Council Chamber Scene - PALPATINE TALKING TO ANAKIN?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by LordVader66, Sep 29, 2005.

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  1. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    [face_thinking] Ahh the 'yes' voters.

    Watching them debate was sad.
    They just kept reaching and reaching

    tsk tsk tsk[face_shame_on_you]


    It was like watching an old, one legged man trying to win an ass kicking contest.
  2. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Guys, let's not bring that debate back up.
  3. Carnage04 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2005
    star 5
    In my mind, Palpatine was SOOOOO far into Anakin's head already that he didn't even need to try to talk to him. Everything that Palpatine had said was embedded so deeply into the thoughts of Anakin that there was no need to project his thoughts.

    Carnage
  4. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    I know that it's not supposed to be Anakin hearing Palpatine's voice (and I never thought it was supposed to be) but does anybody know the origin of the dialogue or why/when Ian recorded it??:confused:

    Was it dialogue from the original scene when Sidious simply made the "offer" and Anakin accepted?(y'know, when Anakin was there when Mace arrived) Or did Ian record this specifically for this new version of the scene?
  5. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    There is no repetition of the dialogue in the final draft of the screenplay. Here is what's in there.


    ANAKIN: "I am going to turn you over to the Jedi Council."

    PALPATINE: "Of course you should. But you're not sure of their intentions, are you? What if I am right and they are plotting to take over the Republic?"

    ANAKIN: "I will quickly discover the truth of all this."

    PALPATINE: "You have great wisdom, Anakin. Know the power of the dark side. The power to save Padme."

    ANAKIN stares at him for a moment.
    PALPATINE turns and moves to his office.


    PALPATINE: (continuing) "I am not going anywhere. You have time to decide my fate. Perhaps you'll reconsider and help me rule the galaxy for the good of all . . ."

    PALPATINE sits behind his desk.

    And the script just describes the voice over as simply that. No telepathy, no memory. Just Anakin thinking. Then there's also Padme repeating what she said before going out into the arena, but I believe that's supposed to be a memory. It's not included in the film.
  6. JASTERSLEGACEYV2 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2005
    star 1
    really what it is, is anikan remembering what palpatine said not palpatine talking through the force.
  7. G-FETT Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Astonishingly good moment, when we hear Palpatine talking to Anakin. Imagine having the devil literally inside your head. Amazing. =D=
  8. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    :confused: Uhh...G-FETT I dont think he was talking to Anakin, that was supposed to be in Anakin's head NOT a telepathic communication.

    (I thought that was confirmed?)

    I'm talking about was that dialogue from a deleted scene or did he record that simply for that scene?
  9. G-FETT Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    To my knowlage its never been confimed one way or the other (whether Palpatine is communicating with Anakin through the Force) But it doesn't really matter. Whether its a real voice, or Anakins imagination, the result is the same, Palpatine IS inside his head. Shifting him closer and closer to edge...
  10. jedi_jacks Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2005
    star 4
    After all the force communications going on in the classic trilogy, I gotta say it was a force communication. Luke even reached Leia and neither were well trained. The only thing is, we don't see much of that going on in the prequils, so it makes it look a little more questionable.
  11. brook_33 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2003
    star 4
    That makes sense to me.
  12. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4

    jedi_jacks, you didnt see this from the OS?:confused: .........

  13. G-FETT Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    OK, two points about that.

    1. Firstly the OS does NOT have the final say on all these issues. The final say goes to George Lucas and to my knowlage he's never commented on this one way or the other? All the OS proves is that's what Pablo Hidalgo (or whoever wrote that) believed happened. I mean, at one point the OS actually said that Padme lived out her days in hiding on Alderaan.

    2. Whether its a real voice or not, the effact is the same. Palpatine IS inside Anakin's head, be it literal or not.
  14. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    I don't think it's a telepathic message. In TESB, we see all the Skywalkers react. We see Vader speak and then we see Luke react to it. We see Luke call out to Leia and we see her react. We don't see Palpatine speak to Anakin.
  15. Kirk_Kanos Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2006
    I think G-Fett here is right, it does not really make a difference how the thoughts came to be in Anakin's head, be it by telepaty or through his own memories, hell I'm sure a Sith lord would be quite good at "slight of hand" and it would have been easy with those robes to slip him a note or something. But if it was through telepaty which is a valid arguement, was Padme's live ever in danger through child birth or was the dream/nightmare a telepathic image sent from Sidious to Anakin.

  16. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    was Padme's live ever in danger through child birth or was the dream/nightmare a telepathic image sent from Sidious to Anakin

    :rolleyes: See this is something else that becomes an option if Sidious can "talk to Anakin" using the force.

    Then people start to question the legitamacy of Anakin's dreams......were they real or did Sidious plant them?[face_not_talking]

    I seriously doubt this is a telepathic message.[face_talk_hand]
  17. bad4good Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2006

    With all due respect isn't this sort of a cop out response? I mean what?....If Lucas dosen't comment on something then the OS is officially wrong? Am I supposed to overlook the fact that the OS as well as other sources were wrong before the saga was complete, but have since been updated and are now accurate? I mean saying the OFFICIAL SITES information is invalid is laughable to me.
    What about those who don't cling to the Quotes of Lucas like they were holy scriptures? If they want to know the answer to a question and get the answer from the site do you think they will ever realize or care that Lucas did not "officially" give the answer?
    Speaking of literal or not...I feel the example given about ESB debunks the idea that Palaptine was speaking to Anakin in Sith. If Lucas wanted the audience to know Palps was communicating with Anakin he would have presented it the same way he did in ESB.It was not telepathic. This Idea to me is just as much Imaginative wishful thinking as The Idea that Palpatine faked a loss to Mace Windu.
  18. vadersmyfather Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 2005
    star 1



    With all due respect isn't this sort of a cop out response? I mean what?....If Lucas dosen't comment on something then the OS is officially wrong? Am I supposed to overlook the fact that the OS as well as other sources were wrong before the saga was complete, but have since been updated and are now accurate? I mean saying the OFFICIAL SITES information is invalid is laughable to me.

    I suspect even if Lucas does say something there are those who would say HE doesn't have the final say and it's open to interpretation.

    Just because Lucas hasn't confirmed is not an excuse for not knowing the logical answer.

    I don't argue Obi is made of cheese 'because Lucas hasn't said one way or the other'.


    Speaking of literal or not...I feel the example given about ESB debunks the idea that Palaptine was speaking to Anakin in Sith. If Lucas wanted the audience to know Palps was communicating with Anakin he would have presented it the same way he did in ESB.It was not telepathic. This Idea to me is just as much Imaginative wishful thinking as The Idea that Palpatine faked a loss to Mace Windu

    Star Wars is aimed at all ages and as such things are made patently obvious. It has to be for all to understand.

    As Hitman says, had Sidious been speaking to Anakin then it would have been made plainly obvious.

    It's a simple scene of Anakin mulling things over in his head, it's HIS decision, his final decision, to go and stop Mace.

    The use of Sidious, is so that the audience understands what he's thinking and why he makes the decision at that point, a decision many of us might have made.

    It's not showing us Sidious's telepathic abilities.
  19. jedi_jacks Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2005
    star 4
    the OS quote doesn't resolve it completely. I'm not sure if force communication can be ruled out by anyone (except GL :)) in that scene. I mean, it was new dialogue! It's just as hard to explain that it isn't a force communication.

    It doesn't mention the bond between Padme and Anakin that we see in AotC and RotS which ultimately (maybe) leads to Padme's mysterious death. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist either. In the chambers scene, Padme and Anakin seem connected, but there's no mention about that either. Something's going there, whatever it is, the OS doesn't clear that up either. Maybe Anakin *couldn't* live without her, I don't know.

    Maybe Sidious contacts Anakin before he was "Left alone to stew in his tempestuous thoughts, Anakin realized that Palpatine could be his only chance at saving Padmé." If it said, "left alone from Sidious," then I'd cave.
  20. G-FETT Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    :eek:

    Well thats me well and truely put in my place! [face_laugh]
  21. Kirk_Kanos Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2006

    Seriously doubt it yes, but if this is the way of thinking it can not be dismissed as not being possibly.
  22. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    With all due respect isn't this sort of a cop out response? I mean what?....If Lucas dosen't comment on something then the OS is officially wrong? Am I supposed to overlook the fact that the OS as well as other sources were wrong before the saga was complete, but have since been updated and are now accurate? I mean saying the OFFICIAL SITES information is invalid is laughable to me.
    What about those who don't cling to the Quotes of Lucas like they were holy scriptures? If they want to know the answer to a question and get the answer from the site do you think they will ever realize or care that Lucas did not "officially" give the answer?
    Speaking of literal or not...I feel the example given about ESB debunks the idea that Palaptine was speaking to Anakin in Sith. If Lucas wanted the audience to know Palps was communicating with Anakin he would have presented it the same way he did in ESB.It was not telepathic. This Idea to me is just as much Imaginative wishful thinking as The Idea that Palpatine faked a loss to Mace Windu.



    This Idea to me is just as much Imaginative wishful thinking as The Idea that Palpatine faked a loss to Mace Windu

    [face_laugh]

    Exactly.

    I really cant understand how so many people can watch the same movie(s), listen to the director's commentary, and then STILL come up with so many different perceptions of a scene.:confused:

    [face_tired] This is not complicated....why do people insist on thinking that we can go from "Mesa donn dink so" to "Sidious' master plot that would require 50 viewings, a dissection of the english language, and a bottle of 151 Bacardi Rum" to see.o_O

    He wasnt "talking to" Anakin and he didnt "intentionally throw his saber out the window" against Mace.

    You guys have "interesting" imaginations (to say the least) but dont be so "set in your ways" and think that just because things are not the way you thought they should be that you have to twist things around and make it legit.

    This is a CHILDRENS MOVIE.....if it's not obvious to anybody that's graduated from Kindergarten then it's probably not there.

    Palpatine IS NOT a clone of Sidious.
    Mace DID NOT order the clones.
    Obi-Wan/Sidious IS NOT having an affair with Padme.
    Sidious DID NOT plan on losing to Mace.
    and NO...Sidious WAS NOT communicating with Anakin.

    [face_coffee]
  23. Dezdmona Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2005
    star 4
    After SKIMMING this thread, it seems to have been derailed about how the thought got into Anakin's rather than the fact that it did.

    The important thing to me is Anakin's understanding of and his response to the concept of:

    You do know, don't you? If the Jedi destroy me any chance of saving her will be lost.

    Anakin's initial response upon learning that Palpatine is the Sith Lord they have been looking for was the Jedi thing to do.

    Upon reflection, his fear takes over and he understands that if the Jedi kill Palpatine, his dreams of Padmé dying will be realized, so he takes action to prevent the Jedi from destroying Palpatine.

    Thus, Anakin derails the Prophecy, breaks Padmé's heart, and all chance of saving her is lost...
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