Council Chamber Scene - PALPATINE TALKING TO ANAKIN?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by LordVader66, Sep 29, 2005.

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  1. rodman9866 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    well palps didnt have to train him altogether in the sith teachings cuz anakin was flirting with the dark side most his life anyway. the tusken raiders, killing off dooku, etc. palps could have been talking to ani thru the force or he could have been remembering and thinking to himself. i know i wont lose sleep over it tryign to figure it out. in a month anyway maybe lucas will include commantary on the film and answer this question for all us so we can shut up lol.
  2. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    "You do know, don't you? If they Jedi destroy me any chance of saving her will be lost."

    Regardless of the 'real time' versus 'play back' aspect of this dialog in Ani's head, it is (from a certain point of view) true!

    If the Jedi destroyed Palpatine, Anakin never would have turned. Thus, " . . . any chance of saving her" was indeed lost, because Padme would not have needed saving (from Anakin).
  3. jedi_princess18 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2005
    star 3
    "You do know, don't you? If they Jedi destroy me any chance of saving her will be lost."

    I always thought this was something Palpatine said to Anakin right before he left to go back to the Jedi Temple. Since this would be the last thing Palpatine said to him, it would be more fresh in his mind.
  4. RolandofGilead Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2001
    star 7
    There goes my "Grievous was really a Tusken Raider" theory. :(

    It is strange to me that RotS breaks with the established Documentary Style of film-making used in the rest of the Saga. We hear what Anakin is thinking, we see his dreams. While it worked wonderfully to add drama and tension in what is most definitely the most emotional SW film, it is still so strange to see these barriers broken.
  5. poker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2005
    star 3
    Thats' how I see it too
  6. All_Powerful_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4
    When I first saw the movie, I thought it was Anakin reliving what Palpatine had told him earlier, and I believe it was originally intended that way. However, in movies, when you don't hear the dialogue anywhere else but that one scene, that is a strong indication that it is fresh, new dialogue and not a flashback voiceover. I think that it really appears as though Palpatine is giving Anakin that last nudge through the Force just like Vader does with Luke in ESB.
  7. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Well, we were told via Hyperspace that ROTS would bridge the Saga and it would also be different from them. This is how it is.
  8. Darth_Zand Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    Anakin was hearing Palps voice through the darkside. That is how he becomes hypnotized and does all the things he does. That is how Palps controls the senate also
  9. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    I thought about this a lot because of the "Did Sidious fake losing the duel to Mace" threads because if Palpatine was talking to Anakin, that would mean he there was a lot of planning going on in this scene. Also, this would go to show that Palpatine could have been delaying the battle with Mace because he knew after what he told Anakin telepathically, he would come running and see Mace standing over him.

    I thought that the scene definitely was an example of force communication, since there are many instances in the saga where this happens ("Use the force Luke" "Leia, hear me Leia!" "Run Luke, Run!" "Father" "You must go to the degobah system" etc....) and as many people have mentioned, the line of dialogue Anakin hears is different than anything in the previous scenes. So it made sense to me that was the case.

    Not so, says the novelization. In the novel it says clearly that he's remembering the line. Oh well. If that was the case, I wish that Lucas would have used one of the previously heard lines, then we could know definitively. Though since the novel says he was remembering, that's good enough for me.
  10. rbarcia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2002
    star 2
    Anakin's thoughts or dreams never match the actual dialog.

    Dream one:
    "Anakin save me." Padme never says that

    Dream two:
    "Don't give up padme." Obi-wan never says that

    and
    hearing palps voice. the words do not match either.

    All of his dreams and thoughts are off. Is this on purpose? this is not an accident.

    We never actually hear any of Anakin's dreams in AOTC.

    I really thought do not understand the meaning of why all of his dreams and thoughts are slightly off.
  11. JediPrettyBoy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2005
    star 4
    Hopefully Lucas will answer these questions during the DVD commentary instead of having Ben Burtt or Rick McCallum talk about useless technical crap during the very scenes about which we have plotpoint questions.
  12. obi1andreasen79 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2005
    star 4
    The technical "crap" is interesting and all...but thats what the special features disc is for right? Man...I was thinking the same thing JPB...They need to speak on some of the controversial parts in the movie. I can just see it now....it's the scene where Sids is talking about Darth Plagueis and Ben burrt is talking about how they got the sound in the opera house from an actual opera house which was the same opera house in blah blah blah...and then they will give the mic to Lucas who will sidestep the whole issue and talk about faust or something...
    But...I'm optimistic. Since the cats out the bag and the sagas complete maybe they will be a little more revealing.
  13. Atticus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    I wish they had more than one audio commentary track, one for each different thing, a technical track, a Lucas track, and an actor track (if anybody would be free to do it).

    Anyways, as for the topic, I took it as Anakin remembering what Plaps said to him. Liek stated above somewhere, when you remember an earlier conversation, it isnt exactly word for word, its a summarized version of what you remember. IMO it makes Anakin'sdecision stronger in my eyes, because its his decision, not Palpatines. Anakin thought it over and decided on his own. Then again, thats just me.
  14. BobaMatt TFN EU Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2002
    star 6
    Please show me a movie, or a book, or anything where a remembered sentence differs from the actual line, without there being a reason other than "Well, when you remember what someone says..." In fact, a lot of the content of Palpatine's speaking in that scene was entirely knew, so it's not as if Anakin remembered it. It's a movie, and in a movie, as in a book, things are not done without a reason.

    It's not done. Palpatine was talking to Anakin through the Force, like Qui-Gon does to Yoda, like Obi-Wan does to Luke, like Luke does to Leia, like Vader does to Luke...it's not exactly like it's unheard of.
  15. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    I thought the same thing, but in the novelization it says that Anakin is remembering the words. Take it for what you will.
  16. Atticus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    Umm...well, ROTS comes to mind...Is that good nough for you ALL-KNOWING GOD OF STAR WARS?

    Trust me, its settled, whether or not you want to believe and accept it is entirely up to you. The novel says its Anakin remembering a conversation with Palps. If you choose to believe something else, fine, just dont feed us your BS about how YOU are right when offical cannon says otherwise.
  17. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    The novelization is certainly indicative, but not authoritative.

    I wonder if Palpatine foresaw that he would need Anakin's help to survive the "treason" of the Jedi.
  18. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    I dont know why everybody just assumed that Palps was talking through the force....when I first heard it I thought Anakin was remembering a deleted scene or something.

    I mean he doesnt even show any kind of emotion or indication that he's hearing these words for the first time.

    And I'm sure that Palpatine said something else to Anakin before he walked away.
  19. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    Always in motion is the future. Though he panics and doesn't realize it, Anakin is seeing a possible future. It is not written in stone. The different versions of the dream show this. If Anakin would have stopped for two seconds and really thought about what else the dreams could mean, he might have noticed the discrepencies.
  20. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    Who's to say Padme didnt say those things? Could have been off screen. :p

    But as RS says, the future is always in motion. Any small detail can be different depending on the choices made by people.

    For me though, the line from Sidious in the council chamber is a through the force. Firstly, its different to what we hear. Secondly, if it was just a viewpoint in Anakins mind it wouldnt be worded the way it was. Thirdly, Anakins body language and response to it suggests that it is happening there and then. Forthly (!), it ties in with Sidious plan of having Anakin come to the office.
  21. LordVader66 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2005
    star 4
    i don't think you can look to the book for the answer. it is open to interptation,the author is expressing his. i think the book is off in other places too, such as that obiwan was allowing anakin to beat him, but anyway only the movies express lucus's true vision of star wars and going by what is in the movie, palp is talking to anakin through the force, there is no other explanation.
  22. EwokThatCried Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2003
    star 4
    LordVader66, I guess there was a pesky Tusken on board the Invisible Hand that Anakin didn't react to when he heard it. I mean there had to be; it's in the movie.

  23. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    Well, I think in this case Lucas had a lot of input into the novel; I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, he had line edit.

    Even if you just go by the film, it's still left vague and ambiguous.

    Just because the line is not exactly the same as any of the lines we heard Palpatine say to Anakin, this could be because Anakin is remembering it differently, or maybe it's a line that's said off-screen, etc...The movie is not conclusive on this point. I'd like to believe that Palpatine is communicating with Anakin, but it's difficult to say.
  24. EwokThatCried Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2003
    star 4
    LordVader66, thanks for that hilarious PM, man. :)
  25. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    Haha...I missed this...that's funny.
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