PT Criticisms of the Prequel Trilogy

There is already a thread titled "stupidest argument against the Prequels." This thread is for generally discussing the criticisms others have for the films and why you either agree or don't agree.

I guess I'll start with Jake Lloyd's acting. I don't get how it's bad. I've seen people laughing whenever he's talking because "his acting is terrible" but I don't get it. That's exactly how I would expect a kid to talk, anyway.

 

In honor of the upcoming Force Awakens, my family decided to re-watch the films together. We saw TPM today. As a fan who saw the OT in theaters, my mother did not like TPM. Her primary complaint is that the characterizartion is poor, that everyone speaks in monotone and that the movie doesn't give a chance for the viewers to become invested in the characters, to find out who they are as persons. In short, to her it paled in comparison to the originals

While I still loved the film, I honestly could not disagree with her that much. Most of the acting was delivered monotously, and the characters always had to do something instead of taking time to show their relationships. She said that Obi-Wan and Anakin were the best. I think that Qui-Gon, Palpatine, and Obi-Wan were the best. For some reason, she did not like Qui-Gon that much.

As for Jake, no one in my family thought there was anything bad with his performance as Anakin. I don't see why people have a problem with it. Besides, if acting is considered to be an art form, then why would they expect much from kid actors in the first place?

As always though, I thoroughly enjoyed the lightsaber duels, ground battles, space battle, pod race, and Palptine's clever plan

 

I guess I can kind of see where she's coming from but it doesn't really make me like the movie less, though I admit the acting could be better. I do like Qui-Gon too.

 

The first time I've watched The Phantom Menace I've watch it after Revenge of the Sith in 2005, but I didn't have any kind of expectations towards this movie since I knew that it was suppose to be the first chapter (a prologue, an introduction like in a novel) so the beginning of a film series, TV series or of a novel can always sound a little bit tedious. But even by knowing that and even if it's not my favorite Star Wars movie, it didn't stop me to appreciate it. But I agree with your mother's complain that the characterization can sound a little bit poor and the story can be confusing. I've watched this movie two times I think. But as the other Star Wars movies, I haven't watched it for a long time. Maybe another viewing before the release of The Force Awakens can give me different perspective about this movie.

I've watched the movie in the french version (I also speak french) so I don't know what the acting sounds like when you watch the movie in its original version, in english. But on my side I haven't found the acting horrible, but neither great. I think that the main line that Jake had when filming was to act as "a simple child" during the movie, nothing more, nothing less. In one of the documentary about the making of The Phantom Menace, the reason why George Lucas has chosen Jake among other boys was because he wanted Anakin as a young boy to sound "natural", which I think, is justified if you want to start the story about one of the main character as a child living with his mother on a desolated place as Tatooine. But one of the complaints I've heard is that there was no sign that Jake was treated as a slave on Tatooine since he always sound as happy boy living with his mother, he's not being maltreated. But I wonder if it would have been really necessary to show that Jake was really being maltreated by Watto.

 

The plot of TPM is carried mainly by politicians and their protectors on official business and a crucial part of the battle is fought in the political arena, so a level of stiffness is to be expected.
The film still takes time to let us become invested in key characters, though.

At the center stands the relationship between Anakin and his mother, with Qui-Gon and Padmé involving themselves, practically expanding the Skywalker family. Sure, Padmé is careful about it (for understandable reasons), but she and Anakin are obviously taking their first steps in what will hopefully be a longstanding friendship. Qui-Gon, for his part, invests himself fully, driven by his adamant belief that Anakin is the Chosen One, but also filled with true concern for the wellbeing of his new "family".
In fact, Qui-Gon carries the film with an inspiring sort of (com)passion which puts him at odds with the emotionally distant members of the Jedi Council. He is the primary heart of TPM, with Anakin and Padmé - and let's not forget about Jar Jar! - tagging along right behind him. If one doesn't particularly like him, I can definitely understand that the film seems devoid of true emotion.

I get that there's a lot to take in on a first viewing and the emotions are somewhat subtle when compared to later episodes, but the fact is that TPM is one of my all-time favorite movies and I don't see much of a point in dwelling on negative comments. My mind is made up about it and I'm content. Loving feels great!

 

Qui-Gon has an air of compassion about him, but I have said before this is almost wholl injected into the character by Liam Neeson.

His attitude to Jar-Jar is condescending and ambivalent throughout; he takes him along through some sense that he has a part to play, but he is not interested in the person of Jar-Jar at all; only a feeling that he can be of use.

Had Anakin not had such a high midiclorian count ( still can't write that without feeling, in some way, offended), if he didn't have these exceptional powers and was instead simply a boy who gave without thought of reward, who knew nothing of greed - do you think he would have freed him? Does he take into account what effect his ripping apart the relationship he has with his mother will have?

He uses Obi-Wan's grief to make him promise to train the boy, offering no sense of support , wisdom or care for his existing padawan except that.

Qui-Gon is dogmatically keyed into the notion of prophecy, he broaches no disagreement with his own view. He is not compassionate, he is charismatic...like any snake-oil seller.

 

If Anakin hadn't been Force-sensitive, he wouldn't have been able to fly the Podracer well enough to win, in the first place.

That said - supposing, just for the moment, that it had been an alien slave boy, with amazing reflexes but nothing more - that had led them to his home as shelter, helped them, offered them his Podracing skills to win the money, etc.

And we've finally got to the "I'm betting heavily on Sebulba" stage.

Would Qui-Gon have "wagered my new racing pod against, say, the boy and his mother."?

I think he might have - he'd have felt he owed them a great debt.

My first experience of him was the TPM novel, so "Liam Neeson's charisma" wasn't a factor.

 

At the end of the day, we all see what we want to see. Qui-Gon is stubborn and Anakin's presence in the Force is what makes him take special notice, but he does care about those around him.
For example, while he does say to Obi-Wan that Jar Jar may be of help, it quickly turns out that he was merely interested in saving him from punishment because obviously, Jar Jar was of no use to them in the core of Naboo and they didn't need anyone's help to navigate at all.
That's partly what Obi-Wan is getting at with "Why do I sense we've picked up another pathetic lifeform?". This is clearly an intended personality trait of Qui-Gon's. He sticks his neck out for those weaker than him, because he is compassionate. Like a true Jedi.

 

Obi-Wan's musings on the subject, while they're heading through the core:

Qui-Gon placed a hand on the Gungan's shoulder. "Just relax, my friend. The Force will guide us."​

"Da Force? What tis da Force?" Jar Jar did not look impressed. "Maxibig thing, dis Force, yous betcha. Gonna save me, yous, all us, huh?"​

Obi-Wan closed his eyes in dismay. This was a disaster waiting to happen. But it was Qui-Gon's disaster to manage. It was not his place to interfere. Qui- Gon had made the decision to bring Jar Jar Binks along, after all. Not because he was a skilled navigator or had displayed even the slightest evidence of talent in any other regard, but because he was another project that Qui-Gon, with his persistent disregard for the dictates of the Council, had determined had value and could be reclaimed.​

It was a preoccupation that both mystified and frustrated Obi-Wan. His mentor was perhaps the greatest Jedi alive, a commanding presence at Council, a strong and brave warrior who refused to be intimidated by even the most daunting challenge, and a good and kind man. Maybe it was the latter that had gotten him into so much trouble. He repeatedly defied the Council in matters that Obi-Wan thought barely worthy of championing. He was possessed of his own peculiar vision of a Jedi's purpose, of the nature of his service, and of the causes he should undertake, and he followed that vision with unwavering single - mindedness.​

Obi-Wan was young and impatient, headstrong and not yet at one with the Force in the way that Qui-Gon was, but he understood better, he thought, the dangers of overreaching, of taking on too many tasks. Qui-Gon would dare anything when he found a challenge that interested him, even if he risked himself in the undertaking.​

So it was here. Jar Jar Binks was a risk of the greatest magnitude, and there was no reason to think that embracing such a risk would reap even the smallest reward.​

 

Speaking of which, midi-chlorians are another example of a criticism towards the prequels (because a few lines will dramatically change how you much like a trilogy).

I know people say they demystified the Force but they are the same people who always say:
"Midi-chlorians are the Force." NO, THEY ARE NOT!

But what does everyone here think about the midi-chlorian criticism?

 

It demystified the Force.

 

You can place me in the "not a fan of Lloyd's acting" camp. I understand finding a child actor is hard but they are out there. I believe there are a good number of fans out there, myself included, who think that George isn't the greatest when it comes to writing dialogue so it takes a really good actor to make it work because they cannot rely on the script. Better actors (Ewan, Liam, Harrison, Carrie, etc) can make it work.

It is completely warranted.

 

How? I thought they were just living organisms that live near the Force.

 

Qui-Gon says that Midi-chlorians are (paraphrased): "Symbionts... Microscopic life forms that live within your cells. Without Midi-chlorians, life could not exist and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually talk to us, telling us the will of the Force."

Thus, yes they technically are not the Force themselves. Nevertheless, the spiritual perspective of the Force from the OT was far superior and complete, needing no expansion. In fact, I strongly believe midi-chlorians were just Lucas's version of power levels. Obi-Wan is basically saying: "His power level is over 9000!" ~ "His midi-chlorian count is off the charts; over 20,000"

Instead of all that, they could've just said that Qui-Gon felt that Anakin's Force potential was the strongest he had ever experienced, stronger than Master Yoda's, that it was almost overwhelming. Obi-Wan would have confirmed it on the ship, and the council would have confirmed it in person. That would have been more than enough

 

I came back to give the courtesy of a response after doing some yard work and would just point out, "what he said." Points up.

 

Interesting observations, EJ. I didn't like Qui at all and I came in TPM as a Liam Fan. Can't blame your mum there. Likewise agree that the emotional connection and depth is lacking in the characters. For me, the reason I don't like Qui is because Liam is acting 'out of character' for himself. Too cool and detached, almost offhanded. Not the passionate and tender man I have seen for many years and I find that disturbing and disappointing. Really about the only trait he has in TPM that reads right is conviction.

 

• Acting is a bit on the monotone side.
• Dialog could have used some work.
• While the prequels work great as a trilogy, TPM and AOTC aren't very good as standalone films.
• There are a few times where the CGI doesn't look as good as it could (mostly found in AOTC).
• There could have been less of Jar Jar antics in TPM.
• The Blu-rays of five of the six films have been touched up with a bit too much DNR (Obviously intended for the Blu-ray versions to be converted into 3D).

That's all I got. I still love the prequels though.

 

I didn't find the "midis" to be a problem, and that is from someone who does like the mysticism of the OT. It's kind of like saying you need ears to hear sounds, or eyes to interpret visual signals. It's not the "what" of the Force, but the "how."

Jake wasn't bad. The one and only stilted line were his "Master Qui-Gon,sir, what are midichlorians?" It wasn't natural. Pretty much everything else was fine, though not great.

Ah, Qui-Gon. Now there's an enigma: a man held up to be nearly a saint, the ultimate Jedi by many and derided, on the other hand, by many. Much of Qui-Gon's kindness is infused by Liam, no doubt, but there is still a very visible strain of condescension and superiority in some of his actions that come from the character, not Liam's portrayal. He comes across as a detached, yet compassionate man who will help almost anyone, but he doesn't always engage with said person. Ex: Jar Jar, whom he rarely bothers to connect with. He'll help him, sure, have concern for his circumstances, sure, but otherwise will keep his distance.

He even shows condescension to Padme from time to time. It's hard to see much affection towards his own padawan (other than the dying brush of his cheek), although one can make a case there that there is no need or "Jedi detachment" is why.

He's truly only warm and personable to Shmi, where I feel the character shines best. THAT is the Qui-Gon that got the character labeled "ultimate Jedi." IMHO.

 

I love the prequels, but I have to admit that you're right on this. I don't hate the midi-chlorians, but it's the one instance where I think Lucas has chosen an easy way out, as you nicely said, by simply assigning power levels to Anakin like some video game.

What you've written in your last paragraph could have worked better. That and coupled with Anakin's ability to pilot a podracer as a human being should have been enough to make him something special.

 

Glad you think so, VS. We disagree (no surprise).

 

H[quoteairate, post: 52553037, member: 1405355"]There is already a thread titled "stupidest argument against the Prequels." This thread is for generally discussing the criticisms others have for the films and why you either agree or don't agree.

I guess I'll start with Jake Lloyd's acting. I don't get how it's bad. I've seen people laughing whenever he's talking because "his acting is terrible" but I don't get it. That's exactly how I would expect a kid to talk, anyway.[/quote]
He was a kid playing a kid.....i dont see the issue.

 

I would never call him, or anyone else, the ultimate Jedi. In many ways, though, he is, to me, a model Jedi. I use the word "a", not "the", for a reason. You see, I don't believe that there is one all-encompassing Jedi type. They all have their strengths and weaknesses and what makes Qui-Gon great is that he sticks to his guns. He excels at the intuitive, in-the-moment, Living Force kind of stuff that he preaches.
What's more, he is a man of sincere faith. He absolutely believes, no, knows, that his instincts never fail him. He's not the best of diplomats, especially when it comes to discussing matters directly related to his own decisions - and that is a weakness of his - but his adamant faith in his instincts is very inspiring to me, especially since I can confirm that he was right. He was right in freeing Jar Jar, because he didn't deserve punishment for his clumsiness and as it turned out, he was very much needed later on. Thanks to Qui-Gon's actions, Jar Jar wound up in a position to unite the peoples of Naboo.
He was right about Anakin. The boy did ultimately turn out to be the Chosen One and he did bring balance to the Force. Whether separating him from Shmi and bringing him to Coruscant where he'd be exposed to the influence of Palpatine was really what should've happened or not is up to debate, but he was right about Anakin's ultimate destiny.

Oh well. I don't expect everyone to admire the guy, because obviously, he has some flaws. Then again, so does Yoda. And Obi-Wan. And... practically everyone else.

 

It wasn't necessary and it's a bit sad to see that so many people apparantly need blood or beating in order to feel what's wrong with slavery. Slavery is much more than "just" physical maltreatment, it's the loss of self-determination of a person and it violates human dignity. Anakin's peeved and hurt "I'm a person and my name is Anakin!" as a complete contrast to the bright child just seen seconds before should be enough for every mildly intelligent viewer to get the picture.

Ok, I understand that, but this still doesn't explain how it "demystified the Force"? It made it measurable and somehow objective, alright, but the Force and its existence and the question why some people have a stronger connection (a higher midi count, respectively) to the Force than others is still completely mythic - apart from being somehow genetical, which was known at least 16 years prior to TPM.

Overall, it's becoming more and more obvious to me that those who like or dislike a move, respectively, just see and feel that movie in a very different way.

When I first watched TPM, I didn't care a bit for the midi-chlorians. Sure, they were there and I saw them as somewhat significant but they neither contributed to nor destroyed my enjoyment of the film in any way because I was much more concerned with Anakin as person, with his incredible talent, his kindness and his great achievement in the Podrace. Same with Anakin's origins and the lack of a father: I, of course, noticed that Anakin apparantly had no father but I saw it as a mythological motif that had its place in a fairytale-ish story like Star Wars without having any deep or even "offensive" significance. I was too emotionally invested in Anakin's touching and thoroughly human relationship with his mother to be bothered.

Consequently, I'm still not at all bothered and don't emotionally get how it could turn out to be so repellent for some. We're just different and I kind of, intellectually, get an idea why some couldn't relate to Shmi's pain and strength, for instance, the way I did.

 

Cushie, I think on Qui-Gon we're not that far apart. I like him, but I don't pedestal him..

Lulu: I don't call him the ultimate Jedi, personally, it's just that many do and of those, many resent any criticism of the character. You have summed up his character perfectly, I think:

Where I would not agree with you, or at least, somewhat disagree with you, about him being right. Not that he was wrong - I don't think it's a diametrical right or wrong, if that makes sense. I would agree with GL's oft quoted lines about the same: he was right, in the end, but he was wrong as well. In short, (this is me, not GL) there would have been alternatives to what happened story-wise, whether that be a combination of not proclaiming Anakin's status before him (making him into an object, not a person), freeing Shmi and Anakin with Anakin to be trained outside the Temple, whatever our minds might dream up.

Freeing Jar Jar was right. No dispute there. But again, did he free Jar Jar out of compassion, or some feeling he would be useful in future? Perhaps that is unimportant (in a way) - it was the "Force's guidance" but in the discussion of Qui-Gon's character, it's not so clear it was out of compassion.

As Cushy so often (rightly) says, he's "gray;" i.e. no paragon of virtue, but hardly the opposite. He's very human. And so are practically all the other characters (as portrayed, anyway - speaking of Palps primarily).

 

I got to admit that I don't find too many criticism in Star Wars, as I do have a respect for them and find them overall to be enjoyable films,
however a few niggles for me are

- I don't get who TPM was aimed at. I'd say anyone under 15 wouldn't really comprehend the political plot of the film and the younger, preteen audience definitely wouldn't. And I'm also sure the majority of people who are deeply invested in the political side of things wouldn't find Jar Jar the least bit funny. For me TPM is such an odd film in this regard.

- Anakin readily accepting Palpatine's lies about saving Padmé, this is they guy who's been lying to him for 13 years. I'd much rather Anakin's turn had something to do with his own lust for power rather than having to automatically "trust" a sith lord on something.