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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Books CRUCIBLE by Troy Denning: The Official Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Havac , Jun 13, 2013.

  1. Chewbacca89

    Chewbacca89 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2012
    That's barely anything...
     
  2. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    What are you looking for?
     
  3. LivingJediDream

    LivingJediDream Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2010
    So in this Star Wars Action News interview, Denning points out that due to his handwriting, the acknowledgements in Crucible thank a "Dave Eidoni for his thoughts regarding Monoliths." It's on the Amazon preview. lolololol
     
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  4. Chewbacca89

    Chewbacca89 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2012
    An actual plot summary of the whole book. Something to wet my appetite until the book comes in the mail lol.
     
  5. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004

    As can LOTF and FOTJ for that matter.
     
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  6. JStepp

    JStepp Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2011
    I am 4-5 chapters in and the book is a giant facepalm. First Luke being so critical of that padawan. Nothing like Yoda, he sounds more like windu.
    Then more political stupidity. The Galactic Alliance passed a Neutrality act, making them neutral in the ongoing war between the Jedi and the Sith. I now have zero sympathy for the star wars galactic citizenry in fact I want Palpatine to rise from the dead and spiritually enslave them all.


    Seriously the owner of Tendrando Arms is being threatened he literally has an army, and he needs jedi help. And what is it with people underestimating Lando? He is one of the most well connected powerful and wealthy people in the galaxy.

    These bad corporate guys are coming off as gary stus. Is that the correct term? I've had a few beers.

    And finally they just said the jedi have to find evidence before they attack these guys but they just admitted to Han and Leias face that they sent assassins to kill them. I mean sorry but this is bad editing.
     
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  7. Darth_Garak

    Darth_Garak Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2005
    I now have this image of the GA holding up the piece of flimsi with the Neutrality Act when the Sith next show up. And much like Cersei Lannister, they go "You think a piece of paper is going to protect you" and then they laugh and kill everyone in sight. Do they honestly believe the Sith will give a frak about this thing?

    Or the Sith abide by it until they kill all the Jedi and THEN they kill the GA (which will scream for Jedi help but won't get any). Gods, Krayt probably in tears from all the laughing by now.
     
  8. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Reminds me of the Vong all over again.
     
  9. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006

    The problem suffered by writers is that they forgot that the New Republic and Galactic Alliance were supposed to have been cleared of corruption and self interest by Mon Mothma and Admiral Ackbar (Fey'lya to me was the only representative of self-interest but he's Bothan, they're all like that). Add to that, they made Cal Omas from a Jedi ally to their adversary, stuck in Daala, removed the maniac in a coup, then replaced her with newly made senators and along comes Abeloth. Seriously, the writers are making the galactic leadership into incompetent bumbs.

    If Mon Mothma hadn't been removed like she was, I didn't really see Leia being the leader of the New Republic to me it was always Mon Mothma and Admiral Ackbar to lead.
     
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  10. JStepp

    JStepp Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Besides that the Galactic Alliance Government itself was attacked by the Sith!!! The Sith have already declared war on the GA this is the Yuuzhan Vong stupidity all over again. In reality the citizens and even the politicians of the GA would be outraged that the Sith penetrated and took over the GA government. The GA is a massive superpower no way would it allow its self to be so humiliated.
    At least the Jedi no longer serve the GA. But why aren't they on Ossus? Why are they on some random planet?

    Ugh this book makes my head hurt.
     
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  11. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006

    The GA is full of morons and newbies from worlds that just overthrew their slaving masters with no idea how to run themselves. If the Vong attacked again or heck even the Empire attacked, they probably do the same thing.
     
  12. JStepp

    JStepp Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Yeah basically the authors are proving the sith right. To bad Caedus didn't succeed the GA would be a lot better off.
     
  13. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Its a typical Del Rey sub-plot they use, its been a recurring plot device used to slow down the heroes since the NJO started. Well, its not that original a fictional plot either, but its getting really tiresome by now. What's really irksome is that we didn't even really need to hear about GA politics in this novel, the entire thing could have taken place in that... um, was it a nebula or asteroid field or someplace dangerous, the book was so boring I've forgotten already. Anyway, we still got stuck hearing about how stupid the GA is.

    If the Sith attacked, they would probably blame the Jedi for getting the GA "involved". Then the GA would probably try to arrest Luke (again). Was Dorvan even mentioned? He was supposed to be an improvement after Daala and Abeloth, but then a bag of potato chips would be an improvement. I wouldn't be surprised if its a sub-plot in Sword of the Jedi or whatever comes next. Its stupid, but its also typical for the novels.

    The Vong are attacking? Its just Jedi lies. The Vong are really a threat? Its the Jedi's fault for getting them angry. The Vong have nearly won the war? Its the Jedi fault for not stopping them. Just replace Vong with the current villain and those lines have appeared in most novels since Vector Prime. I think that was part of the excuse for kicking Luke off Coruscant in Outcast too I think (blaming him for Caedus and/or not stopping him fast enough).

    Though really its because the novels are too lazy to come up with more villains or more plots to fill their nine-book long wastes of paper and ink, so they just keep making the galactic government the villain again and again. During the prequel and OT era its not so bad as they're fighting Palpatine then, but the New Republic government is supposed to be the government that the Rebellion and people like Leia built up, so its really sad to see it coming to this. Not surprising by now, but still disappointing. But just fighting external threats isn't enough to slow down the heroes, so they have to fight their own government again and again too. They're not even ripping off the prequels at the moment (unlike LotF).

    The prequels had problems, but at least we saw a pretty close relationship between the Republic and the Jedi Order. The post-NJO novels seems intent on pitting them against each other again and again (probably because the Imperial Remnant isn't a big enough villain for copied plots from the prequels). If Luke's retirement sticks, that'll be nice, but I half expect Jaina or whoever else is left in charge to fail until Luke comes in to save the day again. While I like Luke, it would be nice to see someone else be capable of saving the day. That was partially the point of TUF's finale with Jacen and Onimi, but we've had 18 books demolish that idea ever since. Well, Jaina killed her own brother, but that's not exactly a victory, as even in this book, that failure still haunts everyone.
     
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  14. LarryG

    LarryG Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012

    You said this earlier, kind of depressed about Mirta and Vestara.

    Savara = Vestara. Yea, the one that made it possible for 28,000 deaths. I'm beyond depressed. Character with great potential blown to hell. Someone wanted to make sure redemption could not happen.
     
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  15. Darth Xalfrea

    Darth Xalfrea Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2013
    *1 page of comments later*

    ...Yeah, so I was saying. Declaration of Worst EU Book Ever in 3...2...1...
     
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  16. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Loving Tyrant of SWTV, Lit, & Collecting star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Well, I happen to like most of Denning's stuff, and from what I'm hearing I'll like this when I get the paperback in a year. I'm just like that. [face_peace]
     
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  17. Grey1

    Grey1 Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2000
    All this talk of neutrality in the "war" between two small groups is over my head. I don't get it. You have a government that says it has no opinion on a fight between two minorities. Okay. One of those minorities is basically a world-saving NGO. Okay. But the other wants to enslave the galaxy. It's like a government declaring neutrality when it comes to a fight between a neighbourhood watch and a group of domestic conspirators.

    It's as if the Republic is acknowledging the Sith and the Jedi as governments. And, yes, i know, there's precedence of declaring the Mandalorians a galactic super power, or having a crime lord's group like Black Sun or Jabba's gang or Karrde's gang as a galactic super power. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of "affiliations" as they are presented in RPGs, just like everyone is a bounty hunter because that's one of the number one jobs/destinies in the SW galaxy. Because Empire Strikes Back.
     
  18. JStepp

    JStepp Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2011

    The GA is literally turning its back on a religious war within its borders that has even resulted in mass violence on its capital. Its like if the Mormons and the Jews (just an example) fought a holy war with each other that included a gunfight street battle in Washington D.C. and the United States government declared itself neutral. US Gov would look like a joke, and thats what the GA is.

    Also Vestera's murder of 30,000 people was pretty ridiculous. Unless they pull another kyp durron where everyone conveniently forgets about the characters mass murder of innocents then there is no way she is being redeemed.

    Also the statement that 30,000 people was the single largest loss of life since the Yuuzhan Vong War. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Have they already forgotten about the recent GA-Confederation civil war? Or the Swarm War? A star destroyer alone carries around 30,000 people, that is not a huge number in Star Wars.
     
  19. Heat

    Heat Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2006
    I'm just into the 7th chapter now. Only two things I hated so far:
    1) Luke having Seha fire live shots at a Jedi trainee just to make him lose his temper.
    2) Vestara being responsible for 28k deaths.... just like that.

    Please tell me it gets better!

    Lando didn't last long at Kessel, did he?
     
  20. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 15, 2006
    Haha, quoted for truth. Remember this battle in Fury? Centerpoint wiped out most of the Galactic Alliance Second Fleet.

    The Dominion was a Super Star Destroyer that was destroyed at Roche in Invincible. Apparently Behind the Magic asserts that a Super Star Destroyer is crewed by nearly 300,000 individuals.

    Those examples took me two minutes each to find. I'm sure the list could go on and on.
     
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  21. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Trying to find this mass murder scene in Amazon's Look Inside! preview. No luck, but I'm glad to see we're continuing to peddle this revisionist history:

    "After Jacen's capture and torture during the war against the Yuuzhan Vong, Jacen had begun a long, slow fall to the dark side, which eventually ended with his sister, Jaina, having to hunt down and kill her own brother."

    It's so easy to scapegoat the NJO for something that had nothing to do with the NJO.
     
  22. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004

    Well LOTF itself seemed to have forgotten about it for the most part [face_tee_hee]
     
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  23. Reveen

    Reveen Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 2012
    30,000 people? Soooo... anybody we should actually care about? Are we meant to assume they were all elderly nuns, orphaned puppies, and cops one day from retirement? Because Luke himself has killed alot more faceless, pointless extras than that.

    It's like Denning almost got it. He had a brief moment of clarity and realized that the character's original Moral Even Horizon was kind of disingenuous bullcrap. But it faded immediately and he just said"Whelp. Better make her more evil! Can't have anything complex or interesting, can we?"

    Edit: I checked, and the only named victim I could find is some random miner dude who was cheating on his wife. PATHOS!
     
  24. JediMara77

    JediMara77 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2004

    That was one of the info dumps I hated. So many of them throughout this book. And most of them complete retcons/revisions.
     
  25. newdawn12

    newdawn12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Do you think he'll be writing more Star Wars books?