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Discussion Crossover Writers Support Group

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by Theodore Hawkwood, May 18, 2017.

  1. Theodore Hawkwood

    Theodore Hawkwood Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2014
    What about the Delorean fitted with a hyperdrive (obviously also fitted to fly through space) racing the Millenium Falcon on the Kessel Run and Han Solo daring Marty McFly for said race?
     
    mavjade likes this.
  2. Sith-I-5

    Sith-I-5 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2002
    Wouldn't be a crossover, if you used Pengauani.
     
  3. Tarsier

    Tarsier Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2005
    It would be if you used the personalities of the Penguins of Madagascar in the form of Pengauani...
     
  4. Sith-I-5

    Sith-I-5 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2002
    I have not seen that scenario, using homegrown characters or species, but giving them the personalities of other fandom persons, described as a crossover.

    For instance, one Babylon 5 episode featured two alien versions of Mulder and Scully, investigating similar issues on their own world.

    It was an interesting scene, but no-one ever claimed it was a crossover.
     
  5. Tarsier

    Tarsier Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2005
    Interesting point, Sith-I-5, and that brings up something I’ve been thinking about for a while now. I’ve been wondering if it would be helpful to come up with categories for crossovers. (If these already exist, someone please let me know, and share a link or description if you can.) I can think of four major categories, although—as with most things that people try to categorize—not all stories or scenarios will necessarily fit neatly into one category.


    1. Meet and Greet – Characters from two (or more) different universes meet. Example – Luke Skywalker meets Spock. I would guess this is the most popular type, where characters and universes stay true to the canon, but somehow their individual storylines manage to collide.

    2. Mash-up – Two characters from different universes are combined into one. Example – Frodo Skywalker v. Darth Saruman - a Hobbit Jedi with characteristics of both Frodo Baggins and Luke Skywalker must fight against a Sith Lord Wizard with characteristics of both Darth Vader and Saruman. I’ve seen a lot of fanart that falls into this category.

    3. Concept Borrowing – A concept from one universe is imported to another. Example – Alexander Hamilton can use the Force. Now, if Luke Skywalker joined the cast of Hamilton, that would likely be category 1. But if Alexander Hamilton had a lightsaber and could move objects with his mind, but there were no Star Wars characters present, that would be category 3.

    4. Character Borrowing (Characters fit into a new Universe). This is sort of the inverse of 3 – a character (rather than a concept) is imported from one universe to another. Example - Penguins of Madagascar in the Star Wars universe in the form of Pengauani. There is one main universe, but a character (or several) from another universe is worked in as though they have always belonged. Another example: Harry Potter, not a wizard but a Jedi, born on Coruscant and raised in the Jedi Temple.


    There can easily be a lot of overlap. If Alexander Hamilton became a Jedi training under Luke Skywalker, that could be category 1, 3, 4, of a combination thereof. If the Penguins of Madagascar fell from their Madagascar universe to the GFFA and awoke looking like Pengauani, that might be a combination of 1 and 4.

    What do you guys think? Are categories helpful? Do some of these not count as crossovers? Do you have additions, subtractions, changes, better labels, or anything else?
     
    Gamiel likes this.
  6. Sith-I-5

    Sith-I-5 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2002
    TVTropes categorises crossovers excellently.

    For me, a crossover involves something physically going into another reality. So someone outside SW, being able to use the Force, would not count..... *shrugs* Maybe that would be what TVT called a Red Skies Crossover?

    Since this thread started, I have been considering my own work. In some instances, there are OCs transplanted into the new reality for so long, that I no longer considered them crossovers.
     
  7. mavjade

    mavjade It's so FLUFFY! Fanfic Manager star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Oh. MY. GOD. All of these ideas!

    [​IMG]
    Edit: Aaaand now I have the mental image of Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr dueling with lightsabers instead of pistols.




    But anyway, those are great categories and I think they cover the majority of crossover types. And I do think it's helpful because when you are writing a crossover these are things you have to think about. How much of the worlds are going to collide, if at all? Does inserting a character into a new universe change their personality at all? etc.
     
    Tarsier and Lady_Misty like this.
  8. MartyAvidianus

    MartyAvidianus Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    May 14, 2017
    the messy ones have all four categories happening at the same time.

    ask yourself when writing whether this character from another universe is really needed. without this character/this concept, doe the story fall apart? Or is he just there fore the sake of it? I want Spock on 30 Rock so he can stand around. cause I like Spock! yeah, 30 rock will get sucked into the Fringe universe and Spock will go there too and do his vulcan logic thingy but the real heroine is my mary sue who marrys Liz's character whom I don't know the name and so yeah, a Jedi can come in too. At last the Sith will reveal themselves and the real story is how they save the Jedi cause Jedi and Sith are like brother and sisters and should battle.... I forgot, are they called Vong are not? But Spock will save everyone! by jumping to lightspeed!
     
    Lady_Misty likes this.
  9. Theodore Hawkwood

    Theodore Hawkwood Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2014
    Only if the author failed to put any amount of thought into the crossover before writing and publishing it in the first place.
     
    MartyAvidianus likes this.
  10. Sith-I-5

    Sith-I-5 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2002
    That is NOT how plot bunnies work! - Han Solo

    If I get a plot bunny where NCIS' Agent Kate Todd is helping the 12th Doctor at that sea fort where he tried to punch bare-fisted through a diamond-hard barrier, no, Kate is not needed. The scenario does not fall apart if I use character from another fandom.

    The character is there because I considered the concept, then I realised the concept. I suppose that could be considered "for the sake of it", but in my universe, and possibly that of the dedicated crossover writer, that is not a negative.

    Homicide: Life on the Street, one of my two ultimate favourite cop shows, spent an episode exploring the concept of 'Dolls' Eyes', on a shooting victim who was on life support, but wasn't going to be that way by time we reached the credits. Organs are collected, packed in ice, helicoptered to a medical facility's roof landing pad....hang on, I recognise this guy in scrubs meeting us on the roof. Mandy Patinkin, so this is Chicago Hope!

    Was this character from Chicago Hope really needed? Not really. You could have mocked up any old hospital on one of your stages, and had an unknown extra, or any other actor.

    Without this character/this concept, does the story fall apart? Not really. The donor is still toast. The crime and the way it was investigated; the relatives and the way it was handled at the originating hospital, goes down the same way.

    Or is he just there for the sake of it? Frankly, yes, but his presence, to a lover of crossovers, and possibly a watcher of that other show, it is what adds that extra frisson.
     
  11. Theodore Hawkwood

    Theodore Hawkwood Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2014
    Crossover writing is, in and of itself, something I think requires a good bit of thought and consideration. But it generally starts as a question of 'what if' (as is the case for normal fanfiction and even conventional fiction).

    In my own case I wondered what it would be like if Kate Todd, pre-NCIS and current Secret Service timeline, got involved in the investigation of a former member of the Brotherhood of Mutants left for dead and scooped up by an unusual military unit. This led to a four way crossover of mine between NCIS/G.I. Joe/X-men: Evolution/Where on Earth is Carmen Sandiego.
     
    Sith-I-5, mavjade and Lady_Misty like this.
  12. Sith-I-5

    Sith-I-5 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2002
    [​IMG]

    Penguins of Madagascar join the Rebel Alliance in providing aid to Rogue One on Scarif.
     
    Theodore Hawkwood likes this.
  13. MartyAvidianus

    MartyAvidianus Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    May 14, 2017
    I am able to see it fine.
     
  14. Sith-I-5

    Sith-I-5 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2002
    Really? What is it?
     
  15. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    A combination of RO and the Madagascar Penguins
     
  16. MartyAvidianus

    MartyAvidianus Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    May 14, 2017
    It looks like the falcon (I see the iconic cockpit) drop out of hyprespace into a huge battle with nebulon b cruisers and x-wing. A huge explosion later, an x-wing vertically drop out into a black circular hole in space (pillars around said hole), then it drops into when penguins of madagascars are paratrooping. The x-wing hit a penguin, said penguin explode. gif ends. and repeat.
     
  17. Sith-I-5

    Sith-I-5 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2002
    Wow, good guess! :p

    I just fired up my system's backup browser, Firefox (honestly could not say which version), and yes, I see it too. But my default browser, IE11, all I am getting is a broken link, using the same BBCode formatting as my existing pics here. :(

    The penguins are going through the Scarif planetary shield. Or I have paired X-Wings going through the shield, with some footage I found of the Penguins freefalling after falling out the back of a cargo plane.

    Matching the scenes goes a long way towards getting a successful crossover. Just wish it would work on IE11. Maybe the problem is local...

    Edit: Oh, it is working now (on Internet Explorer 11); only took two hours to come visible. Thank you, you two. Maybe you are good luck charms!
     
  18. Mistress_Renata

    Mistress_Renata Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2000
    Love the GIF! Maybe we're going to have to write the Penguins/Star Wars crossover as a round robin.
     
    Sith-I-5 likes this.
  19. Darth Osnil

    Darth Osnil Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2016
    I didn't even know this thread was a thing! I'll be watching it for future advice on my current crossover project that's been haunting the main Discussion for a long time.
     
  20. Darth Osnil

    Darth Osnil Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2016
    EDIT: Accursed Board Glitch!
     
  21. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    A question for an idea that will probobly go nowhere: What female Marvel villain would be a good sidekick for Motor Ed (Kim Possible)?
     
  22. Sith-I-5

    Sith-I-5 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2002
    Don't know either...
     
  23. Mistress_Renata

    Mistress_Renata Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2000
    Well... Motor Ed looks for beautiful and not very bright. Who fits the criteria? (I'm not that up on Marvel).
     
  24. MartyAvidianus

    MartyAvidianus Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    May 14, 2017
    This is a serious problem with crossovers. Most of the time potential readers don't know the fandom and the charcters. They don't know who is who and what the heck is going on.
     
  25. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    I think many of the Grapplers* (superpowered female wrestlers) could fit.

    * http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Grapplers_(Earth-616)
     
  26. mavjade

    mavjade It's so FLUFFY! Fanfic Manager star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 10, 2005
    I think a lot of the most successful crossovers work because you only need to know one of the fandoms. For example, I love NCIS with The Sentinel crossovers. I know NCIS but I've never seen even a clip of The Sentinel. But most of the crossovers use the NCIS characters and world and then add the world of The Sentinel on top (people who have extra sensory perceptions, spirit animals, etc.). They do sometimes use a few characters from The Sentinel, but they introduce them like they are unknowns or OCs. It works really well as it's mostly NCIS with The Sentinel thrown in.

    That's not to say that x-overs where you must know all the fandoms can't be great because they absolutely can, you just limit how many people are going to get it.


    Hmm... I don't really know Kim Possible, but looking at Motor Ed's Wiki, it looks like he doesn't really have any superpowers, which makes it difficult to match him to a Marvel Villain without the sidekick greatly overpowering him. Not impossible, but it does limit your choices.
    Maybe Sin, who was the daughter of Red Skull and didn't have any superpowers (at least at some points in her life) but was great at hand to hand, firearms, and explosives.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin_(Marvel_Comics)#Powers_and_abilities
     
    Gamiel likes this.