Could the U.S. become a Dictatorship?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Darth_Nemesis, Jul 6, 2002.

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  1. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    CmdrMitthrawnuruodo

    Thanks for explaining...
  2. MadMardigan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 4
    I've just skimmed over this thread and aside from the Free Speech debate (my .02, once limits are placed on free speech it ceases to be free speech and becomes limited speech by definition alone) the topic of US dictatorship has always intrigued me.

    I remember a Government class I took in high school and one of the topics was Martial Law. The way I understood Martial Law is that it is a temporary dictatorship with few Constitutional limits (ie most control is given to the President and even protected free speech can be censored). To me Martial Law seemed to be a fascist fail safe to the Constitution. Once Martial Law is instituted what's in place to end it. Yeah there are laws and what not, but what good are those when a single person is given full control of a military that can squash any dissent that may arise.

    After the initial horror of 9/11 died down my next fear was the President instituting martial law and thus having full power which our system of checks and balances was put in place to prevent.

    Now of course I'm no scholar so my interpretation of Martial law is probably incorrect. If so, please correct me because I'd love to know more.
  3. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    ROFL@Saint of Killers


    Np Darth_Omega.


    <Martial Law>

    It can be removed once it has been activated. I believe the Courts and Congress could force it to be deactivated. And Governers can also deactivate it too. I'm not sure.
  4. tenorjedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2000
    star 5
    I forgot FDR served past 8 years but not beyond 2 full terms. If anyone was to ever become a dictator for life, it would have been him I think. I'm very grateful we have the 2 term limit. No matter who's in office.
  5. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    I forgot FDR served past 8 years but not beyond 2 full terms. If anyone was to ever become a dictator for life, it would have been him I think. I'm very grateful we have the 2 term limit. No matter who's in office.

    FDR served three full terms and a year of the fourth term, for a total of 13 years.

    A term lasts for 4 years.
  6. Moriarte Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2001
    star 5
    I haven't seen this yet, but I will mention another check and balance because of it's importance, that being the 2nd amendment. Sure we have the 3 branches of the government, the military, national gaurd etc. But as citizens not of the military or participatory of the government at large, having the right to own a firearm is a great deterrant to anyone trying to impose any imperialistic aims on it's citizens. The logistical nightmare alone is enough to dissuade any power mongers among us. That is unless the slippery sope method is applied, but most people ignore that or rant of my supposed paranoia. Mind you, a little is helpful. I'll be damned if I will be taken advantage of.

    Don't tread on me...or my person.

    Ciou-See the Sig
  7. Devilanse Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 5
    Go back to sleep, America...

    Your government is in control.

    America couldn't be a dictatorship...there's no percentage in it.

    We have what is worse than a dictatorship. we have...(shudder) The US Government.

    Or, to put it in simpler words....

    There's too many chefs in the kitchen.
  8. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    I hope for your sake you are kidding.
  9. Devilanse Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 5
    Please...respect my right to an opinion, and I'll give you the same.

    If you think the leaders of this country are working in YOUR best interest...think again.
  10. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Conspiracy theorist much?
  11. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    Next time say "the worse thing than dictatorship is....the leaders of the US. Government"

    Cause when I read what you wrote, I thought you were attacking the system.
  12. Devilanse Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 5
    I WAS attacking the system. I do have that right...to question the so called leaders of this country. That comes with being a citizen, doesn't it?
  13. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
  14. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    While I was in the car today I just realized something. This will probably also make me sound like a hypocrit too, since I had been against the possiblity.

    If the conditions were just right, a political figure could turn this country into a dictatorship.

    If you don't understand how this could happen, think about how Emperor Palpatine took over the Old Republic. Every single detail of his devious plan and what was currently happening to the Old Republic.

    Allow me to put it in a more Earthly context.

    It starts out with the Great Depression of the 1920s all over again but 100x greater than the last one. Unemployment is at a historical high.

    States are beginning to rebel against the Government. Governers are pulling away and using the National Guard to defend their boarders.

    Ambitious Governors begin to attack neighboring states, claiming said neighbor owed them a huge debt and that it would improve the lives of citizens of the aggressive state.

    The Speaker of the House takes advantage of the strife for his own political gain. He declares or gets a Rep/Sen to declare the current Presidency incompetant to lead the United States. He than becomes the President with a whole new cabinat of people that supports his ambitions.

    A civil war is on the horizon and the new President manipulates Congress and the people, through the use of Senators and Represenatives, to give him new powers to stop the civil war. But its too late, civil war breaks out and he manipulates the country yet again to give him more power.

    Right now the people don't care what is or isn't consitutional. They only care about themselves and living to see the next day as states fight each other, rebellion insues throughout the entire country and the President uses his new powers to create an army that follows him and his cabinat and fights the rebelling states.

    He has a silver tongue that persuades the public into believing his reforms are for the best. They blindly believe and follow him and before they know it, the Republic of the United States of America no longer exists.

    Instead you have an Empire.

    Sounds too fantasy?

    Consider this than. Adolf Hitler had manipulated his own government and people to give him what he wanted. He had a silver tongue that hypnotized the public and they blindly elected and followed him.

    It can happen here, but the conditions have to be just right for it to succeed.
  15. The Gatherer Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 1999
    star 6
    Very interesting subject!

    Check out this website, as to how this person believes a New World Order / dictatorship will be created.

    http://www.williamcooper.com

    I don't think that the 2 term limit is democratic... how is that democratic if you are limited choice?
  16. The Gatherer Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 1999
    star 6
    Do you think that Richard Milhouse Nixon is the person that has been closest to becoming an American dictator?
  17. Darth_Nemesis Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 3
    Yeah, I thought that was nixon's grand plan. There was more power in the executive branch than any other time in U.S. history, during nixon's term. It was also uncovered that Nixon possibly was going to call Marshall Law at some point in his term. Nixon was out for a Imperial America. I read that in my history book.
  18. ImperialFC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 1
    Since we're talking about dictatorships, I thought this story would fit right in:Article on Government Informants

    Link to TIPS site

    Frankly, this concerns me quite a bit. As the first article says having government sponsored citizen informants smacks of an undemocratic regime and to me could lead to some serious problems. Imagine if one of the people in this program has a grudge against their neighbor, they could say that something suspicious was happening and the person accused would be targetted by the government.
  19. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    I do believe that has already happened and is still happening.

    Remember the Communist Scare?
  20. xian-me Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2002
    Could America [Amerika, according to some people] become a dictatorship? Bloody well likely, and I wouldn't be suprised.

    A dictatorship depends partly on the need for the government, whether imagined or real. In SW, they 'needed' The Emperor because he did get rid of corruption.. just at a bad price to them. In America, there are plethoras of welfare abusers, and plenty of those who simply depend on it for day to day life. It feeds them. Everything runs on the government. Schools, programs, social structures. Many people of the US need it to survive, whether through laziness and geninue neediness [i've seen both.]

    All you need is one smart person to manipulate greedy politicians, and there you have it folks. You won't have me, however, becuase I plan on moving to Europe. :p
  21. phantom31415 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 1
    You seem to be forgetting the single most important reason the US will never be a dictatorship.

    300,000,000 US citizen's don't want it to. If anyone tried to take over, they would be rebelled against and forces out.

    This stuff about Nixon trying to take over is absurd. PPOR.

    The closest America ever came to being under martial law/dictatorship was under Lincoln. He cracked down on freedom of the press and did all sorts of unsavory things, even if he did believe it to be for the best. Nevertheless, we came through the Civil War just fine, even if there was a lot of ill will for a few decades.
  22. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    300,000,000 US citizen's don't want it to."

    That all depends, if we fall into a prolonged deppression, a dictator could be exactly what america chooses, like Germany did in the thirties.

    The point is a dictatorship can happen anywhere if circumastances are right, Isnt this a mjor plot point of the Prequels?
  23. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    And isn't that what I pointed out in my long discription back a few posts?

    If the conditions are just right, a dictator can take over this country with hardly any resistance to his grab.
  24. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    Imagine if one of the people in this program has a grudge against their neighbor, they could say that something suspicious was happening and the person accused would be targetted by the government.

    This is indeed exactly what happened in "the Red Scare" McCarthy Commie hunt of the 50's. A lot of film people used it conveniently to get rid of everyone from stars who refused to do certain projects to Jews. Phil Brown (Owen Lars in Ep 4) talked about this in an interview a year or so ago - there may be a link somwhere on TF.N - it affected his career and life deeply, and he wound up (I believe) living overseas in England for many years.

    IMHO, there are two subjects too many people know very little about: the Holocaust and the Red Scare. These are two great examples of how easily a generally decent populace can find itself participating in insidious evil. (No, the Red Scare did not destroy nearly as many lives as the Holocaust, but I'm talking about strategy - how McCarthy and others finagled, and how Hitler finagled.)
  25. xian-me Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2002
    Becoming a dictatorship wouldn't be as difficult as one would think.

    It would take a while - but all you have to do is play on greed. Promise certain individuals power, money, fame. Start trouble. Civil war, perhaps? Have martial law declared. And then refuse to give it up. America would be pissed, but how many would know what to do? Not many, if I'm to take the people that surround me everyday and think of them of the mainstream.

    And if the leader was charismatic, then maybe people wouldn't want them to leave. We've become dependant enough on the government to blindly trust and rely on it, and there are a lot of people who would give up certain rights to live a "good, clean life."
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