead of writing about their fantasies but acted on them. It's not really a mental disorder just a distorted sexual preference. Again. I'm defending their right to think about it, not act on it. And yes, I can say that with a straight face because I'd do it for anyone who were being targeted against. I may not agree with their views or politics, but I'd defend their right to have 'em.
  16. Coolguy4522 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    I just thought I would add one thing.

    From taking both American Government and Comparative World Governments, I think the US is the least likely country in the world to become a dictatorship.

    In France, a state of emergency can be declared for 6 months without anything but the President's say so.

    In Great Britain, any bill the Prime Minister puts on the floor becomes law. There is no written constitution to counteract this law, and it only takes a simple majority to 'amend' the constitution.

    Pretty much every other government is based on these countries, with the exception of communist countries, which are based on the USSR, but seeing how that was pretty similar to a Dictatorship, I don't see any reason to go there.
  17. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    Sorry but I believe in freedom of Speech but it must have a cut off point. Too burning the American Flag to talking about having sex with kids. Sorry but there has to be a cut off point and some sense of right and wrong. It's not right to want to have sex with kids and it's not right to burn the American Flag therefore it shouldn't be protected under the 1st ammendment. The same thing goes for hate groups. Why should these groups be protected under our constitution when they preach hate and intolarance? This is where the ACLU is way off it's bounds and the majority of the American people, especially those people who have lost their kids to sexual predators like those on those site will not stand for that kind of injustic to continue.
  18. Grieve Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 1
    FDR tried to go against the word of the Supreme Court at close to his peak of popularity, and he got burned by the public. I really don't think the United States will ever become a dictatorship, although I'm not ruling it out.
  19. TremontiFan23 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2002
    star 3
    Okay, been gone for a while, didn't think this would blossom as it has, but here's my two cents.

    From what I gathered, the website not only discussed raping small children, but also how to get away such acts if potentially caught. That is aiding in a criminal offense and should not be condoned by anyone, but it's our civil liberty... I guess.
  20. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    Sorry but I believe in freedom of Speech but it must have a cut off point.

    No. Freedom of Speech must NOT have a cut-off point, otherwise it isn't Freedom of Speech anymore. If you start to censore speech, you will eventually lose that right. Trust me, that is what will happen.

    If you haven't read Fahrenheit 457 and 1984, I suggest you do so. They are about America having lost its freedoms and the government controlling just about everything, and brainwashing the public.


    Oh and about Flag Burning. Watch the movie "The American President" it discusses the very same thing and gives a very good reason as to why it shouldn't be censored at the end of the movie.
  21. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    "No. Freedom of Speech must NOT have a cut-off point, otherwise it isn't Freedom of Speech anymore. If you start to censore speech, you will eventually lose that right. Trust me, that is what will happen."

    Why should I trust you when your giving me examples from a movie and a book? It is freedom since you have more freedom of speech in this country than you will in any other. However there must be and there are cut off points already. Haven't you heard that people can take things TOO FAR??? Free Speech is exactly the same way. You cannot let it get out of hand.

    "From what I gathered, the website not only discussed raping small children, but also how to get away such acts if potentially caught. That is aiding in a criminal offense and should not be condoned by anyone, but it's our civil liberty... I guess"

    This is why they need to shut down this site. They are breaking the law by aiding in these acts. You might as well say the site is like the getaway driver of a bank robbery. They are just as guilty as those who go into the bank and robb it.

  22. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    Why should I trust you when your giving me examples from a movie and a book? It is freedom since you have more freedom of speech in this country than you will in any other. However there must be and there are cut off points already. Haven't you heard that people can take things TOO FAR??? Free Speech is exactly the same way. You cannot let it get out of hand.

    Maybe you should check out those examples, no matter how fictional they may be. Those examples have a point, and is the point I want to get across. Or at least I'm trying with you.
  23. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    I've seen The American President and it's nothing but a fictional account and so is the West Wing. Yeah most movies should have a moral to them, but I will never support or condone anyone speaking freely about killing kids and getting away with it, and the same goes for flag burning. It's called good taste and none of those are in good taste at all and I will never condone them to be classified ever to have the freedom of expression protect them. That is a lame excuse to protect a criminal committing a CRIMINAL ACT. I would love to see you say that in front of a parents face who has just found out their 8 year old child has been cut into 10 pieces and raped, and tell them "well we could have WARNED the community about this individuals actions, but it would be in violation of his rights" Those parents and I would say you can stick those rights where the sun doesn't shine.

    I hope you get my point now. If you promoting violence and unrest then your no longer under the protection of freedom of speech, because your then putting people's lives in DANGER and I would sacrifice those rights any day of the week and twice on sunday if it meant keeping someone safe from harm.
  24. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    Btw, how the hell did we get from dictatorship to arguing over free speech?
  25. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    Sorry, that was my fault. Pig mentioned the ACLU and I corrected him.

    Or as he would say:

    "you had to jump in and defend the CHILD RAPISTS!!!!! You got the thread off topic and should be SHOT AND DEPORTED!!!!!!"

    ;)
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