CR in Flux

Discussion in 'Milwaukee, WI' started by Mauler_II, Oct 4, 2002.

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  1. solo414 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2002
    star 4
    I'm off for a day and a half and *wow*.
    ***SO MUCH FOR THE FIRST AMENDMENT***
    Since when is it an offense to have an argument?! :mad:

    Tom- I'm sorry you lost your CR position for speaking your mind. You've done a great job as CR, no matter what the screw jobs upstairs say.

    Mods and others- If you feel it necessary to disrespect a member of this FF, do it somewhere else. I, for one, won't stand for you putting one of my good friends down. And if you're a Mod who's doing this, you should lose YOUR position. It is inappropriate for someone "in charge" (and I use the term loosely) to disrespect others. POST BY THE RULES YOU'VE CREATED AND INFORCE, HYPOCRITES. :mad:

    If that post seems harsh for my personality (and it does), so be it. Being demoted for a simple argument is BS. I guess this will be my first Dark Side post. [face_devil]

    EDIT: (wow...this *is* a nasty post.)
  2. Carter-TFN Ex-Staff, Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2001
    star 4
    Cetera, BYOB was not banned.
  3. BYOB_Kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2000
    star 5
    Wow... I'd better not cross Meghan!
  4. Cetera Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2000
    star 2
    Demoted. My bad. Mistaken use of improper word. It still shouldn't have happened, IMO.
  5. BYOB_Kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2000
    star 5
    No one has taken me up on the offer to have my user notes made public so my friends can see what a dirty sinner I am. I guess we'll just have to assume that no such record exists. ;)
  6. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    Why does FF continue to associate with TFN if TFN won't even let them choose their own leaders? I think FF in general should go the way of FFUK and leave TFN behind until/unless the administration stops sucking so hard.
  7. ToxicNed Grand Poobah of Madison WI - FF CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    May 2, 2002
    star 4
    Okay, as a casual reader of the threads here, former resider of the Milwaukee area, and knowing only Bishop76 and jedihexer out of the Milwookie Council, I'd like to toss in my two cents worth. I think the demotion based off of the thread in question is f---ing ridiculous. He started off with a good point. The point wasn't understood. He then continues forth validating said point. It's countered with "This is a SW board." BYOB continues forth with more examples. Was it done tactfully? Not exactly, but one can only go so far by coaxing one to see the point; one eventually has to show the point with a nice hard thwack to the head.

    Do I know BYOB? Not at all. Do I realize that he's being sarcastic in a good portion of his threads? Most certainly. Just because some people can't handle some sarcasm and admit when their "proof" or "points" aren't very well supported logically, they penalize the person who is helping them to understand and see the other side of things. And for this bull, I offer support behind BYOB.
  8. TwistyMaeSkywalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2000
    star 2
    I'm with the rest of the Council on this- Tom, you've got my support. You've been a fantastic CR, and one of the most visible people in the whole group. You come to almost anything the group does, even if it's just to offer a wise crack or two and hang out.

    I understand why some people could find Tom offensive. Yes, sometimes he's tactless and blunt, but only when no one else will speak up to be the voice of reason. He says the thing that everyone else is thinking, and I don't think anyone should be punished for that.

    And who is this administration you speak of? Why have we never seen them, except when someone messes up? We're all human, we make mistakes. Deal with it and move on. Tom (and occasionally Bobafemme and Sebulba-X) is the only form of authority that ever graces this corner of the boards, and I say he stays.

    (Edit: Does anyone else think that Jeff's sig is oddly appropriate at this particular moment?)
  9. Bobafemme FF Jedi Council Member, Chicago IL RSA Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2000
    star 5
    Unfortunatley,he cannot stay as a CR. The FF and TFN boards are shared. We have to abide by the TOS set up for the boards. Leader cannot be baiting, trolling, or flaming. BYOB was on probation for previous actions (and ban in July) through the end of the year. He broke that on the JC boards. I know he's not been demoted for FF infractions, so it would seem that it shouldn't effect his FF duties. However, as a leader, any VIP, RSA, or mod, is held up to a stricter standard. Leaders cannot be baiting, flaming, trolling in any forum of the TFN or FF boards. BYOB would rather weild his wit and sarcasm. That's his choice to do so, but then he can't be an example to follow for minding the TOS. That does not mean he cannot participate in whatever things MC and he feels he should in MC. It means he cannot be a VIP (which means CR) on the boards.
  10. TwistyMaeSkywalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2000
    star 2
    But the question is, if he continues on as normal, without the VIP status, will he be banned anyway?
  11. BYOB_Kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2000
    star 5
    I have yet to deduce where exactly I flamed, baited, or trolled. And no one, least of all Rox, has offered the slightest clue.

    I did nothing wrong. I will not apologize. I will not take back my words.



    But hey, here's the funny picture of the day:
    [image=http://www.all-about-tom.com/images/TheTruth.gif]

    I made it myself from a screenshot of this.
  12. Outlander_ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2002
    star 2
    Jeez, I don't hit the boards for a few days and look what I miss.

    Tom, first of all I think you've done a fine job as CR here. I thank your for your service to our group. It's sad that things can get so blown out of proportion on a board about some movies.

    Maybe Tom was a little "non pc" but get over it. A little political incorrectness from time to time is a good thing. It keeps people on their toes, and makes you think.

    Nuts
  13. Skywalker1138 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2002
    star 3
    I just don't get it. Tom's our CR not the "Fan Force Universe's..." and how demoting his rank is going to "control" anything is frankly beyond me. I have to wonder how mature and adult the fan force online "control-administration" are here sometimes, and try to understand how certain people can be so easily offended. It really isn't the true way of things or the path of the light. Or, as BWing53 puts it "A Jedi shall not know anger. Nor hatred..." This "Demotion" affects us adversly and does change anything with those who initiated it.

    So, I'll go on with the newsletter and leave the judging to those who find themselves worthy of it.

    Just remember, we're supposed to be a club! How are we going to ever hold it together when our greatest reinforcements are being demolished?

    There are very few "regulars" here and even fewer "participants" but of those, BYOB_Kenobi has always been both.

    I hold to this statement.
  14. jedihexer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2002
    star 2
    I now have to speak up again...

    As the president of this group I have to listen to lots of things, but this is about as stupid as they get.

    I (as President) would like someone from the Fan Force to send me a complete list of items Tom has done wrong or is accused of. I also would like to see the links, or threads they are attched to.

    I play fair, and by the rules...but this is just bashing! Until I see something, I will continue to bring this problem up.

    Folk's, I worked on these films, I know what Lucasfilm is like. The lawyers, the threats, the intimidation of fans. It's all very real and very serious. But other fans have done some pretty weird stuff in these threads that I never see anyone get in trouble over.

    I respect that the Fan Force has rules, but not a shadow committee that tells me after the fact what has gone on. That is not right.

    You might feel that doing this keeps you on the right side of Lucasfilm or something-it doesn't.

    It makes you just as shadowy and cold as they are. I have little respect for the guys in charge at the ranch, but please for the sake of keeping this fandom going...don't act like them.

    As I said, I want to see these alligations for myself. Private and in full. If there is truly a case I will let my state know, and that will be the END of it. But unless I hear something from someone, (I) will continue to ask questions. I was elected to guide this group and to make policy. I can't do that when I don't even know what has happened!

    Again, I think people know I am fair, and try to be as impartial as possible- so let's see it.

    PLEASE-


    Eric Jon Larson
    President of the Wisconsin Fan Force

  15. mirrax Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 1
    I agree Eric - I just don't get this stuff. It came on suddenly and yes I'm not here alot but whooooooa the pc seems to be in play. Tom seems to be in the know and I've never encountered anything offending. Seems tfn is trying to cover way too many bases or something.
  16. BYOB_Kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2000
    star 5
    Generally speaking, people are not allowed to know what is in another person's user notes. (To clarify, if this was high school, your user notes would be what the Principal would call your "permanent record.")

    However, as I stated twice earlier, I have no qualms about my user notes being made public. In fact, I fully encourage it. So at the very least, admins, you have my permission.
  17. jedihexer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2002
    star 2
    I have just made an official query into getting the records (sort of speak). I will review them in (private)-if they send them, and will let you know my thoughts then.
    I will also consult the Vice President.

    I don't feel airing dirty laundry in public is right. I have a job I was elected to do, and I will do it.

    For now, we must continue. I suggest we start the vote right away. The longer we wait the more the new CR will have to clean up.

    But I promise to ALL MILWOOKIE COUNCIL MEMBERS that I will get to the bottom of this, and I will be quick and fair.
    I expect nothing less from the parties involved.

    So, can I count on your support?

    Eric Larson
    President TMC
  18. DarthJurist Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2000
    star 5
    How are we going to ever hold it together when our greatest reinforcements are being demolished?

    My friends to the north, a few words.

    They have removed Tom from his position, as is their right, because this is a private board and they create the rules.

    TheForce.Net?s Fan Force created you.

    But it is YOU keep YOURSELF together.

    You do not need TheForce.Net to stay together, or their approval to carry on. The identity of you club is not limited to these boards, just as your membership shouldn?t be limited to those that post here. Theses boards are a tool of your club (although an important one), and tools are not the essence of any group. The people are.

    Your group does not have the power to control decisions that are made on these boards. But you do have to power to decide what to do next.

    I don't mean to sound all new-age-motivational speaker-like, but my point is that any Fan Force worth it's salt should be more than just what is represented here on the boards. I?m not advocating leaving the boards, my message is that this board is not the heart and soul of your group. Message Boards come and go, but it is your relationship with each other that will carry the day.

    You guys have a great club going; don?t let JC politics interfere with that.

    Force out.
    ~H~
  19. bwing53 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2002
    star 3
    This is a steaming pants-load of crap.


    That said, I nominate Carter for our CR. He seems to be a company guy, and he has nothing but time to take pot-shots. Sounds like the perfect assasin, umm, I mean, CR, for us. After all, we do so like playing by the rules around here.

    They want to demote you, Tom, that's fine. Don't apologize for anything. Nothing. I don't care about the the "long list of past transgressions that we don't know about", because if they won't justify it in this forum other than to vaguely allude to it, then it doesn't exist to me. I'm here to have fun, damn it, and it's people like you that make this place fun. It seems to me that your role as CR (which you performed both on-line and in person at damn near EVERY type of meeting/event we've had) was doomed from the beginning, because you're not a "yes" man. All the hot-shots with fancy titles that have "been with FanForce from the beginning" and that "hold a lot of respect for FanForce" can cram it, as far as I'm concerned. Do we need a CR that badly? Do we all get banned if we don't elect a new one? Should someone get "stuck" with the job, even if they don't have the time (or the willingness and motivation) to do it?

    There's a person here who embraces the position and, forgetting all non-Milwaukee FanForce stuff, does the CR job responsibly, thoroughly, and DAILY. Doesn't take a day off. EVER. I can count on seeing his posts every day, and if I've got a question, it gets answered within 24 hours, without exception. But he's not the guy for the job. Go figure.

    Jason
  20. TheWampas1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 4
    If I were a cynic (good news, I am!) I would venture forth the following hypothesis based on nothing more than rambling thoughts as I was at work (a monkey could do my job, so I use the left over brain power to drift from thought to thought... sure, maybe disodium trioxosilicate gets labeled as "coconut creme pie filling," but, I don't like coconut creme pie, so it's all good). Here's what I thought:

    The debate started over Tom wondering why all the Two Towers trailer threads were getting locked up. While I agree a person could reason that the trailer would be in the official Two Towers thread, I've also surfed the community boards, and that place is a hodge podge of all kinds of weirdness. There's a discussion about how hot the Golden Girls are (no lie). There are threads seemingly devoted to nothing at all, like what Mr Neck had for lunch. So finding the official thread might be difficult, and supposing you do find it, it might be pages long. Now, this board is a business. Let's face it, there isn't some wonderful person out there paying for hundreds or thousands of people to yap at one another about who the better Fett is (Boba). And, like all online businesses, it makes money (or tries to) through advertising. Being a site devoted to Star Wars, it's likely that many people are also fans of fantasy. Now why would a movie company pay to advertise, when the people on the board are doing it for them? I don't know if that's at all a motive for squashing the trailer threads, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were.

    Then again, I'm not a mod, I don't know. Clearly I don't understand how some people get to be mods when I look at some of the choices. And regardless of the motives behind squashing all the trailer threads, I'd have to say that some people acted seemingly the same as Tom. I'm not sure of anything they faced, but I seriously doubt they got the same punishment.

    We had a few clashes with Tom early on in his tenure as CR. But, happily those issues got resolved and after that very brief period (I believe it lasted all of a day), he's been wonderful to have around. Obviously I think that could have been the case with the general public, but that hasn't happened. Regardless of how some admin here might feel about Tom, I think they're completely in the wrong. And since they haven't met him, I don't think they should come to this board and attack him. It sort of reeks of hypocracy (a government of needles).

    As for the future with our CR, to be honest, I don't care. I would be happy to leave the space vacant if we could. I think, and always have, that the group and what we do in Wisconsin is more important than any label on this board. I agree with Jurist above. I'm more interested in hanging out with the people here, than talking to strangers in Guam. If Jeff wants the job, I'm sure he can handle it fine, as long as no one calls Firefly "trite." Maybe the title will impress that waitress. Somehow though, I am reminded of the scene in Glory when the officer asks, "If this man should fall, who will pick up the flag and carry it?"

    And that's all I have to say about that.

    Dwayne

    PS. I guess I was wrong, I have one more thing to say: Thank you Tom for all you did for us, inside and outside of these little "Post" windows.
  21. DarthJurist Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2000
    star 5
    I believe that to be an official fan force (with all the accompanying benefits), a CR is required. That person's role is to be the liaison between the RSA's and the rest of the group.

    That said, it's been my observation that while some CRs are VERY active, others seem to be around very infrequently and don't seem to do a lot. Make of that what you will.

    I'll defer to Femme as to the official rules, regs and expectation re: the CR position.

    ~H~
  22. Mauler_II Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 3
    Frankly, I have yet to see a "benefit". The one "benefit" we did have was electing our own CR, and that was taken away from us.

    The only other noticable thing I have seen is an extra link to the Milwookie official site.

    Frankly, I don't think its worth it..
  23. Skywalker1138 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2002
    star 3
    This "new-age-motivational" idea of going on, on our own is just fine but most of us tend to interact throughout the course of the weeks going by on these threads. How we'll stay together without them I'm not entirely sure. I do back JediHexer on getting to the bottom of the conspiracy going on, and I actually agree with everything written under my last post. It's a very confusing time for us and... is the Milwookie Council being blinded as the Jedi Council in Ep. II?
  24. TheWampas1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 4
    I think what Dan and I are saying is that a CR shouldn't be our primary concern. Why should someone in (I don't even know where this thing is run from) affect our group here in Wisconsin? If we need a CR, that's fine, but why worry about tap dancing for other people that we shouldn't need to please? I'm not saying we abandon the boards, it's a good service despite problems. What I am saying is that we choose one (I think Jeff volunteered, and I can't see why anyone would disagree... sure, less "quality" time for him with the action figures, but... sacrifices must be made) and then we're done with it. I care more about the people in Wisconsin than I do about people in server-land.

    Dwayne
  25. BYOB_Kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2000
    star 5
    I'd also like to point out, with as little bitterness as possible, that Bobafemme didn't really know what she was talking about in this thread when she was trying to explain to you what it was I did to get demoted.

    I had a chat with her over Yahoo Messenger at the end of the day where she suggested I find out from Rox which thread it was that I was being so offensive in. This was long after she made her posts in this thread, and long long after I copied the entire message from Rox, including his link to the offending thread, in my first post on page 1. It would seem evident that she was not paying enough attention to the very thread she was responding to.

    Also, Eric finally got my user notes from her. With any luck, you'll all soon get to see what makes me such a bad bad man.
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