Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by LordVader66, Sep 29, 2005.
Just saw the new sig Yosh!! freaking hilarious!
Ha! Thanks, although it's not as true right now as it has been...I don't see as many Mace threads, at least not on the first page. I know, let's make one!
Anyway, back to the topic at hand. When I first saw the film, I was adament that Palps was talking to Anakin (If you believe this, it's easier to be a "yes" voter when it comes to Palps throwing the duel with Mace, which I wanted to believe as well). But, after seeing portions of the novel that pretty much spell it out that Anakin is REMEMBERING what Palpatine said, I figured that Lucas would have changed that if he meant it to be force telepathy, since this is an important point and GL had such control over what was said in the novel. But, I don't know. Like I said, in the film it's ambiguous. We are never really sure, it's not like this hasn't happened in SW before (Run, Luke; Use the Force Luke; You must go to the Degobah system; Father; Leia, hear me Leia, etc...), which is why I though it was Palps talking to him. But I'll defer to the book, until Lucas says different on the commentary (if he does).
I would agree Yoshi except in all those instances you cite, either it's Ben talking from beyond the grave, or the person using the telepathy is shown speaking the lines out loud and the recipient of the message is shown obviously reacting to what they heard and even responding out loud.
Fair enough. It just didn't seem like that much of a stretch to me, since Palpatine obviously has a very strong connection to Anakin, that they could communicate telepathically.
Plus, it doesn't have to be EXACTLY the same. For example, when Luke communicates with Leia, this is the first time we saw telepathy used by some one other than Ben. So, it doesn't rule it out just because it hasn't happened before. I'm just saying it seemed plausible. Especially since Lucas specifically said he was making certain scenes to be unlike other things we've seen previously in SW. (And he refered specifically to the scene in question, though I doubt the telepathy thing was what he was discussing).
Why would it be a stretch to see Palps pull something like this off? Because we haven't seen it before? Well, Palps did a lot of things that we had not seen before this movie.
My opinion... Palps was telepathically communicating with Anakin. He knew he was still straddling the fence and as it turns out this was the straw that broke the camels back. This is when Anakin decided to directly go against his orders. He was definitely in Anakin's head so it's just not a stretch for me.
Very well put! And quite the understatement! We'd never seen anyone kill Jedi that fast, or use such massive and overwhelming force telekinesis (PODS FLYING!!!)
Thanks Yoshi. I've been following this thread a couple of days and have seen that argument come up a couple of times. I don't get it.
i agree that it's just anakin remembering palpatine's words. because i like the idea that the only people we see talking to each other through the force are skywalkers. Luke/Leia, Luke/Vader, Anakin/Padme. no other force users have been able to do this. it's a family thing.
Qui-Gon talks to Yoda and Ben, though I suppose this is only implied. It's in the script though! (At least the part with Yoda)
I'm not suggesting Palpatine doesn't have the ability to do it. I'm saying that the way it is filmed is not the same way it has been filmed in other instances (not including Ben to Luke becaus eit would be pretty dumb to cut to a shot of Ben floating on a Force cloud, then back to Luke).
When Luke, Vader and Leia are communicating this way, you see alternating shots - first the one calling out, then the one hearing it.
In ROTS, Lucas never cut over to Palpatine calling out to Anakin from his office.
That's all I am saying. It can be interpeted both ways, but it doesn't only have to be telepathy, it can be Anakin remembering or mulling over the significance like he did about the Tusken slaughter on the IH.
When I first saw it, I immediately thought that Anakin was remembering something we simply didn't hear.
Same with his dream. We didn't see it, but it cut back and forth between Padme and Vader a lot. Anything could've been said.
How that can be used, is a way of conveying information without having to state it twice.
But then, it could also be Force-Speak. Wouldn't surprise me. But, I keep with the memory.
to me it depends on how you want to see it/anakin.
either anakin is merely being strung along and being helplessly influenced, or its the beginning of anakin decided what he is going to to (in his mind and thoughts)
so it may depend on the level of responsibility you want to assign anakin
i tend to think sidious was not talking to him and if the words dont match up exactly, i can argue that anakin is yet again engaging in selective hearing.
Anakin was replaying Palpatine's words in his head and his interpretation of those words.
Bad Editing, that's it. Bad Editing. they probably recorded multiple dialog tracks. and when it was Edited , nobody noticed that it was not continuity correct. Lucas could easily let something like that slide.
It's like that in the script. It wasn't bad editing. It was intentional.
It was intentional. The lines and even the delivery tones that Palpatine gives are completely different. No one remembers entire sentences of dialogue in a Star Wars movie. GL never takes us too far in their heads.
Bad editing? There is NO bad editing in that scene. In fact that whole scene is some of Lucas' best filmmaking to date. The sunset, the score, the tears and emotions between Anakin and the soft cuts to Padme and the voice of Palpatine murmering in his head = GENIOUS.
It's like that in the script. It wasn't bad editing. It was intentional.
Bad editing? There is NO bad editing in that scene. In fact that whole scene is some of Lucas' best filmmaking to date. The sunset, the score, the tears and emotions between Anakin and the soft cuts to Padme and the voice
I agree, my assesment of bad editing ,was based on my bad ^^^.
That is NOT to say that GL let some bad editing slide but just not here. Sith got a few scenes. Empire got some (after GL tinkered on it), Phantom Menace (how long is that damn podrace?) and Clones (dont even get me started on the duels). They outta have that **** up for film editing 101.
put that joint down George and go check on Ben dammit...
I just don't see how you could consider it bad editing. this was one of the most important scenes in the movies, it has to be correct. Just watching the movie, you would think anakin is remember because he really doesn't react to hearing Palp speak to him through the force, however if he was just remembering it would make sense for him to summerize what palp had said to him in palp's voice. if it was anakin's voice that you hear in the scene there would be no question that he was remembering, that fact that palp's voice is used makes me lean toward palp talking to him through the force.
I think he was just remensing on what Palpatine sayed to him earlier.
Emporer Gerner Dark Lord of the Sith
From [link=http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/anakinskywalker/] the OS Databank: Anakin. [/link]
Anakin reported the Chancellor to Mace Windu, earning the Jedi Master's trust. Windu brought a team of capable Jedi warriors to arrest the Chancellor, but he refused to let Anakin come along. Left alone to stew in his tempestuous thoughts, Anakin realized that Palpatine could be his only chance at saving PadmÃ©. He rushed to the Chancellor's office, to discover that Mace Windu was about to kill the Sith Lord.
It's not a telepathic message, it's just Anakin stewing in his "tepmestuous" thoughts. In otherwords, Anakin is imagining Palpatine saying this to him. It's not really Palpatine.
Damn you Sand Crawler... doing research to find an answer
I thought it was him remembering something that happened offscreen.
That force telepathy stuff never sounded right to me anyway.
Yes, and it took another leg out from under the "Sidious faked the entire fight with Mace" arguement. Now that we know it's not Palpatine trying to bait Anakin but Anakin's thoughts and decisions alone, there is no reason for Palpatine to be "stalling" until Anakin got there. He never knew he was coming in the first place....not to mention that Lucas said that Mace "always" overpowered Palpatine in every revision of the scene.