Crazy Theory or could this have some truth in it?

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Jedi_Learner, May 14, 2003.

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  1. DamonD Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2002
    star 6
    Sorry if I used too strong a word, Ree Yees.

    But it seems a lot of people could just best remember that SW is a series of films. Not a way of life or the Second Coming.

    If my sister overdoses on cocaine, that's a tragedy for me. Jar Jar Binks is not. Some proper perspective would be nice.
  2. rpeugh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    Well, I think a big reason why EMIPIRE wasnt as successful was b/c of the cliffhanger ending, and many kids cried at the end. Im sure their parents didnt want to take them to see it again.
  3. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    There are two main reasons AOTC made less than TPM:

    (1) The hype died down. You simply cannot match the hype that surrounded TPM.

    (2) AOTC went up against Spider-Man, which had a huge hype and was the first film to kick off the summer of 2002. AOTC also went up against a barrage of other huge films, of which includes Minority Report, a Spielberg film, and various others. TPM didn't face as much tough competition in 1999 as it did in 2002.

    But further more, I think AOTC did very well box office wise. Just look at IMAX sales. They held strong even going against the release of the DVD, The Two Towers, The Chamber of Secrets, Die Another Die, and other big holiday films. Only now, a year after it's box office run began, has it finally ended. I think AOTC did very well considering what it went up against, and obviously enough people must have liked it to keep it going the way it did.
  4. D_Lowe Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 6
    Could this be responsible for some of the less profits for Episode II and one of the reasons why Episode I made so much, or was this all going to happen? What do you think?

    The Phantom Menace got a lot of hype. It was the first Star Wars film in 16 years. The excitement was there for a new Star Wars film. Plus all the hype. Having lots of people disappointed in Episode I hurt Episode II. People sterotyped Episode II based on how they felt about Episode I.
  5. jag29 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2002
    star 3
    The Two Towers DVD has not came out on DVD yet.
  6. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
  7. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    The Two Towers DVD has not came out on DVD yet.

    And?
  8. Ree Yees Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    If my sister overdoses on cocaine, that's a tragedy for me. Jar Jar Binks is not. Some proper perspective would be nice.

    But your sister can still be saved, while the Star Wars saga is lost forever.
  9. Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2000
    star 5
    "no one, (at least no one in their right mind) is anticipating Episode III anymore"

    How about you talk about the films, not the fans. [face_plain]

    "I say they don't love it"

    Speak for yourself. [face_plain]

    "he's lost his entire audience"

    He certainly hasn't lost me. [face_plain]
  10. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    No one looks forward to it anymore, and no one, (at least no one in their right mind) is anticipating Episode III anymore, because we all know its going to be garbage.

    This gets you a warning, yodas - it's a sweeping generalization and flamebaiting to folks like me who are both in their right mind as well as are anticipating Ep. III. And unless you're privy to something we don't know, I doubt there is a person outside of LFL who has any idea about what kind of quality we can expect from the film.
  11. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    Quixotic-Sith, in that case, Durwood must receive a warning, as he implied that I must have a "personal problem" for not liking the prequels so far. Let's not have double-standards here.
  12. Clonetrooper1000 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 3
    Reharding the fact that a majority of Star Wars fans are happy with the prequels.

    Yodaschum: "Who are you to say this?"

    I am not. Statistics and opinion polls speak for themselves.

    Then you go on with about 10 lines of stuff about how Star Wars was a phenomenon. Did I ever say it was not a phenomenon? And how has that anything to do with the majority of Star Wars fans enjoying the prequels. The fact of the matter is that Star Wars in 1977 created the big-budget/sci-fi/fantasy blockbuster. If you look at the films released in the last few years - HP/LOTR/X-Men/Spiderman - they all have their own massive merchandising markets. Of course Star Wars cannot maintain a whole share of the merchandise market when the number of alternatives is now higher than it has ever been (in fact there were no major alternatives when the OT came out). Not to mention the fact that Star Wars remains the highest selling in merchandise anyway, quite impressive when you consider LOTR and HP.

    Yodadschum: "You say the fans love it; well I say they don't love it"

    A majority do love it and that is what counts as being "accepted".

    Yodaschum: "This is Star Wars, it's made to entertain masses of people."

    The emphasis has changed now anyway. George is focusing on making Episode II and III for the fans rather than for the general public. However, there are still so many fans that it is entertaining "masses of people" ;)

    Yodaschum: "Not even the owners of theforce.net like the prequels, so dont tell me the fans arent turning away."

    Thats a fantastic source of information. How many people is that? 4...5...maybe....give us a break.. [face_laugh]
  13. Scott3eyez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2001
    star 4
    >>>Quixotic-Sith, in that case, Durwood must receive a warning, as he implied that I must have a "personal problem" for not liking the prequels so far. Let's not have double-standards here.

    I don't want to get involved, but exactly whose problem is it then?

    Mine?
    George Lucas'?
    Yours?

    I mean, my dad saw AOTC. However, he clearly didn't think much of it, because it came up in a conversation the other day and he was convinced he hadn't seen it. (At the time we were having dinner- me, my girlfriend and my parents, who all happened to see it together.) But he doesn't have a problem with not liking it. He certainly didn't "walk away grumbling, unhappy and with a sore head" (which was the "personal problem" Durwood referred to- not the fact you didn't like it.)
  14. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    The emphasis has changed now anyway. George is focusing on making Episode II and III for the fans rather than for the general public. However, there are still so many fans that it is entertaining "masses of people"

    ..and that's precisely the problem. Star Wars has now become some cult, that spotty nerds, who live in there parents basement enjoy, along with Star Trek Voyager and Deep Space Nine, and all the other Star Trek crap they dish out to feed "Trekkies". Star Wars used to be about film-making, and the art of film-making. Now its a cheap franchise for nerds, who read the in-bred universe books, fantasising about being in the Jedi Academy, and dressing up as Darth Vader around the house. If, as you say, George Lucas is making this for the fans, then he really is taking you all for mugs, and robbing you of every penny.
  15. DamonD Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2002
    star 6
    But your sister can still be saved, while the Star Wars saga is lost forever.

    Well, if you want to crank up the dramatic rhetoric several billion notches I guess.

    Would you rather I gave the example that my sister died or something instead?

    Okay, if my sister DIES of a dug overdose than that's a tragedy. No more sister, gone forever. Lost forever.

    Perspective, please. And the real 'nerd factor' of SW seems to kick in when people complain about a special effect not looking right for a split-second and so on.
  16. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    I don't want to get involved, but exactly whose problem is it then?

    Mine?
    George Lucas'?
    Yours?

    I mean, my dad saw AOTC. However, he clearly didn't think much of it, because it came up in a conversation the other day and he was convinced he hadn't seen it. (At the time we were having dinner- me, my girlfriend and my parents, who all happened to see it together.) But he doesn't have a problem with not liking it. He certainly didn't "walk away grumbling, unhappy and with a sore head" (which was the "personal problem" Durwood referred to- not the fact you didn't like it.)


    It was not a personal problem. I had a problem with the film, and still have to this day. With all due respect, your Dad is an example of what the general public think of Star Wars prequels - nothing at all. I don't think most of them even can remember seeing the film. It has no scenes of any note or interest, it doesnt have Neo dodging bullets, Gandalf stopping the Balrog from passing, Robert Patrick's robot re-forming again after being frozen, Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia swinging across the chasm of the Death Star or Han Solo Frozen in carbonite. It has nothing memorable. its the films problem, and the inability of the writer.
  17. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    TPM made that much because it was the first SW movie in 16 years. Also because the SE two years earlier had boosted the saga´s popularity.
    When AOTC came, everyone had gotten used to there being new SW movies made. It simply wasn´t as anticipated, it wasn´t a must-see for the casual movie goer. That´s all there is to it. Sequels never make as much money as their predecessors!
  18. Clonetrooper1000 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 3
    Yodaschum: "..and that's precisely the problem. Star Wars has now become some cult, that spotty nerds, who live in there parents basement enjoy, along with Star Trek Voyager and Deep Space Nine, and all the other Star Trek crap they dish out to feed "Trekkies"."

    Just because it is aimed at fans has nothing to do with this. Star Trek is a mass-production conveyer belt of reasonable (at the best of times) TV and films that I personally detest.

    If you wanted more detail than The Lord of the Rings then you would turn to The Silmarillion, which provided more of the back story and mythology. Its not a problem to aim a piece of art at those who want to know more and enjoy more. The Silmarillion is considered by many a masterpiece in its own right. Perhaps you should EXPLAIN how this is a problem because just coming out and saying it is like Star trek is not good enough.

    Yodaschum: "Star Wars used to be about film-making, and the art of film-making."

    Thats funny because in your Post from 5/14 9:28am you say that it is about a lot more than just this, and rightfully so. However, it shows you like to change what you say because you feel it sounds better.
  19. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    If you wanted more detail than The Lord of the Rings then you would turn to The Silmarillion, which provided more of the back story and mythology. Its not a problem to aim a piece of art at those who want to know more and enjoy more. The Silmarillion is considered by many a masterpiece in its own right. Perhaps you should EXPLAIN how this is a problem because just coming out and saying it is like Star trek is not good enough.

    I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but I presume you're implying that the prequels are made in the same style and intent as the Silmarillion. I have not read The Silmarrillion, but I have read about it and know that it is a chronicle of the world of middle Earth and history of its races, people etc.

    I stand by my argument that Star Wars has become like Star Trek.

    Just because it is aimed at fans has nothing to do with this. Star Trek is a mass-production conveyer belt of reasonable (at the best of times) TV and films that I personally detest.

    I detest it too, however, I feel Lucas is making the Star Wars films with the exact same mentality. He keeps to the formula laid down in the OT, and copies it into the PT; complete with sound effects and dialogue.
  20. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    If he didn´t, it wouldn´t be Star Wars, and THAT´s when you´d know that he had become pretentious.
  21. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    Err, whatever. At the end of the day, you like the prequels, where as I think they are poor in comparison to the OT. So far there have been 3 excellent Star Wars films and two that sucked.
  22. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    "It has nothing memorable."

    The entrance of Darth Maul with his doubled-lighted lightsabre? Darth Sidious and all his lines? Qui-Gon's death? Should I go on? ;)
  23. Clonetrooper1000 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 3
    Yodaschum: "I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but I presume you're implying that the prequels are made in the same style and intent as the Silmarillion."

    Yodaschum, I never said once that the prequels held the same style and intent as The Silmarillion. I used it as a point of comparison because it too provides a backstory to the mythology and is only aimed at 'fans'/readers who would prefer more insight into that mythology.

    And since you wrote "I'm not sure what you're getting at here", I will explain again.

    I wrote George is focusing on making Episode II and III for the fans rather than for the general public

    You replied "..and that's precisely the problem."

    My point is, that if the author makes a film or writes a book that provides an insight into his/her mythology, and that it is aimed moreso at fans than general viewers/readers, then there is absolutely no problem in this.

    The Silmarillion is a good example of a book aimed more at the fans. Lucas expects less financial success with II and III because likewise they are aimed more at the SW fans. Like Episodes II and III, The Silmarillion has sold nowhere near as much as Lord of the Rings, mainly for this reason (and its a more difficult read).

    Yodaschum: "He keeps to the formula laid down in the OT, and copies it into the PT; complete with sound effects and dialogue."

    Perhaps you could give examples of what you mean. There is nothing wrong with the parallels in the story - that is 100% intentional and effective. There was effects and dialogue reused on Episodes V and VI from Episode IV, as well as with the prequels. So I don't see your point.
  24. DamonD Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2002
    star 6
    yodaschum, I think when Durwood said you had a 'personal problem' with the PT, he meant that you personally didn't like them, you had a problem with them. Not that you had some kind of personal problem like retardation or something.

    What he said was right, it wasn't a flame or a banning offense. I have a personal problem with the film Lost In Space, which came out a few years back. Dear God, do I have a problem with that film :p
  25. Scott3eyez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2001
    star 4
    >>>Star Wars has now become some cult, that spotty nerds, who live in there parents basement enjoy, along with Star Trek Voyager and Deep Space Nine, and all the other Star Trek crap they dish out to feed "Trekkies". [...] Now its a cheap franchise for nerds, who read the in-bred universe books, fantasising about being in the Jedi Academy, and dressing up as Darth Vader around the house. If, as you say, George Lucas is making this for the fans, then he really is taking you all for mugs, and robbing you of every penny.

    For what it's worth, I don't live with my parents, don't watch Star Trek, Voyager or Deep Space Nine, don't read the "in-bred universe books", didn't know that a Jedi Academy existed, let alone fantasise about being in in it, have never dressed as Darth Vader, and don't spend my money on anything SW-related other than admission to the films, DVDs and videos.

    So as I feel that Star Wars is made for me, I have to disagree with your bizarre yet passionate rant.

    It's always seemed to me that the spotty nerds/Star Trek fans/merchandise collectors are the ones who are complaining about the prequels...

    >>>With all due respect, your Dad is an example of what the general public think of Star Wars prequels - nothing at all.

    I would presume that the fact he didn't particularly like the OT either would therefore mean that he is an example of what the general public think of the Star Wars films in general?

    Maybe not...

    >>>He keeps to the formula laid down in the OT, and copies it into the PT; complete with sound effects and dialogue.

    Of course he does! Isn't that the point of the whole "episode" idea? (Do people complain about the recycled dialogue, sound effects etc. in ESB and ROTJ?)
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