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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Books CRUCIBLE by Troy Denning: The Official Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Havac , Jun 13, 2013.

  1. JStepp

    JStepp Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2011

    28,000 of Lando's miners. She sabotaged a factory.
     
  2. LivingJediDream

    LivingJediDream Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2010
    At this point, I'm willing to believe that Troy Denning really believes that Jacen refusing Sekot's military aid was evil. Redemption is a waste of time and evil because it is good men doing nothing and thus letting evil triumph! Luke knows what's up and doesn't tolerate that bleeding heart evil.

    Luke was also slowly turning to the dark side after Vader cut off his hand, culminating in him wising up in Dark Empire. Return of the Jedi was totally setting up Dark Empire.
     
  3. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Vestara is a Sith, I don't think she would care about people's life unless they are useful to her.
     
  4. JediMara77

    JediMara77 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2004

    According to Troy Denning, at least. Under Allston (and Golden--to an extent) she seemed to be on the road to redemption. And then Denning decided that wasn't allowed.
     
  5. The_Forgotten_Jedi

    The_Forgotten_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2010
    This book was utterly... average. Had some bad moments, had some good moments, but mostly it was just average. But Denning did one thing I can't forgive. He killed

    Luewet Wuul, apparently the only decent senator in the galaxy at the moment. And for what reason? I honestly don't know. Maybe having Vestera kill 28,000 unnamed individuals wasn't enough for Denning to destroy any notion of redemption for her. He had to add to it by having her kill (off page) Luewet and most of his staff, and everyone just goes "oh, that's sad" and then moves on without mentioning him again. Great job Denning, kill off a cool character to butcher another one. Now I really understand why some people hate Denning. :mad:
     
    JackG and Gorefiend like this.
  6. newdawn12

    newdawn12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2013
    If Sword of the Jedi Comes out, how would Christie Golden handle Vestara, with the changes Denning has made?a?
     
  7. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    [face_hypnotized] Seriously?

    Really? That's... [face_dunno]

    Oh, ye gods, only one thing for it.... :_|

    It is likely a sad inevitability as Denning books sell - if only through sheer repeated notoriety.
     
  8. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    If she could not do it due to her own morality, then she is a failure as Sith.
     
  9. JediMara77

    JediMara77 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2004

    What?
     
  10. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    A real Sith would not care about morality when they are killing others.
     
  11. SHANEamazon

    SHANEamazon Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2013
    And it wasn't even a well portrayed death, it was just a mention.
     
  12. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    About 130 pages and [face_sick].
    I knew it would be rough but my lord. This is not how I want to see the Big 3.
    Stover should be the one to end their story.
     
  13. LarryG

    LarryG Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    If she could fail as a Sith but succeed as a human, wouldn't that be refreshing for a change?
     
  14. LarryG

    LarryG Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Start SOTJ with Luke waking up as if Crucible was a really long force nightmare, a fitting way of retconning Denning.
     
  15. LivingJediDream

    LivingJediDream Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Preferably Dark Nest all the way to Crucible.
     
  16. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    And you're one of the more optimist posters here!
     
  17. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Then you really won't want to hear how they discuss how to handle the trainee afterwards. "We're done training future enemies." I'm not entirely sure that's an exact quote, but something like that. And of course Jacen is the poster child for all these kinds of situations, as a reminder of their greatest failure and all that.

    And yeah, still not happy about that death. It could easily be retconned, maybe he faked his death, but... I'm not that optimistic. Not after LotF and FotJ.

    And losing interest in Vestara fast. In Conviction and Ascension there were some possibilities, but by the end of Ascension she made her choice and acted like a Sith (worse yet that no one caught on and probably never will, since its not like Nelani Dinn has been mentioned since, so its not like minor victims matter), and Apocalypse only made her worse and even more unlikable and Crucible just reinforces that. If she died now, fine, but I doubt we would see an appropriate fate like that.

    By the way, for anyone who has the book, they never bothered to follow up on that loose thread from Apocalypse did they? When Vestara fled in Ship at the end of FotJ, she was an outcast from both the Tribe and the Jedi, but Ship said there were more Sith out there, but she hasn't joined the One Sith yet obviously. The most I can remember is that in this book Vestara was plotting to get more power (probably by stealing as much as possible from the Qrephs) so she can take over Kesh. And of course the Jedi still have no idea where Kesh is either, so that's probably going to lead to more problems in the future.
     
  18. JStepp

    JStepp Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2011
    I haven't finished the book yet but there are some clues she might have joined the one sith. very subtle though,
     
  19. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Oh, that bit I've already heard about Nobody but the full context makes it quite a bit nastier still!
     
  20. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    No, in this era we already got enough humans but not enough Sith, especially menacing ones.
     
  21. AdmiralWesJanson

    AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    Yes. Do we want him to at this point? Honestly I think I'd rather Traviss back instead.
     
  22. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Thank you. I try to give the authors the benefit of the doubt but I think I might just give up on every other Denning novel after this one and I'm not at the really freaky stuff yet. My expectations weren't that high for this at all but this is worse than the ending to The Force Unleashed 2. Zahn's love for Thrawn never bothered me until I read the points of some posters on here and they do have a point (except for the Thrawn trilogy) but I will take that over what I read in Crucible. The Big 3 are 3 of my most favorite characters ever. For them to just casually get beat up twice in 130+ pages does not appeal to me. If that's the only thing to do, get rid of the author or retire the Big 3 for good. Let them retire with whatever dignity they have left. It's been one horror or other for them since TUF ended. That was the perfect end point for them. I know someone will say that the NJO began this and was dark but that was the beginning of a new era. I would expect a change from the Bantam era. Also there was hope in the NJO. I knew deep down they would win but now I have no idea how they will stop the Lost Tribe and get into the good graces of the GA before they die. The NJO was great and engaging to me but the post NJO magnified that and didn't stop. Mirta's characterization hasn't bothered me that much yet but wish things would have gone differently. Who knows the rest of the book might surprise me? Still holding out hope but not holding my breath. I never got onto the band-wagon for Stover to write the last Big 3 story but I will now.
     
    Zeta1127 and HanSolo29 like this.
  23. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999

    Come on, you know that's a bad idea!


    MODified: I removed the meme because we are honestly not big fans of using the word "retarded" as a negative descriptive.

    I have altered your post. Pray I don't alter it any further.
     
  24. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I second the call for Traviss to return and replace Denning for good.
     
  25. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    FS,

    Reading this thread and considering what the info does, when combined with what Apocalypse did, it's very hard for me not to conclude that DR is out to screw over what DHC set up in Legacy. It's as if they can't accept a comic company took the lead so they must wreck it.

    Why do I conclude this? Because Legacy's set-up had a united GA-Jedi front, there was the clear indication that whatever difficulties there may have been in the time of the Vong invasion and the aftermath, they did return to the system of old where the Jedi backed the GA and that support was reciprocated. Yet how can I see that as a possibility when we have Krayt turning up decades earlier than he should be and the GA declaring "neutrality" in the Jedi-Sith conflict?

    I'm now having to look at the KE and DOTJ collaborations as rare one-offs that are the exception to the rule!

    EDIT: Actually, why not? May as well have someone who has a declared aim of depicting the Jedi as evil while in love with manly Mandos, it'd be at least more honest than Denning's deceitful dreck.
     
    GrandMasterKatarn likes this.