ST Could this trilogy end with a "dark side victory"?

Everything is relative. There is no ultimate good, no ultimate evil.

 

8 will end tragically. 9 will not!

 

Episodes 7-9 should end with a dark side victory setting the stage for Episodes 10-12.

Episodes 10-12 should be about the True Rebuilding of the Republic and the New Jedi Order under Luke and Rey while fighting either the First Order under Kylo Ren as the leader or the remnants of the First Order and the Knights of Ren with thousands of Knights.

If Episode IX ends with a dark side victory there should definitely be an Episodes X-XII but no matter what I want an Episodes X-XII!

 

we will see

 

Progress for the heroes can still be made in a dark film.

 

rise above what? the battle between good and evil isn't a petty disagreement. a system was obliterated, death on a galactic scale.
i really can't see the answer to that being "let's become a little bit evil ourselves so we can all play nice together"
that's not rising above, that's more like sullying(scullying) oneself.



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Like I said I'm not suggesting the eternal conflict should end in the final film. It can't. I'd just like whoever the main characters are at the end of the saga to recognize that whatever they do the galaxy will always slip back into the dark side.

 

I'd rather have no Star Wars at all than another trilogy of bringing down yet another empire.

 

Like you pointed out it would kind of go against what LFL has done to this point. It may be interesting if done right, but it would definitely be a break from the past six movies.

 

As much as it may tickle some one's fancy... and would be a interesting change from the norm... I think most people would see that as a unsatisfying ending. For the PT it made sense because it was predetermined and a story that had to be told... But, to end the trilogy in such a way... it's not common.

I can think of many trilogies that end in darkness and despair and forever leave you hanging. In Star Wars where the dark side succeeds the light side strives to create balance in the force. It's sort of the basic, expected, inherent direction Star Wars goes in...

If they ended the trilogy that way... it would have to be resolved in later films..When the light side wins people feel complete. ROTJ would have been enough... but they made more Star Wars movies... which is fine because VII was decent and generally well received...

It's nice to play with dark and lights, but in the end most people generally want an ending, closure... and villain endings don't typically give you that. Evil war lords ruling galaxies and mercilessly killing people doesn't really give people closure.

I don't think it's ever going to happen. It wouldn't be worth watching honestly just to see every thing go side ways and for all the good guys to turn dark. It wouldn't work very well in my opinion.

Moral relativism only carries you so far... it is a common theme in star wars, but the dark side is fairly obviously dark... killing children and murdering planets ... well if you want to make a case for that, maybe you should first go next door and kill your neighbors dog because you are tired of it's barking. People tend to take moral relativism too far... to the point where no decent human world could ever possibly exist.

 

I'm sure the trilogy (or this current story) will end on a positive note.

 

One could argue that Star Wars could have a Rhythm when The Trilogies end bad(PT)-good(OT)-bad(ST)-good(StST) it would highlight the constant back and forth battle between good and evil.

But a "bad" ending does not need to mean tragic. I would say the PT ended on a tragic note and just left you with a sliver of hope. Where is ESB ends in a win for the Empire but not really Tragic, Han was still alive our heroes just now had their backs against the wall.

If the ST ended with the reformation of the Republic and the Jedi Order, but not galaxy wide and the 1st Order transformed into a 2nd galactic empire with Darkside users in power it could work. It would end like WW2 and we would move into a cold war. But much of the galaxy would be free and the Jedi order rebuilding. But there would be the imminent threat of the New Empire seeking to reunite the galaxy under its rule. We would have a galaxy wide North and South Korea situation. Where both sides want to reunite, but only if it is under their rule. There would be militarization on both sides (they could even have no-go space as sort of a DMZ) and then we would have a true Star Wars once the powderkeg is set off(in EP 10) and we have a full blown intergalactic war.

 

that is possible
in TFA the New Republic is destroyed and there is barely an army because of the demilitarization with each sector defending themselves. So the FO has the advantage.

so if in IX their goal is to kill Snoke and they accomplish that while the Res give them a distraction to do so, it could lead to a stalemate. It's not like the Resistance is that huge of an organization, they most likely will suffer even more loss based on rumors in VIII. If you are smaller and able to kill the enemy leader that should buy some time, maybe even lead to an armistice.

so the ST ends with Snoke (and maybe Kylo) dead but the FO is still alive and the fight could pick up at another time, when someone defies the treaty. Maybe the SST, the Republic could be the instigators.

 

ya that is kinda where I was going with the ST ending in a Star Wars version of the situation on the Korean Peninsula, still at war and hostilities held off by an uneasy armistice.

I think it would be cool if the Resistance Kinda formed into a Holy Roman Empire type organization. A lose collection of systems that elect one of the system to lead the federation but handle their own internal politics. You could have "Free Systems" (just like the HRE had Free cities that operate is centers of trade and such between the different realms). There would be internal power struggles and a reluctance to unite against an external threat.

 

I actually prefer the armistice ending, neither good wins entirely nor bad,
Dark side victory is too much like ROTS and the last few years between ROTJ and TFA and good guys winning is too much like the OT.

if no one wins the war, than it will allow for the possibility of future stories where there are military powers already in place. Without anyone needing to rise from the ashes nor another Rebellion vs Empire type stories. Could lead to "Empire (New Republic) vs Empire (First Order unless they rename it the 2nd Order.)"

 

yep. That is what I was saying. So far EP 1 through 6 it has been civil war (clone wars) or just uprisings (rebellion). I want to see to galactic powerhouses on somewhat equal footing. Then we can really have "Star Wars".

Have the systems in the galaxy rally behind the 2 factions. The 1st Order would become a new Empire whose goals would be to restore the full glory of the empire (Interwar Germany type feel) and the Resistance systems could form a Holy Roman Empire type structure.

The New Empire would have strict controls across their systems which would allow for more internal stability, but the HRE type structure allows more freedom to systems which cause them to flourish and prosper, but also compete and rival other systems in the HRE type system. The New Jedi order would be needed to maintain civilities internally. Both sides would build massive militaries but the Empires would fight under one flag and would only have allegiance to the empire where as the Resistances would look more like Medieval Europe where the leader elected by the confederation of systems would call upon the systems to bring their forces to battle (each system would develop their own unique capabilities they offer to a fight). Each method has its strengths and weaknesses. The Empire would be able to bring their force to bear faster and their capabilities would be more formulaic where is the confederation forces would be more dynamic and offer more flexibility and the ability to use the right capabilities to meet unique circumstances.

 

It could but then my question would be what exactly was the point of the OT?

Because in effect the sequel trilogy will have basically broken those characters and then serve them up the ultimate loss in IX. Luke will basically be a giant failure, having had his inexperienced nephew walk over his "Jedi school" and getting beaten (presumably) in IX and basically overall, Solo getting killed, etc. etc.

I just don't see it working on any level other than "hey lets just be different ... because". I don't think it would be emotionally satisfying in other words in any way.

As much as I hate to say it, I don't really think a sequel trilogy was ever really necessary. The Skywalker Saga wrapped up perfectly in VI. I'll watch the films of course and enjoy them, but I think dramatically they're kinda boxed in by what they can do, there's only so many times you can play that whole "oh noez! A Skywalker kid is maybe going to go bad, or he did go bad" card before it loses all sizzle.

 

yeah, I like your scenario of a stalemate ending of the ST. This would make the Jedi very important, but they would be facing conflicts not only with the main enemy, but also with corruption of different local authorities within the republic. Then add the crime scene to this, so the Jedi are always in danger and stay smaller in numbers. This offers tons of different kind of stories to tell. A full victory of either the good guys or the bad guys would make future stories too predictable and we would face sooner or later another wipe out of the Jedi order and the republic.

 

I can only see an "armistice ending" if they recognize that the dark side in itself isn't evil, only its current practitioners are and a new school of darkside users arises who learn how to control the dark side and use it to better the universe. Emotions such as anger aren't evil by themselves, after all.

That's really the only way the millennia old conflict could end as the dark side is a force of nature and there will always be darksiders. Just killing them all isn't a permanent solution to the problem.

 

DON'T CROSS THE NEUTRAL ZONE!!!

 

No, that sounds like a horrible idea. We got out "dark ending" in the PT, the very last trilogy that they put out. And they spent a lot of time in-between ROTJ and TFA systematically undoing/destroying everything that the heroes accomplished post-ROTJ. They're all scattered and miserable at the beginning of the film. And then TFA takes it even furthering (destroying the Republic that Leia spend decades struggling to build, killing off Han, etc). And Episode VIII will likely be quite dark and have a not-happy ending. That's more than enough. The heroes need to have a nice payoff for all of the suffering and pain that they've endured, physically, mentally, emotionally, etc.

It's simple imo, The FO is crushed by the end of Episode IX, or at least weakened to the point that it's no kind of real threat anymore, and the heroes get to have some happiness for a change. And under no circumstances should there be ANY kind of "New Empire." A lot of people already complained about the FO being too much of an "Empire rehash." They try and drag that out into a THIRD trilogy, and even people who were ok with it here (like myself) will start to get annoyed. This needs to be the end of the Imperial stuff, enough already. Come up with something new for next time.

I don't know why actually letting the heroes win/get nice endings, or heroes just being heroes, suddenly became a BAD thing for so many people. Again, there should be a nice payoff if you're going to subject them to such much misery and suffering. Being "dark" just for the sake of it, does not make things "deeper."

 

I am just thinking big picture. To me it is worth sacrificing an oowee goey feeling at the end of EP 9 if they leave the galaxy in a complex state. 2 major factions no longer at war (or at least no open hostilities) each with there own issues. The threat of War is always there. To me something like this gives a huge sandbox for either Disney, novelist, fan imaginations, video games to play in.

EP 10-12 would be allowed be moved several generations ahead to allow for this norm to entrench. The are endless spinoff scenarios that could be placed in this area to bridge the gap.


If we close it all off in a perfect little bow if we ever want to go forward we will fall into the same situation we did between EP6 and 7, where they have to basically undo what we thought was a complete win and make it something that will be somewhat interesting again for a movie.

 

Well, technically PT -> OT -> ST -> SST was a Dark Ending -> Good Ending - >?Dark Ending? - > ?Good Ending?

 

Villain victory? I don't think so.